Curse

sonofthort · Jan 27, 2010, 07:55 AM // 07:55

After the soon to come SF nerf and 600 nerf, there will likely be a need for new tanking builds. We may go back to old builds, like warriors and terras, but I had a Derv build in mind that might work pretty well.

General Idea:

Maintain VoW of Silence permanently - This can be done at 8 Mysticism with a 20% enchanting weapon.

Maintain Conviction - This can be done at 6 Earth prayers. PvE conviction gives +24 armor and 50% blocking chance while enchanted.

All Windwalker insignias on armor (+5 armor for each enchantment, max 4)

A shield off hand for +8 extra armor when needed.

With this simple set up so far, the build is invulnerable to spells, has a 50% chance to block all attacks, and 122 armor (once we get 4 enchantments on the derv), or 114 armor without the shield. There are also plenty of attribute points left.

From here, the rest is up in the air. I was thinking that a monk secondary would work nicely. It would grant some extra enchantments, maintainable ones, which would be nice since attempting to maintain vow of silence doesnt grant much room for casting other spells. Balthazars Spirit might be nice, since damage will still get through, the extra energy management it would add could come in handy. A zealous scythe would most likely also be a requirement of this build.

Ofcourse, this build is not going to be a completely independent tanker, it will require a little bit of help from a monk, which was usually always the case pre perma days. The monk in this case could bond the derv, some that come to mind are life bond, life barrier, and of course, strength of honor, which would give the derv another enchant plus big damage capabilities with their scythe.

As long as a monk is helping the derv out a bit, the rest of the dervs bar could focus more on damage than anything, making some scythe attacks excellent choices (zealous sweep, victorious sweep, and ofcourse standard popular scythe attacks like mystic sweep and eremite's sweep).

Perhaps a monk isn't going to help you out to much. We fear that protective spirit or spirit bond might get hit soon, but hopefully if they dont get hit too hard, either one would make an excellent spell to cast between Vow of Silence, leaving only about a second of vulnerability to spells. Spirit bond would be my first choice, if any attacks got through that were over 60 damage, spirit bond would heal against it.

Weaknesses:

-Obviously still vulnerable to attacks, with only 50% of them being blocked.
-Vulnerable to point blank aoe spells, or other aoe spells not originally targeting the derv.
-Vulnerable to non spell skills, like signets and some touch spells.
-Non spell enchantment removal, vow of silence will always be the first enchantment removed, meaning any non spell removal will instantly make you vulnerable to spells.
-Stance removal, conviction has a 20 second recharge, so if it gets removed, you might go some time without +24 armor and 50% blocking.

As always, every build has counters, and it's just a matter of knowing where it is going to work, and how to handle situations where it won't. That being said, stance removal and non spell enchantment removal is pretty rare.

So, I've provided the general idea and some ways to implement it, I'de like to hear your thoughts and ideas.

Naughty Nurse · Jan 27, 2010, 09:03 AM // 09:03

The biggest Weakness of the idea, is VoS itself.. directly from wiki:

Elite Enchantment Spell. For 5...9...10 seconds, you cannot be the target of spells, and you cannot cast spells.

Having said that, you cannot be target of friendly heal SPELLS, making you tank for a bit, then die. Wich clearly isnt ideal. Unless you can sufficiently heal yourself, without the use of spells, or make sure theres no health loss whatsoever, VoS wont do the trick

impulsion · Jan 27, 2010, 11:29 AM // 11:29

In UW chamber at least these should be self sufficient:
E/Me
Obsidian Flesh
mantra of resolve
channeling
kinetic armor
stoneflesh aura
ether feast

W/Me
defy pain
physical resistance
i am unstoppable
you are all weaklings
to the limit
feel no pain

Against casters this is usually enough (pools, plains, mnts, wastes ,pits):
E/x
Obsidian flesh
stoneflesh armor

REDdelver · Jan 27, 2010, 02:49 PM // 14:49

Its alright to tinker around thinking of ideas, but to put a decent amount of time into a new tank build before a big nerg is more or less a waste of time.

Might as well wait until the actual nerfbat comes. What if Vow is nerfed? What if...... I dont care for what if's really, but it makes sense to just be patient. See what the nerf has to offer, and go from there.

Shayne Hawke · Jan 27, 2010, 03:07 PM // 15:07

Quote:

Originally Posted by REDdelver

What if Vow is nerfed?

What reason would VoW have to be nerfed? No real point in trying to speculate anything about what the builds of the future are going to be like if we're going to stick a huge "What if XYZ gets nerfed?!" tag on every single skill.

Grim Aragorn · Jan 27, 2010, 03:46 PM // 15:46

i have an idea, you could just play the damn game not worry about tanks and shadow form.

Chthon · Jan 27, 2010, 05:52 PM // 17:52

1. Don't tank.

2. This:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Naughty Nurse

The biggest Weakness of the idea, is VoS itself.. directly from wiki:

Elite Enchantment Spell. For 5...9...10 seconds, you cannot be the target of spells, and you cannot cast spells.

Having said that, you cannot be target of friendly heal SPELLS, making you tank for a bit, then die. Wich clearly isnt ideal. Unless you can sufficiently heal yourself, without the use of spells, or make sure theres no health loss whatsoever, VoS wont do the trick

How are you going to heal? Mending?

3. I don't expect nerfs to ProtSpirit or ProtBond.

MasterSasori · Jan 27, 2010, 06:12 PM // 18:12

PS and SB nerfs are very unlikely. They are canon in alot of HM team builds and nerfing them will hurt a nonfarming build quite a lot.

REDdelver · Jan 27, 2010, 06:20 PM // 18:20

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shayne Hawke

What reason would VoW have to be nerfed? No real point in trying to speculate anything about what the builds of the future are going to be like if we're going to stick a huge "What if XYZ gets nerfed?!" tag on every single skill.

Isnt that what I said? So you more or less agree with me. Or what you meant to say was...."No real point in trying to speculate anything about what the builds of the future until the update comes.

There is no reason for Vow to be nerfed. I'm merely pointing theres no sense in building a skill bar when we dont know if that skill bar will even be the same after nerf. We have no clue what all is going to take a hit. We have several ideas about certain skills, but they said those skills werent the only other skills being addressed.

My what if statement is an example of why to just be patient and see what the new update is about. I'm not actually speculating that Vow will take a hit. I'm actually countering "speculation" that an existing build right now will even work after the nerf.

Revolutionen · Jan 27, 2010, 06:41 PM // 18:41

they wont nerf Shadow Form so just stick to that

Braxton619 · Jan 27, 2010, 06:48 PM // 18:48

VoS is the problem. It's a terrible tanking skill because you and your team can't cast spells on yourself.

Imo, Obby Tank is so much better.

flapjack · Jan 27, 2010, 07:05 PM // 19:05

If there were more shouts and stances with healing it would be more useful. Don't count vos out completely though. I leveled up a derv to play around with it a few weeks ago and there are some options in doing specific tasks then retreating to cleared area to put up wop (1/4 sec cast) etc. Frankly I'm not spending anytime working on new farming builds until SF (and probably 600'ing) gets nerfed. Then I will have all this free time to work on it LOL.

Zodiak · Jan 27, 2010, 07:33 PM // 19:33

Yeah, it definatly would require some form of skill based healing that are not skill related. The only one that comes to mind:

"Feel No Pain!":Unlinked, last a long time and cant be stripped or removed, but thats only health regeneration.
Heal Signet: -40AR while using, straight heals
Troll Ungeant: 3s activation, health regenVictorious Sweep: Requires a Scythe and Ideally some points in Scythe Mastery.

sonofthort · Jan 27, 2010, 08:24 PM // 20:24

Hmm, I have to admit i completely ignored the part about not being able to recieve spells from party members, it does kinda put a hamper on the build. There are still options, but probably wont be worth it.

To say that there is no point in talking about this is stupid, kindly find something valueable to do with your time.

_Nihilist_ · Jan 27, 2010, 08:54 PM // 20:54

1) You can't use a Shield while wielding a Scythe.
2) If you're going to use a Shield with so many free Attribute Points, why not use a /W or /P secondary?

Ariena Najea · Jan 27, 2010, 09:06 PM // 21:06

You can still use Party Heals like Heal Party, LoD, and Breath of the Great Dwarf since they don't target the VoS Dervish. If you are bringing a solely defensive tank, you probably need one of these anyways.

There is of course the problem of re-applying VoS. Since it cannot be recast while it is active, there is no room for error in case something (ie an interrupt) goes wrong. This is an inherent problem with the skill.

REDdelver · Jan 27, 2010, 09:42 PM // 21:42

Quote:

Originally Posted by sonofthort

To say that there is no point in talking about this is stupid, kindly find something valueable to do with your time.

I find my time to be valuable enough to suggest my thoughts that make sense to me. I share my thinking to help people maybe think about something they didnt, therefore helping them.

I didnt read anyone saying anything about anything being stupid. I did see some people say it makes sense to wait until the update. If you dont want peoples help or suggestions, then theres no point in posting. You asked for thoughts and ideas. We have been giving them to you.

Once again, waiting til after the update to put together a solid "tank" or whatever buld is SENSICAL. Its one thing if the update was 4 months from now, but seen as how its right upon us.........

To tell some of us(or whomever) to find something valuable to do with our time........is hypocritical on your part. I truely do hope it makes sense to you......just trying to help.

Trader of Secrets · Jan 27, 2010, 09:55 PM // 21:55

depending on how bonds are after the nerf, they can be used on tank. I have a feeling 100b spike will be the next great thing for clears.

sonofthort · Jan 27, 2010, 10:07 PM // 22:07

Quote:

Originally Posted by _Nihilist_

1) You can't use a Shield while wielding a Scythe.
2) If you're going to use a Shield with so many free Attribute Points, why not use a /W or /P secondary?

Hi, please read my original post more carefully. Also, what would your suggests for para and war skills be?

sonofthort · Jan 27, 2010, 10:10 PM // 22:10

Quote:

Originally Posted by REDdelver

I find my time to be valuable enough to suggest my thoughts that make sense to me. I share my thinking to help people maybe think about something they didnt, therefore helping them.

I didnt read anyone saying anything about anything being stupid. I did see some people say it makes sense to wait until the update. If you dont want peoples help or suggestions, then theres no point in posting. You asked for thoughts and ideas. We have been giving them to you.

Once again, waiting til after the update to put together a solid "tank" or whatever buld is SENSICAL. Its one thing if the update was 4 months from now, but seen as how its right upon us.........

To tell some of us(or whomever) to find something valuable to do with our time........is hypocritical on your part. I truely do hope it makes sense to you......just trying to help.

You're not helping anybody by using your "there is no point to do this" logic. Basically, you bring nothing to the table.