Curse

Xslash · Aug 10, 2009, 11:04 AM // 11:04

For as long as there was UWSC, there were 'tricks' or 'methods' to speed it up.
Many are listed and described below. I have sorted them by area, and have my point of view on whether they create an unnecessary risk and if they are worth doing.

You should know the Basics of UWSC because they won't be described here.

CHAMBERSIN

The First Pull
-There are 2 different methods to clearing the opening zone of the underworld.

1. Solo Pull and Kill - This requires grabbing all aggro and blocking them against a wall on your right and killing them solo.

Pros

Can leave Bladed Aatxes alive. [Saves Time]
Keeps Vale Support Back and Safe
Relies on one person for successful pulling instead of a team to block

Cons

Less Ecto [Aatxes still alive]
Many are unaware of this pull and will yell at you for pulling incorrectly
Or even worse, run in and disperse the aggro

2. Solo Pull and Group Kill - This requires the chamber to aggro the 3 groups of grasping and pulling them along a corner, with the other sin's bodyblocking the enemies for vale support to kill.

The three commonly used corners are

Corner above the left stairs
Corner above the right stairs
Right Corner underneath the Center Stairs

Each pull spot has its own advantages and disadvantages.

Pull spot 1 is the most commonly used and therefore most well known. This equates to less confusion and makes a it more consistent to clear.
This pull spot is also the easiest spot for a complete bodyblock of the enemies because there is little room for enemies to break to begin with.

Pull spot 2's advantage is that the Bladed Aaxtes that stand between the Vale Team and Chamber will be included in the initial kill, saving the Vale team Time.

Pull spot 3 allows the Bladed Aaxtes above the center stairs to be pulled and killed in the initial pull. It allows the chamber faster access into the chamber, as it is closest to the doors, and also allows vale team to skip a group of enemies.

My Opinion: Pull Spot 1, the corner above the left stairs, is the best overall initial chamber pull, not because it is the best pull, but because it is the most common and most familiar pull. When everyone knows what they are suppose to be doing, it creates less chances of fail.

The Second Pull (Clearing the Chamber)

The Right Wall Trick, or whatever you want to call it.
-This trick, as briefly explained above, is to be able to prevent the deaggro of enemies while you kill them, so that they can die all together. It is explained in detail on other threads, but here it is again briefly. Note that this works on all melee enemies in Hard Mode

After aggroing all the enemies, pull them against a wall. It can be any wall or even a cliff. However, while facing the enemies, the wall has to be on your right, or the enemy's left. Their names should stack up one above another, creating one tall tower of enemy names.
Note: You do not have to be facing the enemies, it is just commonly said to make it easier to describe which wall they have to be against.
Note: If pulled correctly, you also do not need to make one step off the wall, as stated in other guides.
Reasoning: When enemies deaggro (different from scatter), they always flee to their left. If there happens to be a wall there, they just run into the wall and stay there. They will not be attacking you, but will stay in range of your AoE.

Using the Right Wall Trick is very important to clearing the chamber in a fast and efficient time, and creates no unnecessary risks.

Right Wall Trick + Terrorweb Dryders

After aggroing all of the enemies in the Labyrinth, the optimal position to tank and spank the enemies is in the long narrow passageway in which you came from. However, the most effective method of killing the Bladed Aaxtes, Grasping Darknesses, Terrorweb Dryders, and Dying Nightmares is to kill them ALL at once.

To do this, after aggroing all of the enemies, run down the left side of the passage, pulling the ranged enemies (Terrorwebs+Nightmares) into the narrow passage. Then run around the opposite wall, and block the melee enemies along the right wall using the right wall trick. Step backwards until the melee and ranged enemies are next to each other and can be killed together.
This is also a good trick to use in UWSC, as it has no negative effects.

Funky Terrorweb Dryders

When Terrorweb Dryders are first aggro'd, they will not all start wanding you immediately. Because they are not wanding, they will not aggro correctly. They will start wanding after a few seconds, after attempting to cast all of their spells/skills on you. To counter this and save time, do not wait to aggro the Dryders last. This way, they will do all that 'funky' stuff while you are still pulling the remainder of the enemies and will act normally when you make the final pull.

Unwanted Guests

What Order to kill the Keepers?

Almost all will say kill the Vale Keeper first. The only reason not to kill this keeper first is because it does not create the shortest path to all of the keepers (because you have to run to vale AND back, whereas leaving it for last you only have to run to vale). I recommend killing this keeper first because you never know when you'll have a fast vale team or get stuck somewhere.

After that keeper, the order is not very crucial, as long as you are not walking past keepers and leaving them alive for later. Basically, whatever path works best and what is most familiar, because getting stuck slows the time down a lot more than the order you kill them.

Killing the Terrorweb Dryders with the Keepers?

For obvious reasons, kill the terrorweb dryders accompanying the Keeper in Vale.

The other dryders can be left alive, but every terrorweb dryder is opportunity for ectoplasm. Of course killing the dryders takes more time than killing just the keepers, but my advice is that: as long as Unwanted Guests is not the last quest to finish, go ahead and kill the Dryders along with the Keepers. If you notice that 8/10 quests are completed and you have 2 keepers left, start considering just killing the remaining keepers and leaving the dryders. Chances are nobody will notice the difference unless you are last to finish.

VALE TEAM

There are many builds, some faster than others, some relying on personal cons or summoning stones to complete, so the following tips/tricks may not apply.

8 Curses, 8 Curses, 8 Curses

As a A/N Vale Sin, you must have 7 Curses before cons, and 8 curses after cons. This is because 8 Curses is the breakpoint for removing 2 enchantments during Wrathful Spirits. This is because the Tortured Spirits have two cover enchantments, Illusion of Weakness and Illusion of Haste.

On the Way to Chamber

The 2 -3 Bladed Aaxtes blocking the Vale Support from entering the Labyrinth do not have to be killed. The Vale Sin can pull those to the side, and allow the vale support to run through into chamber. I prefer this method even though it loses 2-3 chances for ecto because a lot of people like to QQ if they have to wait on Restore, or if the chamber has to wait on taking unwanted, etc.

On the Way to Vale

Depending on how the chamber pulled the initial aggro, there may be 2 or 4 Bladed Aaxtes left. If only 2 Bladed Aaxtes are left, they can be killed no problem; the vale tank can stand anywhere and they won't break. However, if there are 4 Aaxtes, 2 Sides of them need to be blocked, specifically the 2 sides in which the Aaxtes can run to the Vale Support. 1 side is a wall, the other is the vale sin. Then all 4 can be killed at once.

Note: This is because Hard Mode enemies will switch targets if more than 3 of them are on one target

Note: Because there are 4 Bladed Aaxtes, one will stop attacking, and if that one has SS on it, the Vale Sin can wand it to make it attack again.

Clearing Vale

There are 3 groups of grasping + one small group that patrols. The group that patrols is triggered when the vale sin walks up the first set of stairs entering vale (approximately where the vale Keeper of Soul spawns). They can be all pulled at once, and blocked at any location of the vale sins liking.

Some vale teams like to leave the first group of grasping alive and avoid them, so that not all of the spirits are spawned, making it impossible to fail wrathful spirits. However, this slows down vale, and I feel it is unnecessary. It commonly creates confusion to the Vale Necromancer, and relies on timing and patrols. My belief is that any Vale team that is aware of this trick and can pull it off successfully is experienced enough to not fail Wrathful in the first place, so it is a useless trick.

Escort the Souls

Valesin - Start at the Top 3 Mindblade Spectres to minimize walking around.

Vale Support - Pinging (default: Ctrl+Shift+Space) a target will make the new souls follow you regardless of who is moving around. This makes it easier to move the new souls, and allows you to escort them sooner because you can start escorting while the vale sin is finishing the pull (and still moving). This is a good trick because it also prevents unaware people from messing with the new souls as you escort them.

A/E PERMA

Understanding Sliver Armor
Sliver armor hurts more when more enemies are attacking you, therefore it is most beneficial to damage as many enemies as possible with Sliver before killing enemies. This, of course, does not apply to enemies that can heal (Obsidian Behemoths, Smite Crawlers) and does not apply to melee enemies (Smite Crawlers) because it is hard if not impossible to control which smite crawler sliver hits against a group of these.

Other enemies, such as Terrorweb Dryders, can only heal through Aura of Restoration, and that is casting Aura of Restoration while Aura of Restoration is up. The enemy AI does not do this, and even if they did, the health gained is not important.

The Right Wall Trick Applies to A/E as well

WASTES PERMA

Death Charge vs. Shadow of Hastes
With practice, the Death Charge method is equally reliable as the shadow of haste method, with the only factor that can result in failure is lag.
Death charge is more versatile, so if you are comfortable using death charge for the quest, it allows you to do other areas, if needed.

POOLS PERMA AND MOUNTAINS PERMA

With pools and mountain, a lot of the main tips and tricks rely on the build.
Deadly Paradox, Shadow Form, GoLE, Sliver Armor, and EBSoH are of course given, but the rest of the skill bar varies. (This skills are assuming no personal cons) Below is a list of those variables and their advantages and disadvantages.

Radiation Field
-Recommended for Pools. The large group of terrorweb dryders at the monument die quickly with the mass degen from radiation field
-Not Recommended for Mountains. There are only three terrorweb dryders, so they might as well be sliver'd to death.

I am Unstoppable!
-Assuming no personal cons are used, IAU is a very beneficial skill to both Pools and Mountain builds. Though it may not create the 'fastest' Pools or Mountains ever, it makes it a lot more consistent. It eliminates cripple which can waste time, and prevents knockdowns which also slow down times.

Death Charge
-Every once in awhile, there is a bad spawn somewhere along the way through mountain. It is beneficial for every member heading up mountain to carry death charge to reduce the effects of crappy spawns. Death Charge can also be used specifically in mountain as an advantage.

By Urals Hammer
-Recommended for Mountains. The greater damage from sliver creates quicker kill of Behemoths and allows more leeway in interrupting healing springs.
-Not Recommended for Pools. The greater damage from sliver only speeds up killing the Terrorweb Queen, and the difference it makes in killing the Queen is not enough to justify a skill slot.

POOLS PERMA

Terrorweb Queen
Some, for some reason or another, feel the need to pull the Terrorweb Queen out from the Wards that are put down. However, it is much faster to just run straight into the Queen and kill it from within the Wards. From inside, there is a greater number of enemies, and along with the time saved from not having to pull the queen, allows for a faster quest completion.

MOUNTAINS PERMA

Death Charge vs Feigned Neutrality
Death Charge is by far more versatile than feigned neutrality, and allows the mountain perma to cover wastes/pits if necessary.

the Death Charge trick
There is a delay in between when you run into range of a trap, and when the trap triggers, and when the trap hits you. This can be used to your advantage. This trick is to run into the traps laid by the Behemoths, and quickly Death Charge to a Terrorweb Dryders to remove all the traps there.

Taking Quest in Aggro
Anyone who has done mountain knows that the bottom spawn sometimes spawns in range of the Obsidian Behemoth. However, in the time the reaper spawns and casts his Aura of Restoration, before attacking those bottom behemoths, the quest can be taken from him.

Basically, right when the reaper spawns, talk to him, Click Demon Assassin, and Click Accept. Those 2 should be in the same spot, so you just have to double click.
Note: There is a downtime inbetween the two dialog boxes and if you click to fast, you might click to move on accident. There are multiple ways to solve this problem.

Turn of Click to Move
Don't click too fast
Look at the sky when you talk to reaper so you don't click to move

There is a second part to taking the quest in aggro, and it involves only a select few mountain spawns. Obsidian Behemoths that spawn on the opposite side of the monument of the Reaper can be left alive if the quest is taking in aggro, because they are obstructed from the Reaper and can never hit him.

My Recommendations: After practicing taking quest in aggro, it is not difficult to pull off successfully. However, to practice, I would kill all but one behemoth on the bottom, so that even if you mess up, you can still complete the quest easily by killing that last behemoth with the help of the reaper. It's quite annoying when someone attempts this and fails and just gives up on doing their quest.

PITS PERMA

Many builds, many guides, many different tips depending on the build
There are so many different builds for pits, and each has their own tips

Death Charging up Bridge
Not only does this save the running time, it also makes certain enemies break aggro and allows less kills to be made to complete the quest

Farm During/After Quest, Not Before
This is given for every area, but it seems, especially pits, people like to farm before they do their quest. I believe this is because they are unaware of which enemies need to be killed. Watch videos or something.

Chained Souls
Ever wonder why sometimes the tortured spirits take forever to walk up to the reaper? It is because of the chained souls popups, specifically the bottom chained soul. Here is what happens: The chained soul degen'd out and is currently dead. The tortured spirits walk up towards pits. The chained soul respawns and the tortured spirits are in aggro range of the chained soul and run back down to him. While running back down, they get out of aggro range of the chained soul and walk back up pits. This cycle goes on and on until the chained soul dies. To counter this, time taking the quest while the between the time the Chained Soul is about to spawn, and when he is above half health. Another method to counter is just to kill the chained soul when he pops up.

The Back Groups
Kill the back groups, theres no reason not to. It irritates me the most when people farm other groups in pits, but then leave the back group in pits alive. They WILL randomly patrol and kill the reaper and spirits. It only takes a couple extra swings on A/D, an extra pull for A/ME, or a couple Slivers from A/E.

PLANES PERMA

Glitching the 3-Spawn Mindblades
To glitch the 3 spawn, let them patrol all the way down to the monument before aggroing. Then, take a big loop around plains, leaving from poolside, and returning to pitside, and they will be stuck against a wall. There is little harm in glitching this spawn, because even if someone went to unglitch them, you are still at plains, and can see them coming from a mile away. However, there is also little point because chances are nobody will be on plains for 4H that fast anyway, and even if they are, it won't be the last quest to finish.
Plus, thats ecto to be farmed.

Recall Solo 4H
I don't see the point unless every other perma in the group is horrible, because someone will be ready for 4H before everyone else is done. However, the method behind solo 4H is useful even if you are not soloing the quest. As the plains perma, you can wait for the bosses and dyrders to come to you instead of running out to them. This will allow you to use the solo kill method in case the other perma gets sig'd.

Tell me if any of these are unclear.

Zan Usi Quan · Aug 10, 2009, 12:15 PM // 12:15

Nice post, I'll read through it a couple of times

thanks alot

dr love · Aug 10, 2009, 01:45 PM // 13:45

thanks for taking the time to pump this out. there's some excellent explanations in there. things i knew from experience, but didn't know why it was.

i hope it makes for some better pug grps

dorin · Aug 10, 2009, 03:00 PM // 15:00

Thanks , there was some things that i didn`t know.

Quote:

Originally Posted by dbulger

i hope it makes for some better pug grps

Was hopping about that in the last 4 years .. and nothing . But I still hopping .

king_trouble · Aug 10, 2009, 04:27 PM // 16:27

Well the fact still remains that pugs, for the most part, refuse to keep an open mind and take advice from people who know thier areas better then them. If you try to give them some tips, the majority will rage at you telling they can do your area better, and in the end fail to pull off a good time (example: 14 minutes plains pop). Due to this fact pugs remain the slowest groups uwsc can offer, which isn't much of a surprising. Also you tip for going safe isn't really correct, if your pugging runs, you want to be fast and efficent when it comes to your area for the sole reasoning to cover. UWSC is not a run to farm ectos rather it's a run to obtain the end chest as quickly as possible. Farming is a right to be earned not entitled for people going in. In my opinion here are some tricks that I use.

Plains: Do not kill the extra 3 mindblades and 2 horseman when you reach the reaper spawn, only kill the rider that spawns the group of 3 and save the extra aggro till after the group of 6. Why you ask? Because the time it takes to pop plains is dependant on how fast you pop and kill the last group of 9 mindblades that spawn due to the 3-6-9 spawn behavior. Moreover, in the process of killing the mindblades you should be wanding the horseman, most people don't see the reason to this but it's pretty much straight forward. You might only do 11 - 20 damage with your staff while EBSoH is up, but 11 - 20 damage per second (more or less) over an interval of 5 minutes add up to a bit of damage. Make sure you want the horseman to the point where one wand attack will kill him and start wanding the other. In the mean time while your taking our the group of 9 mindblades you should be spreading out damage in order to keep your dps high. Once most or preferably all creatures are low on health start killing them. The reaper can handle the two horseman that you almost wanded to death so you don't need to kill them. Doing this can usually have me pull off 7 minutes pop.

Pools: Run past all the Charge Blackness, killing any of them will slow you down. If you are using death charge, use death charge when deadly paradox is up to move through the tar quicker. Once you reach the area after the queen spawn run through the 2 groups of CBS and death charge into the reaper area avoiding the group closes to the reaper. Once that is done, pull the dryders while walking backwards up the ramp onto the elevated area once they reach the cornor of where the ramp and the elevated area meet, death charge into the group of dryders and start killing them. After the reaper is pop, run to the queen while using death charge to break off any CBS that aggroed on you.

Pits: This area (unlike what the op said) is dependendant on one fact: Grouping. If group correctly you can pop the reaper by 6 minutes thus letting you have a 8 - 9 minutes pits run, since the souls will run up to every chained souls right as they die. The trick for doing this is simple. After you death charge up the bridge run to the reaper area, once you reach the hill, run towards the top group pulling everything behind you into a ball, do not run all the way up as the group of Threshers and collectors at the bottom will break off. Once the bottom area is balled up death charge to the threshers at the low end of the hill and start killing them. The collectors will ball up around you for the most part. Once you finish doing this kill the dryders and pop the reaper (you do not have to kill the two groups at the back for now). Take the quest and run to the souls holding your aggro bubble at the very edge of where the souls spawn. Hold the dryders until the souls move out of the spawning ground and pull the dryders in and start killing them. By this point you have to wait till the souls reach the 3rd incline and run up towards the reaper with an ims other than the celerity. Having not finish thier patrol the dryders will want to resume it and break much easier. Once you reach the reaper area. Hug the wall on the side the spider spawns and death charge the the group of threshers and collectors you left behind the reaper and wait for the collectors to come to you. Once that is done you can kill them and the threshers, if done right will have the back of the reaper cleared, without risking the hostile npcs to aggro the souls, spider, and reaper. The difference between a 8 and 9 minute pits in my opinion is the spawn. More collectors = easier time.

Mountains: The choice of bringing IAU is up to the person, if they feel like that CBS are no threat to them they can drop it for intensity. At this point the person can feel free to bring shadow refuge or death charge for the reasons stated by the op. The reason I prefer shadow refuge over fiegned neutrality is because you can still continue to want the behemoth and activating skills unlike fn. Look at the spawn if they are behemoth behind the reaper statue you do not need to kill them, same thing goes if they are behemoths underneath the reaper. This method takes some practice to getting used to, but it is the only current way to achieve a 5 min mtns spawn. (I have yet to have the right spawn to get this time). The steps are as follows:
1. After you are done killing your behemoths, kill the dryders in the area the reaper spawns at.
2. Once the reaper spawns, hit "v", which targets npcs and players that are friendly to the player
3. Quickly hit space and take the quest.
4. If you take the quest before the reaper cast Aura of Restauration then you have succeded if not, then enjoy clearing out the behemoths.
If you have behemoth left and you failed to take the quest the best way to clear out the behemoths are as follows.
1. Cast EBSoH where the reaper is.
2. Wand the damn behemoths.

Waste: Like plains and mountains, your damage in this area relies solely on your vanguard rank. This is one of the big three where your rank matters since higher ranks = more damage = faster times. Most pugs you will see will bring fn due to the fact that zealot's damage them alot. The fact remains that zealot's fire only damages you alot if you give it a chance. So the more damage you do the less damage you will take for zealot's. The main part that pugs freak out about is when the smite crawlers spawn with a little too much bloodlust and start killing everything. It is possible for the smite crawlers to fail the group if they spawn wrong in the right place, which is right next to the dryders. When that spawns happens it's the same as when only one spirit spawns in pits, the entire group is screwed and must either fail or resign. The choice of skills for this area is much dependend on how much damage the person can pump out. If thier ranks suck I would suggest bringing intensity in place of rad field and bring BUH, if the person ranks are good (8+ vanguard) they should bring radiation field and BUH. The main trick for waste is this, you want to have a big aggro, the bigger the better. The best place to kill the smites imo (including the ones that spawn at the king spawn) is at the T-junction where you use shadow of haste which allow you to have all 3 groups of coldfires on you. If the smites do go canabalistic, you must grab other groups of coldfires. Once you pop the reaper, it takes around 1 minute to finish the quest.

Chamber: Your job is one of the most important ones. You must be able to pop the reaper fast due the fact that every group relies on your reaper. Slow pop = slow group, plains and simple. The trick to this is to wall block everything around the dryder, thus letter you hit them, the aatxe, and grasping with your aoe degen. If you bring empathy, target it with the dryders first. Then target the aatxe. You should pop the reaper before or as the vale team passes which is usually around 3 minutes. Be quickly with your group as by around 4 minutes the group of graspins from mounts are almost to where you are killing your stuff. From there take UWG when vale is ready and run to vale side. Kill the dryders and keepers by balling them up, use empathy on the one who refuses to group and degen the rest. From there make your way and kill the keeper from the way you came into chamber, and then go to the corridor that vale team came from. After that keeper, move to the one where you guys enter in uw, then make your way to mtns going the way that waste does. Do not kill the dryders, they will only slow you down. Kill them after your done. Idealy you should be done around 10 minutes, if any other areas need help go and help them. Chamber can do mtns by useing empathy on the behemoth and wanding thier healing spring.

Vale is not really my forte so I'll let somebody at it comment on it. I only average out 11 - 12 minutes with escort using a A/D and N/R team shown on the THCS website. www.guildwars-thcs.com/forum

Remember the faster your group is, the more chest you will get, which is the intention of uwsc. Oh and I almost forget, please listen to people who are trying to give you tips, or save a run. I've done countless runs where I'm working on my 3rd or 4th area for covering then somebody decides to kill a reaper, new soul, soul in pits, or the ice king.

SimplyAmazing · Aug 10, 2009, 06:59 PM // 18:59

You didnt explain how to solo 4h, if you just wait at reaper for them to come, you will fail, as the reaper will die. You must cast recall on reaper, go grab pits-side aggro, pull back to reaper (but across the gap, not passed the rider) hug the wall of the gap, and backstep to directly across the monument, across the gap, (pits-side will be glitched a few secs before they reset and start heading to reaper) cancel recall, quickly run to pools-side and catch aggro, then pull to where you glitched pits-side. and tada.

Xslash · Aug 10, 2009, 07:13 PM // 19:13

Quote:

Originally Posted by king_trouble

Pits: This area (unlike what the op said) is dependendant on one fact: Grouping. If group correctly you can pop the reaper by 6 minutes thus letting you have a 8 - 9 minutes pits run, since the souls will run up to every chained souls right as they die. The trick for doing this is simple. After you death charge up the bridge run to the reaper area, once you reach the hill, run towards the top group pulling everything behind you into a ball, do not run all the way up as the group of Threshers and collectors at the bottom will break off. Once the bottom area is balled up death charge to the threshers at the low end of the hill and start killing them. The collectors will ball up around you for the most part. Once you finish doing this kill the dryders and pop the reaper (you do not have to kill the two groups at the back for now). Take the quest and run to the souls holding your aggro bubble at the very edge of where the souls spawn. Hold the dryders until the souls move out of the spawning ground and pull the dryders in and start killing them. By this point you have to wait till the souls reach the 3rd incline and run up towards the reaper with an ims other than the celerity. Having not finish thier patrol the dryders will want to resume it and break much easier. Once you reach the reaper area. Hug the wall on the side the spider spawns and death charge the the group of threshers and collectors you left behind the reaper and wait for the collectors to come to you. Once that is done you can kill them and the threshers, if done right will have the back of the reaper cleared, without risking the hostile npcs to aggro the souls, spider, and reaper. The difference between a 8 and 9 minute pits in my opinion is the spawn. More collectors = easier time.

This breaks your own mindset of finishing quicker to cover other areas.
The method you describe might have the quest updated faster, but does not allow to cover another area faster. Having quest updated faster is not necessarily most beneficial.

Targren · Aug 10, 2009, 07:13 PM // 19:13

Quote:

Originally Posted by SimplyAmazing

You didnt explain how to solo 4h, if you just wait at reaper for them to come, you will fail, as the reaper will die. You must cast recall on reaper, go grab pits-side aggro, pull back to reaper (but across the gap, not passed the rider) hug the wall of the gap, and backstep to directly across the monument, across the gap, (pits-side will be glitched a few secs before they reset and start heading to reaper) cancel recall, quickly run to pools-side and catch aggro, then pull to where you glitched pits-side. and tada.

Just to make sure I'm understanding what you're saying here... After a correct execution, you should be standing at the edge of the gap on the monument side with the pools-side next to you and pits-side across the gap?

I assume after you've slivered-down pools, you run around to grab the pits and meet them on the way to the reaper, then down them?

SimplyAmazing · Aug 10, 2009, 11:23 PM // 23:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by Targren

Just to make sure I'm understanding what you're saying here... After a correct execution, you should be standing at the edge of the gap on the monument side with the pools-side next to you and pits-side across the gap?

I assume after you've slivered-down pools, you run around to grab the pits and meet them on the way to the reaper, then down them?

No you actually want to pull them to almost where you glitched pits-side, accross the gap. You never wanna bring on monument side as the dryders could easily stray and kill reaper. and always keep an eye on them, sometimes dryders will break and head back to their original spawn point, which from there will head to reaper and pass completely by you and your aggro bubble. You might think you cannot pull them that far, but as long as you back step, you can pull them there, and actually about 15 meters even farther from that spot before they'll break.

Edit: here's a quick map to better explain what i'm explaining. ^^

Red Spots are where horsemen spawn.
Red path is where you want to pull when you have recall on reaper.
Green X is where you want to glitch pits-side
Blue path is where you will pull pools-side after you use recall.
Blue X is where you end up after pulling pools-side, and re-catching pits-side.

king_trouble · Aug 11, 2009, 12:11 AM // 00:11

Quote:

Originally Posted by Xslash

This breaks your own mindset of finishing quicker to cover other areas.
The method you describe might have the quest updated faster, but does not allow to cover another area faster. Having quest updated faster is not necessarily most beneficial.

Actually I've pulled off 10 minutes pits using a terra build by doing this, which by far is faster than most pugs. And with pits, the time for the quest can range anyway between 2 to 5 minutes depending when you take the quest. This method exploits the best time to take the quest since the spirits will run up to every chain soul as they die and not be caught in a loop. Even if your finish with pits by 10 minutes, you need maybe one more minute to clear the area at the back, killing the group before the quest usually delays your time of getting your quest done by around 3 minutes due to the fact that the spirits get caught at the bottom of the hill due to the chained soul. Even with being done by 11 minutes, you still have plenty of time to do 2 areas.

Also when it comes to soloing 4h, if you have a fast pools, (say 6 or 7 minutes to be done and in plains by either 7 or 8 minutes) soloing 4h is not really needed.

SimplyAmazing · Aug 11, 2009, 12:43 AM // 00:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by king_trouble

Also when it comes to soloing 4h, if you have a fast pools, (say 6 or 7 minutes to be done and in plains by either 7 or 8 minutes) soloing 4h is not really needed.

the keyword is __IF__. if you're in an experienced guild/alliance group. than sure, there's no reason to solo 4h and risk it. But, pugging, is a different story, there is too many children who read pvx wiki and think they can hop into a group and be a 6 min pools(or whatever area). I learned this trick while doing solo runs. But it's great to know for pugs. I much rather solo it, than have some baddie assist me in quest and fail because he doesnt cast sf right away.

Targren · Aug 11, 2009, 04:22 AM // 04:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by SimplyAmazing

Edit: here's a quick map to better explain what i'm explaining. ^^

(Good map and explaination clipped)

Thank you. Much clearer now. Appreciate it.

Hermos · Aug 11, 2009, 09:23 AM // 09:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by SimplyAmazing

No you actually want to pull them to almost where you glitched pits-side, accross the gap. You never wanna bring on monument side as the dryders could easily stray and kill reaper. and always keep an eye on them, sometimes dryders will break and head back to their original spawn point, which from there will head to reaper and pass completely by you and your aggro bubble. You might think you cannot pull them that far, but as long as you back step, you can pull them there, and actually about 15 meters even farther from that spot before they'll break.

Edit: here's a quick map to better explain what i'm explaining. ^^

Red Spots are where horsemen spawn.
Red path is where you want to pull when you have recall on reaper.
Green X is where you want to glitch pits-side
Blue path is where you will pull pools-side after you use recall.
Blue X is where you end up after pulling pools-side, and re-catching pits-side.

Thanks for this - other explanations have been slightly harder to pull off. What I don't get about this though, is that if you've got recall on yourself and you're running to pits side, doesn't recall end because you go out of range?

SimplyAmazing · Aug 11, 2009, 05:06 PM // 17:06

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hermos

Thanks for this - other explanations have been slightly harder to pull off. What I don't get about this though, is that if you've got recall on yourself and you're running to pits side, doesn't recall end because you go out of range?

As long as you don't go too far reaper will just barely be in range, you actually wont see him on radar, but he will be. You know, kinda how people leech drops in that area during 4h when someone fails. Thats what the reaper will be doing.

Best way to practice is, go planes, have a friend go pools, and when you're both ready to do 4h, just have pools wait by tree (where the rider is, close to monument) this is about where you should be catching pools-side aggro if executed properly. But have him not take any aggro from them, if he gets any aggro it will mess up you pulling them cleanly to pits-side. (you'll have to wait for the ones attacking him to break, etc) so, have him avoid taking aggro, unless you go out of range, or if you think you're not going to make it in time. basically he's just your back up. try it once or twice and you should get it down pretty easily. Try using some kind of IMS, like a cupcake, or red rock candy, and make sure you scrape the wall of the gap while your back stepping and pulling pits-side. remember, they have a decent walk back to their original spawning point, then a good distance to reaper, so you should have plenty of time to pull pools-side over and catch them. pools-side will usually break when i catch pits-side, i just backstep a couple paces and they turn around. It's a lot easier than it sounds on paper, it just requires a couple practice shots.

Enethyl Nagiwe · Aug 16, 2009, 10:28 AM // 10:28

The vale necro can SS and spirit rift the dryders when the chamber hasn't balled all the enemies. ---> faster reaper spawn and take restoring

To really make vale easy as pie the vale necro or vale sin can pop up an oni to help with killing the spirits.

Tips were told to me by Apedemak XII so all credits go to him

dr love · Aug 16, 2009, 01:00 PM // 13:00

thanks dead! those are some good tips

Quote:

Originally Posted by Enethyl Nagiwe

The vale necro can SS and spirit rift the dryders when the chamber hasn't balled all the enemies. ---> faster reaper spawn and take restoring

but if the chamber moves an inch after the necro SS, all that lab agro will reign down on the necro even if he's far out of the agro bubble. and pug chambers move all the time.

Hermos · Aug 19, 2009, 08:02 AM // 08:02

Quote:

Originally Posted by SimplyAmazing

As long as you don't go too far reaper will just barely be in range, you actually wont see him on radar, but he will be. You know, kinda how people leech drops in that area during 4h when someone fails. Thats what the reaper will be doing.

Best way to practice is, go planes, have a friend go pools, and when you're both ready to do 4h, just have pools wait by tree (where the rider is, close to monument) this is about where you should be catching pools-side aggro if executed properly. But have him not take any aggro from them, if he gets any aggro it will mess up you pulling them cleanly to pits-side. (you'll have to wait for the ones attacking him to break, etc) so, have him avoid taking aggro, unless you go out of range, or if you think you're not going to make it in time. basically he's just your back up. try it once or twice and you should get it down pretty easily. Try using some kind of IMS, like a cupcake, or red rock candy, and make sure you scrape the wall of the gap while your back stepping and pulling pits-side. remember, they have a decent walk back to their original spawning point, then a good distance to reaper, so you should have plenty of time to pull pools-side over and catch them. pools-side will usually break when i catch pits-side, i just backstep a couple paces and they turn around. It's a lot easier than it sounds on paper, it just requires a couple practice shots.

To be honest, I tried it both ways, and yours seems far more technically challenging. I've perfected the other way (Pools then Pits side, kill behind the reaper) and it seems far, far easier to do, since with your way, you would have to DC to the Pits side group in order to maintain Recall whilst going around that top bend.

ImpressiveSkilled · Oct 21, 2009, 12:36 PM // 12:36

Can anyone confirm the bridge jump from chamber to mountains: The plains has recall on an ally and just 'jumps' from the bridge (in chamber) to mountains by removing recall when that ally is in mountains. Is this true?

impulsion · Oct 21, 2009, 12:51 PM // 12:51

No, the bridge jump is where everybody goes to the bridge except the puller (should be pools as he is fastest, but is mnts in PUG UWSCs). The puller runs through to mnts pulling aggro behind, and everybody else can dcharge through the wall to that aggro. Plains who doesn't have dcharge can just recall through anyhow.

ImpressiveSkilled · Oct 21, 2009, 12:55 PM // 12:55

Thanks for your explaination, but I don't get the benefits out of it. Except it's cool to death charge through a wall and save about 30 seconds?