Curse

Antithesis · Jun 01, 2007, 02:08 AM // 02:08

Quote:

Originally Posted by CaptCarnage

What's a good set up for skills for a Me/?

Me/Mo - Protective Spirit, Spirit Bond, Balthazar's Spirit, Essence Bond, Life Attunement, Vital Blessing. For the elite, Illusionary Weapon + Images of Remorse / Conjure Phantasm / Phantom Pain and take a Scythe with +20 enchant to hit all 3 Knights. Or go with Arcane Echo + Shield of Judgment.

Energy denial through Sympathetic Visage / Ancestor's Visage / Spirit Shackles + Mind Wrack is probably not a good option because you want the 60+ hits from Furious Axe and Triple Chop to fuel the Spirit Bond heals, at any AL in HM.

Me/N running max AL, Physical Resistance, Spiteful Spirit and Insidious Parasite is possible with the Life Barrier + Life Bond setup on http://www.guildwarsguru.com/forum/s...2&postcount=91, though i'd stick with the easier Me/Mo.

Hope this helps, you've got plenty of options

Abedeus · Jun 01, 2007, 06:28 AM // 06:28

Umm. Yep, you didn't understood. I took SoJ, not bonder ;p I ain't that stupid. And SoJ makes them knock down for 2 seconds, slowing down leveling up. Anyway, I'll use this guide to level up my monk to lvl 20, then farm in hard mode. Thanks anyway.
Oh, and btw. Best elites for this run for damages are Spiteful Spirit or Sandstorm. Best for keeping up your health at 900-1000 points are Vengeful was Khanhei and Healing Hands (propably with Blessed Aura). Btw, how much Prot I need to have, so my Spirit Bond will heal for 100+? It rarely heals over 80...
Oh, forgot about getting AoF... Gotta cap that elite soon.

Antithesis · Jun 01, 2007, 09:23 AM // 09:23

Life Attunement bond for 110+, add Aura of Faith for 155

CaptCarnage · Jun 01, 2007, 12:10 PM // 12:10

Thanks for your help Antithesis, I just got 100,000 exp towards rank 3

evil joo · Jun 04, 2007, 07:33 PM // 19:33

Thank you for taking your time and writing this article for us!! I will try it ASAP when I get home~

Avatar Exico · Jun 05, 2007, 03:40 AM // 03:40

i smell a another Farm place for golds. Awsome Guide ill remember this when i make a Dervish to get him a legendary Surivor Title.

Antithesis · Jun 05, 2007, 06:37 AM // 06:37

Happy to help

It'll probably be my only contribution to the Guild Wars community so i figured it might as well be useful

Antithesis · Jun 05, 2007, 06:47 AM // 06:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by Avatar Exico

i smell a another Farm place for golds. Awsome Guide ill remember this when i make a Dervish to get him a legendary Surivor Title.

I farm here pretty frequently for gold armor and runes which is what got me started on this run in the first place. Salvage the armor before identifying and you can double your id's for the Wisdom title. With one bonder you'll still get a decent amount of drops, with two it goes to crap but the run is safer.

Should be no problem for a Dervish, i'm looking forward to getting mine here.
The only class i haven't like so far on this run is the Paragon. Because there are no decent AoE damage elites for Para, you're limited Shield of Judgment and Healing Hands. Makes things boring but still effective

Avatar Exico · Jun 05, 2007, 02:04 PM // 14:04

Quote:

Originally Posted by Antithesis

I farm here pretty frequently for gold armor and runes which is what got me started on this run in the first place. Salvage the armor before identifying and you can double your id's for the Wisdom title. With one bonder you'll still get a decent amount of drops, with two it goes to crap but the run is safer.

Should be no problem for a Dervish, i'm looking forward to getting mine here.
The only class i haven't like so far on this run is the Paragon. Because there are no decent AoE damage elites for Para, you're limited Shield of Judgment and Healing Hands. Makes things boring but still effective

Hehe true true. the only problem with the Dervish is that you have to get it to lvl 20 which is tuff without dieing in Kam and getting through the Noob island without dieing.

I did just a quick run with one of the Gold Scrolls(Scroll of Beserkers) the Xp that was given was acutally pretty nice get 700xp a kill from the Jade which might help little more idk but it was just a run. Here is a attachment of what i got from the kills.

Covah · Jun 07, 2007, 04:03 AM // 04:03

In your warrior vid it showed you with just SoJ. Does that mean I could go W/N or W/E and only bring sandstorm or SS?

Antithesis · Jun 07, 2007, 07:31 AM // 07:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by Covah

In your warrior vid it showed you with just SoJ. Does that mean I could go W/N or W/E and only bring sandstorm or SS?

Yep but you'll be running a different bonder setup, i've mentioned it in post 91
SS works very well and takes them down quickly. Sandstorm i'm yet to try but should be quicker than SoJ.

Run 16 in Prot on your bonder with Life Barrier + Life Bond, use sup runes on the bonders where needed and take max AL.

Mo/N bonder, template code: OwQUQEn+YIGOMf4LepsTlEAA

Mo/R healing bonder, template code: OwIU0SYZVcEi8f0kgIn6AIlA

kaply · Jun 07, 2007, 12:40 PM // 12:40

An elonian can get a run to docks, then a run to LA, then do the quest to get to the spot. However at low levels you may want to bring another hero along to cast symbiosis so you can get to the 600 hp mark to trigger spirit bond. Get your HP too high and your healing can't keep up. Too low and it doesn't trigger spirit bond.

There are "better" places to get the same or better xp. The problem is the chances of you dying increases a lot. Groups of 3 at a time give you a lot of leeway for error.

Antithesis · Jun 07, 2007, 12:53 PM // 12:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by kaply

An elonian can get a run to docks, then a run to LA, then do the quest to get to the spot. However at low levels you may want to bring another hero along to cast symbiosis so you can get to the 600 hp mark to trigger spirit bond. Get your HP too high and your healing can't keep up. Too low and it doesn't trigger spirit bond.

How does an Elonian get off Istan without completing The Time is Nigh?!? You can get a ferry to Consulate Docks, but Mhenlo doesn't grant the Kaineng and Lion's Arch quests until it's complete. If you try to map-jump to LA or KC, a message pops up saying the party has members who can not travel there... If it can be done that's great, but a bit of proof would be handy. Will save me some time with my Dervish

You can use SB at any HP, 600HP is a myth. SB triggers on a 55 - SoA 55 at lvl16 with only 25HP. SB fires off for consistent 84 heals...max damage taken is 2HP per hit with PS up, 0HP with SoA or SH + PS.
SB also triggers at max AL, high HP and max Prot bonds - 2000HP / AL110 with Life Bond and Life Barrier bonder. SB fires off for consistent 155 heals...max damage hit is 27HP.
If SB was going to fail it'd fail in either of these two scenarios...myth debunked.

And BS to having too many hitpoints for healing to keep up. The more HP you have, the easier the run and SB does an admirable job. With two bonders you run with over 2000HP and barely take a scratch...watch the vids in the OP. Even with one bonder and 1200HP it's a cakewalk, SB more than keeps up with the damage.
Hint: Life Attunement - your heals are for 110+. Toss in Aura of Faith and your heals are up to 155.

Quote:

Originally Posted by kaply

There are "better" places to get the same or better xp. The problem is the chances of you dying increases a lot.

Hence the thread...it's called "the safe, easy and quick way..." If it takes longer than 15 hours from character creation, or 8 hours from level 20 to hit Legendary Survivor, it's not quicker. I'm sure there are better places, but this is very easy to get to from any campaign. And this is incredibly safe...better XP counts for nothing if you die. And finally, with max AL and a Life Bond / Life Barrier bonder, it can be done with any class...so toss flexible in there as well

kaply · Jun 07, 2007, 10:12 PM // 22:12

If someone else has that quest they can take you along (ferry you) to LA.

Spirit bond only works if you take over 60 damage. If you have protective spirit up you need 600 hp in order to take 60 damage (600 x10% = 60 damage). I'm only going by the spell text, it does say if the target takes over 60 damage.

Suppose you run 2000 hps, with protective spirit you're at 200 damage a hit. Assume every hit you take is max, even with life attunement your heals will only get to the 120, or 150 range. You'll need to supplement extra healing in order for spirit bond to keep up.

Antithesis · Jun 07, 2007, 11:09 PM // 23:09

Quote:

Originally Posted by kaply

Spirit bond only works if you take over 60 damage. If you have protective spirit up you need 600 hp in order to take 60 damage (600 x10% = 60 damage).

You're wrong about SB, watch the vids, it'll trigger on a 25HP 55 taking 0 damage. It seems that if an attack was going to do over 60 before damage reduction, it'll trigger SB. You need to take into consideration the +XX damage from Triple Chop and Furious Axe - that appears to be the trigger.
You'd also think PS doesn't help at 2000HP, but it does. These buggers are nasty with min AL in HM without PS - they'll hit for 250+.

Quote:

Originally Posted by kaply

Suppose you run 2000 hps, with protective spirit you're at 200 damage a hit. Assume every hit you take is max, even with life attunement your heals will only get to the 120, or 150 range. You'll need to supplement extra healing in order for spirit bond to keep up.

Watch this video. Only Spirit Bond + Life Attunement is used for 110 heals. Easily replicated and safer with the updated single bonder with Symbiosis giving you 1200HP and a theoretical damage of 120 per hit. Watch the difference between having PS and SB up vs down - SB easily handles damage from up to 6 Jade Knights. The bonder provides only +1 HP pip through Succor which does diddly squat - it's there for the +1 energy pip. A second healing bonder is entirely optional and is simply a extra-comfy super-fluffy heated security blanket.

To try to replicate your theory, take two bonders so you can run over 2000HP (2800 in this case), stand there naked and do nothing but cast PS and SB in an attempt to take 200HP+ per hit. Spirit Bond + Life Attunement + Aura of Faith + Life Barrier (the usual 2 bonder setup) works like a charm healing for 178, the biggest hit taken was 128.

The extra healing from the second bonder does make a difference, but not as much as Life Barrier. So let's try that again with no +health pips and take Life Barrier out. I subbed the healing bonds with duds like Strength of Honor, Holy Veil and Live Vicariously to boost HP to 2800. Max hit was 256, SB heals for 187...you're hurt true, but still alive! The HP boost from Symbiosis is simply too large to overcome before the Knights die from the smite bonds so Spirit Bond is enough even in an extreme environment. Toss Life Barrier back in with its 52% damage reduction and the run becomes a Sunday drive - max hit was 130, SB heals for 187, smite bonds return max damage...you do the math.

In the end you're not standing there naked with nothing but your wang in your hand so "suppose" and "assume" mean nothing. You wear armour to reduce damage below theoretical maximums, Spirit Bond + Life Attunement + Aura of Faith keeps you well and truly alive, Symbiosis gives a massive HP buffer making things much easier, an optional second healing bonder further improves your survivability, Life Barrier reduces damage received by 52% while Holy Wrath and Retribution wipe the floor with the Knights by returning max damage.

Quote:

Originally Posted by kaply

I'm only going by the spell text, it does say if the target takes over 60 damage.

Less theory, more practice...the proof is in the doing, not the reading

kaply · Jun 08, 2007, 06:11 AM // 06:11

If your character has less than 600 hps and has PS up, then SB will not trigger. That's all I was referring to.

I had already forgotten about life barrier in the equation because it seemed redundant with PS in a sub 1000 HP environment. I had forgotten to try it when using symbiosis (actually I don't think I even have the spell for my heros to use).

One other thing is that the use of symbiosis really isn't necessary once your main character can reach the target of ~600 hps. Retribution and Holy Wrath are almost at max return when you take around 60 damage. It also doesn't become any safer with that much more hps since it's just more damage you'd have to heal. I only used that in the early stages of grinding when my dervs were level ~5.

Antithesis · Jun 08, 2007, 06:56 AM // 06:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by kaply

If your character has less than 600 hps and has PS up, then SB will not trigger. That's all I was referring to.

Yes it will, see previous post. SB triggers on a 55 - SoA 55 at lvl16 with only 25HP. Watch the floaties - PS is up, dmg taken is 0, SB triggers for 84.

Quote:

Originally Posted by kaply

It also doesn't become any safer with that much more hps since it's just more damage you'd have to heal.

It's much safer with 2000HP than 600HP. Let's go to the videotape! Your health barely budges at 1200+ and 2000+, with 600 you can easily drop to 50% when SB is down for a second or two. There are no problems getting back to max HP with 10 x 110 to 187 heals every 2 secs from SB. Furthermore, you've got plenty of health in the bank in case of mis-casts or lag, at 600 it's more difficult to control. If you recast SB too early, miss an SB cast or lag for a few seconds you could easily wind up dead. There are posts in this thread about exactly that happening. The solution is Symbiosis and high HP.

I'm not trying to ride your back but i'd suggest you look at the evidence before making ill-informed conclusions. In your defence, HP numbers are hard to see on YouTube - if it could display at 640x480, the numbers would be clear as day. The simple answer is higher HP = easier. Don't believe it, try for yourself instead of dismissing based on assumption and theory.

On the flipside you're right, it can be done at 600 with relative ease as long as you're familiar with a Spirit Bond build. That was my original setup which is why there are so many optional skills. It can also be done solo with a 55, however if you miss just one PS cast your title is gone. Different people have different comfort levels - because you can't afford to die some are happier with a huge margin of error, others are happy with just enough. If it works for you at 600 then we're both happy

ibex333 · Jun 09, 2007, 05:50 PM // 17:50

Can someone post a safe ritualist build for this?

I am currently doing this with a 105 hp Rt/Mo build...

VwK
PS
SH
SoA
Mend
Balth
VW
WoW

Build: OAOj4gPaIPyDRS94uuSsYEvMGA

Unfortunately it's not "safe" enough.... Only luck and extreme paranoia kept me alive up till now. In some rare cases SH or SoA don't recharge fast enough if I cant them at a wrong time... At that point the jades spike like crazy even under bonds and PS. Bonds don't seem to reduce the dmg at all. Maybe I should do 105hp?

Today I was kinda tired and I cast SH at a wrong time so it didn't recharge fast enough, and VwK wasn't ready either. At that point 6 hits got me to about 10% of my life. Another second, and I'd loose the title I was working on for months. Good thing I got lucky and VwK recharged.

Ataneruo · Jun 09, 2007, 06:30 PM // 18:30

I used to think the Survivor title was cool, and was looking for tips to keep my Indomitable Survivor Dervish alive longer with more XP gain. Then I read this and discovered you can get Legendary Survivor in under 10 hours. Now I consider Survivor a pretty sucky title track.

Marverick · Jun 09, 2007, 06:38 PM // 18:38

Go /Me for Physical Resistance? -75% damage from Life Bond + Barrier and Physical Resistance should reduce damage to a minimal. Use Weapon of Warding to cover VmK's downtime. Maybe Aecho -> VmK -> VmK -> VmK is enough to kill them in one run.