Curse

Osprey3 · Mar 05, 2010, 03:49 AM // 03:49

Hello. Recently me and some friends have come up with a new 4 man build for Foundry. I'm unfamiliar with gwg code but I posted it on wiki.
It can be found here: http://pvx.wikia.com/wiki/Build:Team-_4_Man_Foundry

So far we have been testing it for the past week and have had many success full runs of less than 45 mins. Currently our fastest time is 34 mins and I have posted that pic on the wiki page. We have also tested this build in City and it works as well. Thoughts/Ideas??

Credit for the build creation and testing go to: Rohans Healer, Rhs Osprey, Insane Est, Spy Cobra, Pro Healer, and Aurelius Ventidio

Life Bringing · Mar 05, 2010, 03:56 AM // 03:56

Slight overkill on degen. Anything over 10 pips of degen is worthless(iirc, they don't have natural regen).

Osprey3 · Mar 05, 2010, 04:05 AM // 04:05

Quote:

Originally Posted by Life Bringing

Slight overkill on degen. Anything over 10 pips of degen is worthless(iirc, they don't have natural regen).

Despair Titans do not get disease hence all the degen.

Ancient Aris · Mar 05, 2010, 04:32 AM // 04:32

Quote:

Originally Posted by Osprey3

Despair Titans do not get disease hence all the degen.

Actually there are 5 kinds of foes that do not get affected by Bleeding and Diseased: Anguish Titan, Despair Titan, Fury Titan, Greater Dream Rideredit And Guardian of Komalie (Mesmer).

Essence Snow · Mar 05, 2010, 04:57 AM // 04:57

Nice work....definately gonna give it a go.

Thanks for posting!

Rushin Roulette · Mar 05, 2010, 06:02 AM // 06:02

Im not realy sure why the last Ranger is a R/N with blood ritual though. All other players will be maintaining Essence bond on the tank which will mean nearly endless energy for them if the tank and the smiter are doing it correctly. Why not just make him a R/Mo as well with Essence Bond so that he wont have to sac himself a full HP/Energy res?
Apart from that, it looks like a really nice build setup

insanethemadone · Mar 05, 2010, 08:43 AM // 08:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rushin Roulette

Im not realy sure why the last Ranger is a R/N with blood ritual though. All other players will be maintaining Essence bond on the tank which will mean nearly endless energy for them if the tank and the smiter are doing it correctly. Why not just make him a R/Mo as well with Essence Bond so that he wont have to sac himself a full HP/Energy res?
Apart from that, it looks like a really nice build setup

R/Mo is a bad idea ... you would loose Necrosis and BR + while the tank has
tons of agro then R/N is casting spirits and that bearly cost any energy ..
At the end youll die enugh times and casting essence bond would be waste of time + while dealing with fury tank wont get hit much anyway ..

stanleyhkw · Mar 05, 2010, 12:57 PM // 12:57

Great work guys !

pm Rohans to show u the run =) if u have Ranger with LB r8, SS r10, asura r10 XD

Johny bravo · Mar 05, 2010, 02:00 PM // 14:00

Stupid conference call I could have been the Famine on that run :/

Build works good. Haven't been on a run where you did city, how long did that take?

Osprey3 · Mar 05, 2010, 02:22 PM // 14:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by Johny bravo

Stupid conference call I could have been the Famine on that run :/

Build works good. Haven't been on a run where you did city, how long did that take?

If I remember correctly we did both Foundry+City under and hour. I'll post more screens after we run today.

Johny bravo · Mar 05, 2010, 04:40 PM // 16:40

Cool.
I wonder how working cons (no armor though as it would probably result in a dead 600) into the mix would effect speed of the run.
I mean you get 2 titans and 4 margos each at a cost per person of 4K for cons.

A celerity would allow you to keep up intensity and BUH with no down time (maybe 1s for intensity depending on how the celerity stack with QZ), improve casting times for rangers (not a major issue but just takes so long to cast those damn natural rituals), it would also increase movement speed as well not that there is much of an issue there

The grail would bump all your stats up by one which would increase damage output from retribution, EoE, Famine, give the 600 a larger energy pool (not really needed though except when dealing with a single ki in room 2).

Maybe tonight I can catch up with you guys wouldn't mind dropping a set of cons to see how the run works out.
Spent way to long messing up a full clear last night (had a bad run)

Osprey3 · Mar 05, 2010, 04:54 PM // 16:54

Quote:

I wonder how working cons (no armor though as it would probably result in a dead 600) into the mix would effect speed of the run.

Cons are not required for the run and actually have a negative effect. As u said Armor- would increase armor and decrease dmg done. Essence-makes the tank lose aggro at spots and will mess up pulls.

Quote:

The grail would bump all your stats up by one which would increase damage output from retribution, EoE, Famine, give the 600 a larger energy pool.

Grail-the only useful item, but not needed. As i mentioned before we are averaging about 40 min runs, but i suppose if u want to go a little faster u can pop a grail. *note* most of the dmg though comes through degen not retribution.

Johny bravo · Mar 05, 2010, 06:25 PM // 18:25

First I realize they aren't needed, I might have gone on a run or 2 with you

. Just wondering what kind of effect they would have on the run.

For the celerity - I am not sure he would have trouble holding aggro as we do basically the same type of pulls during a full clear (except we do it to keep the path clear and he is killing them).
Being able to keep up BuH and Intesity give keeps damage a a consistent 45 (or something close to this) instead of flopping between 29, 36 and 45.

You are right you wouldn't use a full set but as that is how they are bought I figured that is how I would assess the cost.

Lastly
I am not sure the majority of the damage comes from degen either as at 10pips you are looking at 20 DPS max and not all enemies bleed or disease.
So let me try my hand at math (correct me if I am wrong below as I suck at this kind of analysis)

A normal warrior attack speed is about1.33s, in HM that it is almost twice as fast meaning that physicals are taking about >45 DPS.
Casters and rangers are normally 1.75 - 2.0 so they are right around 45DPS as well. Take into consideration that rangers are not always attacking the 600 I would say that retribution doesn't play a major role in their demise and that it is more from EoE and Degen. But since the trigger to EoE is deaths taking out the melee faster leads to faster caster kills as well.

I think the combined increase of damage output from retribution, EoE and Famine could have a significant effect on end time.

Again using cons would be all about trying to do the fastest run they are not required in anyway to do the run.

That being said if i catch up with you guys tonight I will drop a celerity and grail on 1 run and just a grail on another to see what the results are.

(still bitter I couldn't make the 34 minutes run, would have been fun)

stanleyhkw · Mar 05, 2010, 06:59 PM // 18:59

Quote:

Originally Posted by Johny bravo

Being able to keep up BuH and Intesity give keeps damage a a consistent 45 (or something close to this) instead of flopping between 29, 36 and 45.

smiter is under QZ all the time like 600.
When u are under QZ range, skills rechrage time decrease to the limit. (50%)

For example, shadow form won't decrease to 10sec cool down, even u have glyph of swiftness + deadly paradox + QZ + essence for your shadow form.

Johny bravo · Mar 05, 2010, 07:28 PM // 19:28

Quote:

When u are under QZ range, skills rechrage time decrease to the limit. (50%)

Ah didn't know that thanks for the info and guess that shoots that whole theory in the A$$.
I really don't think Grail will have much of an effect as the majority of the extra damage would be from keeping BuH and intensity up all the time.

Would have been interesting to see the effect oh well. At least you saved me the celerity and 2 grails

Osprey3 · Mar 05, 2010, 09:36 PM // 21:36

Just did another 34 min run. Build is working well.
Here is a pic: http://img696.imageshack.us/img696/1237/gw358.jpg

our 2nd run today yielded a 36 min run: http://img221.imageshack.us/img221/6632/gw360.jpg

Ancient Aris · Mar 06, 2010, 05:39 PM // 17:39

After i been reading your posts i would like to clear few things...
Cons do help, grail adds +2 damage to retribution with 17 smite (31 damage instead regular 29). Personally i prefer going with basic 16 smite. The reason is simple, i am not a fan of cons or sweets. Essence is nice for easier pulls for the 600, the problem with essence that it may cause agro break if the 600 moves to fast. Same goes for essence in my opinion, not needed for me and its a waste of perfectly good 4k. About Armor i am not sure, because i did not test it post nerf, but i am sure in 100% that it will be a waste of money.
Cons are not needed and it is a waste of money but if you feel that u need them to speed up your runs its your choice to use them. Tanks remember that if you get used to cons it is very hard to tank without them, cast time and recharge of skills is different (i know many tanks that can not stop using personal sweets).
I think blood ritual is very good skill for this run, the reason is that even the best rangers could make mistakes that lower theres energy. without br that requires from famine ranger to remove his bonds and wait for energy regen, then bond the 600 again.(this takes time). +br could help new tanks which have energy problems.
Most of blood ritual usage is in city.
BR could be used in another way to speed your runs. The smiter and the r/n could work together for 20 sec ural... r/n sacrifice his health for longer ural (read ural to see how it works)
Main damage in those runs is the same damage that been used in old 3 man foundry, its eoe, famine+sv. (need good regroups for eoe and famine to have the max usage).
Degen is mainly for casters in 2th and 4th rooms (Dryders), margos in the first room and to kill titans faster even with famine and eoe.
Now few tips for the tanks...
First do not die**
Make your own tactic for the run, for example, after agro u can kill all ki's alone before u regroup or kill them after all titans die. Test and see what works better for you.
At agro remember that if foes attack you it doesnt mean they are in EoE range, like i said before eoe is the main damage in those runs. (remember that)
Most important is the regroup, tanks should regroup titans fast and clean (if your are good and lucky u will regroup casters with those titans, which will speed up the run).
If u do not know how to regroup you could find it here...http://www.xfire.com/video/1c4f6d/
The regroups are the same even with the fact that the video pre-smite nerf. (it is my tanking, you dont have to use the same way but u could see regrouping in the video)
Last thing, do not give up, i know its not easy but even the best tank wont do 30 min run at the first try. Test tactics for yourself as 600 and you would see it is not that hard with good tactic.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Johny bravo

Stupid conference call I could have been the Famine on that run :/

Build works good. Haven't been on a run where you did city, how long did that take?

After we finish testing foundry we will make new tactic for city and then see after some practice how fast city runs are.
From what i have seen city will not going to be a problem. So far city run is around 20 min.

Johny bravo · Mar 07, 2010, 02:08 PM // 14:08

So now that this has been up for a few days has anyone else been had any success running it?
How long did it take you?
I have tried it a couple times with Pugs rangers and they can't seem to not wipe the party by doing something stupid. There is a lot of coordination involved and I am wondering if it will be pugable? Plus I hate trying to explain it to pugs over and over again

Ancient Aris · Mar 07, 2010, 10:17 PM // 22:17

We made few changes in the builds...
First the smiter is running now Infuse Health instead the original Restful Breeze.
The reason for that is to achieve 20 sec ural (with max Deldrimor title 10+10) for non stop ural. which means minimum 35 damage all the time, without the affect from Intensity that will increase the damage to 45. (without any sweets or cons)
Usage is simple, infuse+ural every time ural get recharged, after that famine ranger should Restful Breeze the smiter so he wont die from bleeding.
As i posted before r/n and smiter could work together to achieve 20 ural but with infuse on smiter its easier for both players.

Next we removed Predatory Season from R/N bar (Lacerate ranger) and replaced it with Blood Renewal for self heal.
I found Predatory Season actually useless against ki's if u run with good tactic. Another reason is that the spirit is healing foes (If any of your attacks hit, you gain 5 health).
I know it is only 5 hp but it makes a difference (for example 20 hp after 4 hits are a lot).

Thoughts/Ideas are welcome for r/n skill as a replacement to blood renewal, because it does not needed but we can't find anything better.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Johny bravo

So now that this has been up for a few days has anyone else been had any success running it?
How long did it take you?
I have tried it a couple times with Pugs rangers and they can't seem to not wipe the party by doing something stupid. There is a lot of coordination involved and I am wondering if it will be pugable? Plus I hate trying to explain it to pugs over and over again

IF guild/friend (4 people) groups have trouble with the run whisper me (Rohans Healer) or to Rhs Osprey, we will show you our tactic and answer questions u might have.

code1101 · Mar 08, 2010, 03:58 PM // 15:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by Johny bravo

So now that this has been up for a few days has anyone else been had any success running it?
How long did it take you?
I have tried it a couple times with Pugs rangers and they can't seem to not wipe the party by doing something stupid. There is a lot of coordination involved and I am wondering if it will be pugable? Plus I hate trying to explain it to pugs over and over again

I feel you .. doing the run pre-nerf I got tired of lousy tanks so I started to learn how to tank and after I got good with that I got tired of teaching people where the spots are and where I'm gona tank and how to save the snakes and what to do at fury. a run like this shouldn't take 2 hours just to teach people how to do it :/ .. it was just not worth it anymore for me.

Quote:

Originally Posted by wiki

There is a column between where the Fury's group spawns and where the dementia titans from Silzesh were. Lay down spirits in range of that column. Pull the Fury's group to that column getting the Guardian of Komalie's next to u on that column while hiding from the Fury's attack. Have the Lacerate ranger aggro the dementia titans from Silzesh's spawn and bring them too the 600 for more agro and energy. Let the ranger die and rez him. At this point maintain all your spirits in range of the 600 and soon the Anur Ki's will come up to heal and AV+Famine will kill them. When the Anur Ki's are dead the 600 has 2 choices. 1. The 600 can either stop maintaining Spellbreaker and have the Lacerate ranger come up and avoid the dementia titans and Pain Inverter+Finish Him the Fury and then finish off the rest of the Fury's group in the same way, or option 2. The 600 can die and let the dementia titans run away leaving only the last few enemies in the Fury's group remaining to kill. The 600 can pull the Fury group while avoiding/strafing his Fingers of Chaos attack meanwhile the Lacerate ranger can Pain Inverter+Finish Him The Fury and the rest of the remaining enemies. If the ranger dies the Smiter can just Unyielding Aura him and rinse and repeat til the group is dead. *Note* it is easier to kill the Fury if the 600 does not have spell breaker on allowing the Fury to cast Firestorm and Meteor Shower allowing PI to kill him faster. Tada collect your gems and enjoy!

you said that AV+Famine will kill the KI's ?! maybe Famine alone since AV doesn't trigger on ranged attacks IIRC and all the foes in the fury group are ranged attackers. Also note that Guardian of Komalie's dont attack you unless you hex them several times and I dont see a hex on the 600 bar. Do they attack if they get affected by radiation field ?!

I've been away for a while so maybe things have changed.