Curse

Sethellington · May 08, 2008, 02:45 PM // 14:45

very good job. this actually got me into thinking about remaking my sin. there are lots of viable builds now, and tomes are cheap. but grinding for rep. PAH.

Again: thumbs up

Kaleban · May 08, 2008, 03:18 PM // 15:18

I'd just like to add my two cents.

Recommend switching out Dark Escape for Mindbender. Yes it can be stripped by Dark Nightmares, but as an enchant it can last longer than Dark Escape with a shorter recharge. And the run boost is more at higher ranks and the cast speed boost helps with the SF chain.

For those who don't have huge faction with either Luxon or Kurzick, I drop out Ether Nightmare and just use Spirit of Failure and Cry of Pain. Takes a bit longer, but that extra skill slot can be used for:

Auspicious Incantation! Which is a great skill to slip in with the SF chain (use right before Arcane Echo) for a huge energy boost. With that skill you could use a hex other than Spirit of Failure, but I like to have extra energy management. My current build is:

[skill]Deadly Paradox[/skill][skill]Auspicious Incantation[/skill][skill]Arcane Echo[/skill][skill]Shadow Form[/skill][skill]Mindbender[/skill][skill]Spirit of Failure[/skill][skill]Cry of Pain[/skill][skill]Radiation Field[/skill]

XDeadboltX · May 08, 2008, 03:22 PM // 15:22

Is it possible to take out dark escape and use cupcakes for the run, like I do on ele?

Eric Clapton · May 08, 2008, 04:20 PM // 16:20

Quote:

Originally Posted by XDeadboltX

Is it possible to take out dark escape and use cupcakes for the run, like I do on ele?

That is what I currently use on my sin, but I still take dark escape for the extra boost.

snodaard · May 08, 2008, 04:42 PM // 16:42

What mods do you have on your offhand?
becouse i don't realy know what do put on

ToMeKs · May 08, 2008, 05:04 PM // 17:04

Is it better profit to farm this than by farm as smiter/600hp?

Krazi Bastid · May 08, 2008, 05:28 PM // 17:28

actually, you dont need any specific special spots to pull the enemies so they wont scatter. all you have to do is pull them so that their left side is a wall. just walk backwards hugging a wall so they their left side is hugging that wall also, then just cast away. i think its just the way enemy ai is designed.

teotuf · May 08, 2008, 08:08 PM // 20:08

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kaleban

I'd just like to add my two cents.

Recommend switching out Dark Escape for Mindbender. Yes it can be stripped by Dark Nightmares, but as an enchant it can last longer than Dark Escape with a shorter recharge. And the run boost is more at higher ranks and the cast speed boost helps with the SF chain.

For those who don't have huge faction with either Luxon or Kurzick, I drop out Ether Nightmare and just use Spirit of Failure and Cry of Pain. Takes a bit longer, but that extra skill slot can be used for:

Auspicious Incantation! Which is a great skill to slip in with the SF chain (use right before Arcane Echo) for a huge energy boost. With that skill you could use a hex other than Spirit of Failure, but I like to have extra energy management. My current build is:

[skill]Deadly Paradox[/skill][skill]Auspicious Incantation[/skill][skill]Arcane Echo[/skill][skill]Shadow Form[/skill][skill]Mindbender[/skill][skill]Spirit of Failure[/skill][skill]Cry of Pain[/skill][skill]Radiation Field[/skill]

I cannot try this personally because I dont have eotn, but this is one of the first things i told my friend to try (ether NM instead of radiation field). however, he never made it to chaos planes with this.
i don't have mindbender, but i have added auspicious to every single one of my perma shadow builds ever since rezdogg posted his combo - because its just such a good synergy! however, i finally realized that those two skills, mindbender and auspicious, while they help immensely (or seem to), is merely a luxury, not a necessity. and when time calls for more necessary skills to be put into the bar, they are the first ones to fall out.

the problem is that while the mindbender build sounds good and all in theory (and can keep up perma sf anywhere in UW), but in HM, the mountain run does not allow you to stop and cast, or else the charged blackness patrol will catch up to you. If you succeed using something different than what i have and you want to share it, post a screenshot of you making it to chaos planes, otherwise i have to mark it off as just theory.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Krazi Bastid

actually, you dont need any specific special spots to pull the enemies so they wont scatter. all you have to do is pull them so that their left side is a wall. just walk backwards hugging a wall so they their left side is hugging that wall also, then just cast away. i think its just the way enemy ai is designed.

that doesn't always work, just like holding aggro in my first pic. chokepoints are the only way to hold it 100% of the time.

N Sane OEF Marine · May 08, 2008, 09:14 PM // 21:14

OMG...with 16 Shadow Arts 6 Deadly Arts atts, chain = Deadly Paradox + Arcane Echo + Shadow Form........my third shadow form i cant achieve...most of the time Arcane Echo is still recharging.

No bosses in the area so skills will not recharge automatically if I just used the non copied Shadow Form, then eventually the run will end soon enough. Ive seen the videos of the run. Its just the timing that ruins everything. I've practiced the chaining bymyself out in an explorable area, i can keep the chain going if am lucky 3 times max, after that, always a dead spot from Arcane Echo still recharging...I use an enchant modded staff. Advice?

teotuf · May 08, 2008, 09:22 PM // 21:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by N Sane OEF Marine

OMG...with 16 Shadow Arts 6 Deadly Arts atts, chain = Deadly Paradox + Arcane Echo + Shadow Form........my third shadow form i cant achieve...most of the time Arcane Echo is still recharging.

No bosses in the area so skills will not recharge automatically if I just used the non copied Shadow Form, then eventually the run will end soon enough. Ive seen the videos of the run. Its just the timing that ruins everything. I've practiced the chaining bymyself out in an explorable area, i can keep the chain going if am lucky 3 times max, after that, always a dead spot from Arcane Echo still recharging...I use an enchant modded staff. Advice?

cast DP, arcane echo, then shadow form

now look at the recharge on shadow form, once the recharge passes the number on the lower right corner (right before it reaches the 6 oclock position), cast the echoed version. the echoed version should revert as soon as you finish casting it.

N Sane OEF Marine · May 08, 2008, 09:41 PM // 21:41

Quote:

Originally Posted by teotuf

cast DP, arcane echo, then shadow form

now look at the recharge on shadow form, once the recharge passes the number on the lower right corner (right before it reaches the 6 oclock position), cast the echoed version. the echoed version should revert as soon as you finish casting it.

...Ive been practicing that chain in an explorable area....it might be lag sometimes, because arcane echo always recharge couple of milliseconds late. Is there a video link of a good PERMA chain?

Krazi Bastid · May 08, 2008, 09:59 PM // 21:59

i dont know how exactly you pull teotuf, but the wall on left side of enemies so they dont scatter thing always works for me. once i get home ill put up a some screenies. you just have to walk backwards hugging the hell out of the wall with a slight angle as if you were mapping the area cartographer style.

Kaleban · May 08, 2008, 11:01 PM // 23:01

Quote:

Originally Posted by N Sane OEF Marine

I use an enchant modded staff. Advice?

That's the problem right there. Not the enchant mod, the HSR mod. For whatever reason I kept having the same issue, where the copied SF would revert way too late, and Arcane Echo would still be recharging.

Once I switched to a sword/focus setup with no HSR mods, the chain can easily be kept up indefinitely.

So my suggestion is to try it with a totem axe/rajazan's fervor type weapon, and an inspiration focus and see if your results change.

And teotuf, I see what you mean about stopping and casting and agree that 5 skills are a luxury when three will do. I think you answered my question, basically you get ahead of the blackness patrol before they stop at the entrance to Chaos Plains, so that you never even aggro them. For some reason, even in NM when I was using cupcakes, they always got there first, I don't know what changes in HM that would keep them from getting there before me. And without Dash on the bar there's no way to de-aggro in HM, especially those fast bastards lol.

teotuf · May 08, 2008, 11:03 PM // 23:03

Quote:

Originally Posted by Krazi Bastid

i dont know how exactly you pull teotuf, but the wall on left side of enemies so they dont scatter thing always works for me. once i get home ill put up a some screenies. you just have to walk backwards hugging the hell out of the wall with a slight angle as if you were mapping the area cartographer style.

it depends on the size of the enemy. for example in UW, if all you aggro is aatxe, then you could hug the wall, then move away from it a little bit, and that would hold them. but if you add graspings into the picture, its either grapspings will squeeze throught the little space u have between you and the wall (which aatxes can't fit), or they'll just run the other way away from you.

also, the choke points are not only the points where they won't run away from you because of takign damage, but also it is the point where you can aggro a entire room at the same tiime, instead of separating it into two different aggros. for example, in the first room, if you are at the left side wall, the right aatxes group will break, and vice versa. and if you pulled everyone from on top of the stairs, you will not be able to get all of them either.

Krazi Bastid · May 08, 2008, 11:34 PM // 23:34

i get what youre saying about the choke points part. i actually split them apart. i tried your way but i sucked at it, i spent more time pulling and killin 1 big group than if i split and killed 2 groups.

when i was saying about the pulling, you pull along the wall and stop. you dont move off the wall and put the enemies between you and the wall. you are facing the enemies, the enemies are facing you. your right side is touching the wall, their left side is touching the wall. if their left side is not touching the wall, they will break. just pull along and stop, strafe right, if you cant move, then start killing. if you moved even a tiny bit, pull back a bit more and check again.

perfect example is the reaper chamber area. aggro that whole room and then run back to that long corridor with the straight walls. drag their left side along that straight wall and they dont break.

Krazi Bastid · May 08, 2008, 11:52 PM // 23:52

sane marine, youre not having a bug or anything with arcane echo. the problem is the HSR from the staff throwing off your timing. if by chance your ORIGINAL shadowform gets an HSR, the timing for casting the echod SF is around when the recharge of the original SF gets to the bottom left corner, like around 8oclock. if you really must use a staff, you have to watch that SF recharge timer like a hawk. if it looks like its moving a bit too fast, check your SF on your effects bar. if you have around half of SF duration left when it gets close to your usual casting of the echod SF, then it got the HSR. i just use weapon sets with no hsr to make it easy.

joshuarodger · May 09, 2008, 12:04 AM // 00:04

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kaleban

That's the problem right there. Not the enchant mod, the HSR mod. For whatever reason I kept having the same issue, where the copied SF would revert way too late, and Arcane Echo would still be recharging.

Once I switched to a sword/focus setup with no HSR mods, the chain can easily be kept up indefinitely.

the problem is that you watch the recharge of your original SF and activate your echoed SF at the "little area in the corner" of the skill. therefore when you actually get the HSR on your original SF, you activate your echoed SF twice as early as you normally would. this means that, after you use your echoed SF, Arcane Echo doesn't have time to catch up with SF to do the chain properly. i had this problem a lot with my monk trying to echo Spell Breaker, while using a staff, until i figured it out.

you need to either watch the effects monitor for a more accurate idea of when to hit the echoed shadow form, or as kaleban said, use a two-handed weapon set. the second option is much easier but the HSR mod can come in handy on your other spells and speed things up. just personal preference. and in all honesty, i use a 20% enchant weapon and a shield because it can be hell to watch one skill in the effects monitor with all the other enchants, conditions, hexes, etc beginning and ending all the time. but i guess that's why you have an attribute specific off-hand.

nice job on the guide. kind of makes me want to go past level 2 with my sin. lol

EDIT: i didn't see krazi bastid's post. there went about 5 minutes of my life i can't have back.

therangereminem · May 09, 2008, 06:58 AM // 06:58

umm copuple tings wrong with the guide hes using about 4 different builds and its not all int he same run , his energy and heath are different

derkayser · May 09, 2008, 10:17 AM // 10:17

Me, in the first room aaxte always back and come

and u i see no

how do you do ?

N Sane OEF Marine · May 09, 2008, 04:33 PM // 16:33

Ty all for suggestions. I will try using a mellee weapon and shield or offhand with no HSR and update if any or no improvements