Curse

Queto · May 27, 2007, 08:21 PM // 20:21

Crap, I died in the Zen Daijun mission with a lvl 15 necro

Starting again I guess

Edit: Should've bought some new armor though, beginner armor wasn't that good an idea

Antithesis · May 29, 2007, 09:52 AM // 09:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by kiloae

if using a warrior for this run, do you keep the 2 hero monk builds the same as mentioned in the original guide?

I've updated the second bonder to give it significantly more usefulness....an additional 1100HP

So yeah, it might be worth taking. Only takes an extra few seconds to setup a run.

Abnaxus · May 29, 2007, 10:44 AM // 10:44

Yesterday I got LS on my new ranger, thx for the idea which is good, but I used a different setup which I think is quicker and more reliable for all characters which are not Mo/N or N/Mo and cannot use SS.

I used this:

Survivor (R/Mo)
Balthazar Spirit
Essence Bond
Protective Spirit
Spirit Bond
Healing Hands [E]
12 healing, 12 protection, 25AL, 510+30hp, any gear with +30hp and 20% enchant

Dunkoro
Retribution
Holy Wrath
Life Attunement
Aura of Faith [E]
16 smiting, 14 protection, 9 divine (superior runes for smiting divine and protection), 20% enchant gear.

The basic idea is to use Life Attunement on Dunkoro, which can use superior protection rune. Aura of Faith increases the healing, for a total of +88%, and lasts 60+12 secs, more than enough to complete the farm.

The Survivor will proceed as normal, but just after PS and SB will use Healing Hands. At 12 healing, he will receive 29hp+88% = 54hp every hit, compensating the loss of 54hp of every hit. This for 12 secs with a +20% enchant gear, and 12 secs are enough to kill brotherhood warriors with retribution and holy wrath.

In this way, Healing Hands will work as a backup healing that
1. compensates any loss of health in the small time between SB cast, and
2. compensates any possible mistake can occur while fighting.

Life Barrier is useless, you don't need to reduce damage, any damage reduction will decrease the speed at which holy wrath and retribution kill, and the possibility of SB to trigger.

The trip lasts 2 mins, I used adventurer scroll (because sometimes berserker will finish before you kill the 2nd group and you need another) and gives you 2.700xp.
This means 81.000xp per hour, 22hrs and 88k in scrolls to go from level 1 to 3 survivor.

Antithesis · May 29, 2007, 12:08 PM // 12:08

Thanks for the feedback and the Healing Hands / Aura of Faith suggestion, your build is proof that the 600 + Smite bonder is a very malleable framework - you only 6 skills on two party members for it to work for any Mo/X or X/Mo class. The smite bonds will drop anything pretty quickly so you might as well keep yourself alive!

I've added your suggestions as a variant of the Survivor + Smite bonder. I've also tried out and added Symbiosis from your first post in the thread - it creates a massive HP boost of between 670 and 1200+ HP

drupal · May 30, 2007, 08:27 PM // 20:27

Finally got it, now I can play the game ^^

MercenaryKnight · May 31, 2007, 12:49 AM // 00:49

Just wondering, I can't tell if it'd be easier to use full armor or no armor for legendary survivor on my paragon. Main reason is, with full armor you take more hits, but more armor means your health drops lower because not every hit is above 60 except their special attack skills. But on the other hand low armor means if you screw up spirit bond a few times you could die in a few seconds.

I normally wouldn't care about dying but with this character I don't intend/ to remake it if he dies so I want to get it with basically no chance of death.

So what would be your preferences/ ideas? Buy an elite monk tome and buy the healing hands elite while using full armor?

Antithesis · May 31, 2007, 01:36 AM // 01:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by MercenaryKnight

So what would be your preferences/ ideas? Buy an elite monk tome and buy the healing hands elite while using full armor?

Before level 20, take low level armor for the run. After level 20 and in Hard Mode, it doesn't really matter. Low level armor is better, but it ultimately depends on your comfort level. eg AL50 +20 vs Physical on a Wammo felt balanced for damage received vs healed vs returned. If you find it comfortable running high AL after 5-10 runs, try dropping down to Kamadan or starter armor and see how that feels.

The Captain Safety-Pants version is to take two bonders, Healing Hands, a high AL, Symbiosis and use Hunter's scrolls. The only questionable skill when running high AL is Life Barrier - i like it, others don't. With 1900HP it's not really going to matter too much - the Knights will die well before you do no matter what your AL. Stay within Symbiosis' area of effect and you won't have any problems.

MercenaryKnight · May 31, 2007, 02:03 AM // 02:03

So then what would be the build for the second bonder? Max healing + symbiosis att (not sure if it's bm/ ws) mending, watchful spirit, what else? Also, for the symbiosis high hp version do I need prot spirit? Seems like it'd be wasteful to bother since my damage would cap at what 190. For that variant I should just need spirit bond right?

Antithesis · May 31, 2007, 03:30 AM // 03:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by MercenaryKnight

So then what would be the build for the second bonder? Max healing + symbiosis att (not sure if it's bm/ ws) mending, watchful spirit, what else? Also, for the symbiosis high hp version do I need prot spirit? Seems like it'd be wasteful to bother since my damage would cap at what 190. For that variant I should just need spirit bond right?

I use Mending, Watchful Spirit, Succor, Serpent's Quickness (to speed up recast time of...) Symbiosis, Blessed Signet and Aura of Faith. The template codes have been updated in the first post, just copy them for the bonders and adapt to your own needs.

Can't say i've tried yet without PS but i'd take it just in case you wander out of Symbiosis.

MercenaryKnight · May 31, 2007, 04:52 AM // 04:52

Yeah, I noticed it is needed. Since I got hit by like 270+ damage at a time or another. I am tempted to go with less armor but I notice it's not a good idea with high health because the spirit bond wouldn't do enough to out heal it.

I am a bit lazy to use the aura of faith enchantment but I notice I do just find without it.

I just spam reversal of fortune along with the other monk enchants and notice the lowest I drop is about 800hp and that's when they die. Though I admit to scaring myself senseless when I was running back to town and ran out of symbiosis range and saw my health drop to 240 lol. I have a feeling if I do die it'd be running back to town and running out of the symbiosis range.

Just curious, but what was the breakpoint for life barrier to still keep the triple chop/ furious axe hits above 60 for max armor on a paragon?

Antithesis · May 31, 2007, 07:30 AM // 07:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by MercenaryKnight

Just curious, but what was the breakpoint for life barrier to still keep the triple chop/ furious axe hits above 60 for max armor on a paragon?

As an experiment, i loaded up the following setup -

1. 110AL W/Mo (Stalwart Elite Plate for 80 +20 +10 vs Phys), Sup Absorb on chest, -2 while enchanted shield, about 2200 HP with all bonds up + Signet of Stamina. Ran Life Attunement, Essence Bond and Balthazar's Spirit enchants. Then cast only Protective Spirit and Spirit Bond, no attacks, no elites.
2. Smite Bonder - 16 in Prot, running Holy Wrath, Retribution, Life Barrier, Life Bond, Blood Ritual, Blessed Signet and Signet of Devotion. 52% damage reduction with Life Barrier. Life Bond redirects 50% damage to the monk, reduced by 32.
3. Healing Bonder - 13 in Healing, 12 in Beast Mastery, bonds were Aura of Faith, Mending, Watchful Spirit and Succor. Blessed Signet, Serpent's Quickness and Symbiosis.

Results -

1. Triple Chop and Furious Axe triggered Spirit Bond at AL110 for heals of 155 on hits as low as 15...

No BS, i can upload a video. Max dmg hit received was 27.
2. Health never dropped by more than 50 HP. I stopped casting PS and SB and damage barely registered.
3. The smite bonder received ZERO damage despite having up to 32 damage directed at it.
4. Returned damage via smite bonds was much, much lower, but it still did the job.

Conclusions -

1. If Triple Chop and Furious Axe were going to hit for 60+ before damage reduction from Life Barrier and Life Bond, they will trigger Spirit Bond.
2. Spirit Bond is still effective at AL110 with 52% dmg reduction and 50% dmg redirection.
3. Given Life Bond did not drop the smiter's health on 200+ hits and no hit registered over 27 - all hits did less than 60 damage. This is under the threshold for Spirit Bond, yet it still triggers.
4. Low AL and less damage reduction kills faster than high AL and high damage reduction.

I think it's safe to say that if the Spirit Bond, Life Barrier + Life Bond + Symbiosis setup works at AL110, albeit killing slower and taking longer than AL5, an AL80 Paragon can do this no sweat

A Warrior in AL110 +40 from Dolyak's +16 shield will still get carved for consistent hits over 60 from FA and TC with no bonders. Even with LB+LB, SB triggers on hits of 15, so your breakpoint is sky high.
At AL45 to 60, it's a walk in the park particularly with Life Barrier up - it's much safer, you hardly notice any speed difference between AL45 and AL5, and a run with Berserker's Scrolls can still be easily done.

With Life Bond and max AL, Protective Spirit and Spirit Bond are not needed thus opening the run to any class.
You still need Protective Spirit and Spirit Bond at low AL, but Life Bond and max AL opens the door for a wider range of sub-classes. With no monk secondary and mid to max AL, this is still a highly survivable run with this two bonder setup. Don't try it with low AL, you'll wipe your bonder. The bonder will take some hits at mid AL which is easily cleaned up with Sig of Dev. The smite bonds will do less damage so take attack skills, leech health or +armor skills and you'll kill them well before they kill you.
A 55AL Warrior can do it easy as can a 45AL Necro with only Spiteful Spirit on the bar - health drops to 50% while in Symbiosis' aoe, but you still have about 600HP - 700HP in the bank.

Better to go with low AL X/Mo or Mo/X running Protective Spirit and Spirit Bond...but it still works for non-monk classes.

mr_groovy · May 31, 2007, 09:43 AM // 09:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by drupal

Finally got it, now I can play the game ^^

Lol actually saw you ig doing that

I was the necro doing the same thing

650K and counting, doing some Kurzick Quests atm, because doing this for an hour or 2 pretty much numbs you

Antithesis · May 31, 2007, 10:14 AM // 10:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by mr_groovy

Lol actually saw you ig doing that

I was the necro doing the same thing

650K and counting, doing some Kurzick Quests atm, because doing this for an hour or 2 pretty much numbs you

No arguments there...boring as batshit but will get you the title quickly, so you can move on to bigger and better things

drupal · May 31, 2007, 03:48 PM // 15:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by mr_groovy

Lol actually saw you ig doing that

I was the necro doing the same thing

650K and counting, doing some Kurzick Quests atm, because doing this for an hour or 2 pretty much numbs you

I know what you mean ^^

Abedeus · May 31, 2007, 05:48 PM // 17:48

Great build, gotta admit that. BUT!
I had lvl 17 rit, then I found this topic. Okay, I've got lvl 18 tahlkora, let's give it a try...
...5 hours later I have 254k exp without deaths. You rock. Okay, I make a monk.
1st hour - Not bad, 5 lvls, got elite tome.
2nd hour - Still good, mision took mi a little time, lvl 8
3rd hour - Yay, Zen Daijun! Level 13
4th hour - I'm farming, it's hard but it works! Im lvl 14,5 now!
30 minutes later - Let's try SoJ + Brambles.. oh, spirit dies after 76 seconds? I can make two groups at one time!
Five minutes later - Yay, first group dead, spirit isn't dying... lets go!
10 seconds later - W...what the... 100 hp?! What the f... NOOO!!! (You have died 1 time)
....Yeah. Shield of Judgment isn't leet if your monk bonder isn't lvl 20, there are too few attribute points. But my rit is still fine, I guess he's kinda invincible. I can still level up monk and use him to farm...

hodjeur · May 31, 2007, 07:21 PM // 19:21

Just one question, why not just bring an ordinary 55 hp monk ? It works just fine with mine.

Bruce Leeroy · May 31, 2007, 09:06 PM // 21:06

Quote:

Originally Posted by hodjeur

Just one question, why not just bring an ordinary 55 hp monk ? It works just fine with mine.

Because lag can kill unless you have the perfect connection.

Antithesis · May 31, 2007, 10:35 PM // 22:35

Quote:

Originally Posted by Abedeus

....Yeah. Shield of Judgment isn't leet if your monk bonder isn't lvl 20, there are too few attribute points. But my rit is still fine, I guess he's kinda invincible. I can still level up monk and use him to farm...

...aah...did you run SoJ on your bonder? Not so smart...i hope i'm misreading you.

Nowhere does this say "10 foot tall and bulletproof". After 5 hours of this run you may have noticed it might present an energy challenge for the smite bonder to run SoJ

Seemed obvious to me as the smiter is running 4 bonds, has 0 energy and is flagged out of agro. Take some ownership for screwing your own pooch.

My heroes are still lvl15 and do the job just fine - there are plenty of points available for both the single and dual bonder options. IF and i emphasise IF you did take SoJ on your bonder, again...bad idea, it'd be maxed with 16 in Smite.

It sounds like you ran outside the aoe of Symbiosis. I've done it myself a few times with one bonder and ended up on 1 HP! Two bonders...shouldn't have a problem. The guide does say move your bonder and recast Symbiosis before taking on the second mob.

I've updated the guide to state that YOU take SoJ, not the bonder

Apologies for the lack of clarity and thanks for pointing it out. I've tried to highlight as many risks as i can both getting there and doing the run, but your destiny is in your own hands.

Antithesis · May 31, 2007, 10:38 PM // 22:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by hodjeur

Just one question, why not just bring an ordinary 55 hp monk ? It works just fine with mine.

I 55 here for farming but it's not recommended for survivor. One missed, late or forgotten cast of Protective Spirit, and you're toast!
Happened to me twice due to 500ms lag

CaptCarnage · Jun 01, 2007, 01:56 AM // 01:56

What's a good set up for skills for a Me/?