Curse

Age · Sep 06, 2007, 04:10 AM // 04:10

Quote:

Originally Posted by cheddarbox

So, I'm new to the game. I leveled a few classes and now I'm really interested in leveling a warrior.

However, after talking to a few friends and some guild members, I've been told that warriors are really not all that useful since the dervish appeared. I've heard that dervishes tank just as good if not better then warriors, yet deal a lot more damage, and aoe damage at that. One person went as far as to say warriors are near useless now.

I'm sure they're not useless, but are warriors really that bad?

Again, like to point out that I'm very new to this game, so I am a noob and I'm ok with that. Thanks.

If this is something you really want to do go for it don't let anyone talk you out of it.You will find out for your self how usefull they are and then you can read more up them.GL and enjoy your days as Warrior if you need any tips give me shout in game as well when I am not busy.

blue.rellik · Sep 06, 2007, 04:13 AM // 04:13

Quote:

Originally Posted by dan-the-noob

As i said, combine with physical resistance.

Hahahahaha lawl wut? Then get mashed by a caster? You play dervishs, you should have said [skill]Conviction[/skill]

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I do it, so it doesn't matter what you think, seeing as you blindly don't want to accept Warrior's can be outdamaged.

Prove it. It's a common fact in the game that a DSlash warrior is one of the highest sources of DPS in the entire game, a good one packing with a conjure will outdamage pretty much anything.

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I like how you ignore the fact Dervish have counters to everything. Fact. In DoA? Yes, Dervish is enchantment heavy as it's the tank.. as is the Warrior, from bonding. So where are your lvl28+ areas? GW:EN? HM? In both my main build is Lyssa.. the 1 enchantment on that bar.. Eternal Aura. There we are then.

Missing my point for the win! A Dervish NEEDS to have those skills because they're affected by 95% of all hate in the game.

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Oh Watchful Intervention and Imbue Health just saves somebody's life, but yea ya know...

WY is still better. Party wide damage mitigation > one off healing. Not to mention you're giving up your energy and spending time casting those, a warrior doesn't need to stop to use WY

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When i was talking about VoS. Two 1/4 sec enchants going up before VoS.. compared to a 2 second break, kiting out of danger a bit..

Oh because it's always that simple, just pre-cast everything right? If that was the case then why isn't everyone running that?

Quote:

to Heal sig (and if you don't kite you take as much damage in those 2 seconds as you heal for.)

Lawl wut? A warrior most of the time is the one most people don't try and kill first simply because they are the hardest to kill, that's why [skill]Frenzy[/skill] is king in PvP. It's mainly the squishes that get targetted first so most of the time a warrior can afford the -40 armour since generally they don't have to worry about being ganked by other warriors.

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Also, please don't refer to observer mode high-end PvP when you don't actually take notes on what you see. The Melandru Dervish used in GvG... uses NO enchantments.

PvP is different from PvE. Melandru is great fun I'll admit but it's not as great in PvE.

~ Dan ~ · Sep 06, 2007, 08:19 AM // 08:19

Quote:

Originally Posted by blue.rellik

Hahahahaha lawl wut? Then get mashed by a caster? You play dervishs, you should have said [skill]Conviction[/skill]

Fail at logic?.. How can a caster mash you in using Vow of Silence?!?!?!??! Physical Resistance > Conviction for the job its doing. +40 > 20 armour

Quote:

Originally Posted by blue.rellik

Prove it. It's a common fact in the game that a DSlash warrior is one of the highest sources of DPS in the entire game, a good one packing with a conjure will outdamage pretty much anything.

Lol, gona pm me in game? Dslash bar has no self heal, unless you want to spec tactics and waste damage opportunity? Or use lion's Comfort? (if that's the case then... lol) Dervish has self heals coming from the primary attribute making for sufficient healing without further spec.

Quote:

Originally Posted by blue.rellik

Missing my point for the win! A Dervish NEEDS to have those skills because they're affected by 95% of all hate in the game.

But a Dervish can have those skills and not be effected greatly damage wise. You don't need those skills.. because you don't have any!!

Quote:

Originally Posted by blue.rellik

WY is still better. Party wide damage mitigation > one off healing. Not to mention you're giving up your energy and spending time casting those, a warrior doesn't need to stop to use WY

+20 armour vs spike prevention in high-end PvE with lvl 28 monsters? hmmm....

Quote:

Originally Posted by blue.rellik

Oh because it's always that simple, just pre-cast everything right? If that was the case then why isn't everyone running that?

Pre-cast. Run in. Bang. Bang. Mob Dead. Move on. I don't even need to recast, if you want proof my H+H team can kill a mob in 20 seconds, feel free to come watch

And if it's high end... As i said before, i would be using Lyssa or the like for full out damage. No defensive enchants at all. Maybe everyone isn't running it because 1) They share your opinion 2) They share the retarded opinion of 90% of this thread 3) They are 1 of the many AoB PvE noobs?

Quote:

Originally Posted by blue.rellik

PvP is different from PvE. Melandru is great fun I'll admit but it's not as great in PvE.

/agreed, yet you were referring to PvP anyway....

glountz · Sep 06, 2007, 09:58 AM // 09:58

I think this dervish Vs Warrior debate is really stupid. What's problematic is that the pro-dervish actually base their arguments on 1v1 or self healing. Shortly said, they are thinking themselves as solo fighters, and not as a key role in a team.
For PVE, a warrior is great. What's good with a warrior is that they have a great armor and great DPS with no skill at all. You could have an empty skillbar, you'll take much more beating from anyone and do much more beating than everyone (excepted the dervish if mobs are packed and AoE is triggered- which is not always the case). That gives to them a flexibility other profs doesn't have.

If you're beginning a warrior in PVE, in Prophecies, I advise you to build an axe warrior with cyclone axe (and a zealous axe). It will deal nice AoE damage in PVE while boosting your adre really fast. Take with you shields up! and WY! to add party-wide protections. If you don't have elites, take dismember as a source of deep wound and executionner's strike. The rest of your bar doesn't really matter, this few skills will greatly help mitigating damage while you will deal some too.
Don't bring frenzy, as in PVE you will take the beating. Take flurry or berserker stance. Then Cleave for your first elite, the eviscerate. As soon as you have some competent monks (not Alesia), you should abandon your self heals if you have some, healing is not your job, it's theirs.
As soon as you get factions, you can enhance really soon your bar by adding Triple Chop. You could get it ASA you reach Lion's Arch. A better IAS is there: Tiger's stance. If you go deep in Factions, you will be able to build a really powerful sword build by capping Dragon slash. With "for great Justice" it completely renews on hit, giving you a powerful DPS attack.
If you get some factions, run to take the Faction PVE skill "Save yourselves". This skill is good, so good you will probably never get it out of your bar. On a Dragon slash/For Great Justice bar, you actually renew it everytime you hit with dragon slash, offering a constant +100 armor to your whole party. You really will see the difference, your monks will cheer you and love you and beg you to come in their party. You can still use it with a cyclone axe/triple chop bar with For great Justice!, but if monsters are not packed so you won't AoE hit them, you will have trouble renewing it every 3-4 secs. Still, it works, as in PVE mobs don't have a clue about positionning, so if you don't hit with AoE, that's either the mobs are dead or the mobs are not numerous enough to pose a threat anyway.
If you go to Elona in the Nightfall campaign, you will want to take the best PVE IAS: flail. You will want maybe too going Para secondary just to take Enduring harmony so your shouts will lasts 50% longer, especially your beloved "For Great Justice".
Sunspear PVE skills are okay, but whirling attack isn't so good actually, but the Paragon "There is nothing to fear" skill is appealing. It's huge energy cost however forbids you to use it effectively. You will be able to use it only if you have no energy skill in your bar whatsoever and a zealous sword, or if you have ways to gain energy, from a Bipper for example, or from the paragon zealous anthem. If you have any form of outside energy management, take it. As a shout, it will provides a party wide small damage reduction and a big party heal, without in any way stopping you from bashing targets.
Additionally, you may take agonizing chop to add a big boost to your mini PVE spikie (Deep Wound skill-Damage skill-Agonizing chop).
Elona will gives you heroes. Many of them can help you doing your job better. A smite monk can for example pack Judge's Insight on you.
But your best allies will be necros and paras. Paras will grants you many shouts that will make your attacks better, like burning-criticals-energy free Triple chops. As party-wide supporters, paragons are your best friends, but not only you, but also your monks, eles, anyone best friends. In a team based on physical attackers, they can have a lot of nasty shouts, while doing some serious beating too.
Another beloved hero will be the necro. Your shouts like WY! can affect the MM's minions, actually helping him keeping his army up. But your most beloved necro will be the order necro. Not only he will give you some mana you may lack to cast your most expensive shouts, but he will also boost your physical damage (of you and any physical attacker in your team, like paras, sins, or rangers, I don't quote Dervishes because badly, many of their enchants/forms rely on changing their weapon from physical to elemental, so orders won't work) beyond what's reasonable for the poor mobs. Additionnaly, you can give him some nasty hexes, like Spoil Victor or Spiteful Spirit/Barbs if you put him a litlle curses also.
If you get to GWEN, then there's interesting PVE skills here. Like the Drunken Master one, which of course requires that you are drunk to use it at its full effectiveness, but a combined IAS+speed boost costing 5 and lasting 60 secs is what may replace definitively Flail on your skill bar if you have a cellar full of differents alcohols.

Voilà!
That's all I can say up to now. You'll see that a warrior is quite powerful, both in terms of DPS than in terms of party wide supports. They can help, kill, take beating, while drinking a beer.

blue.rellik · Sep 07, 2007, 01:33 AM // 01:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by dan-the-noob

Fail at logic?.. How can a caster mash you in using Vow of Silence?!?!?!??! Physical Resistance > Conviction for the job its doing. +40 > 20 armour

Thank you, now I know you're lying about doing +100 damage hits. You're giving up two skills just so only you can survive? Please it's a team game, give the monks some faith

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Lol, gona pm me in game? Dslash bar has no self heal, unless you want to spec tactics and waste damage opportunity?

It's a team game. We have monks for a reason

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Or use lion's Comfort? (if that's the case then... lol) Dervish has self heals coming from the primary attribute making for sufficient healing without further spec.

The healing from mysticism will not cover the fact that you have take over 2x the amount of damage a shield warrior does. Great healing is a bad solution against high amounts of damage, high armour/defence is the better solution.

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But a Dervish can have those skills and not be effected greatly damage wise. You don't need those skills.. because you don't have any!!

Will you stop being a damn strawman here and listen to what I said? A dervish [b]NEEDS[/]b to be able to have something for nearly every situation becuase they are affect by nearly every hate in the game.

Also not every dervish packs condition removal, hex removal, spike healing, VoS and physical resistence on the same bar (if they did it would suck, they would be a slightly harder to kill monk with less energy) so you're previous points are moot.

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+20 armour vs spike prevention in high-end PvE with lvl 28 monsters? hmmm....

PvE monsters are terrible spikers.

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Pre-cast. Run in. Bang. Bang. Mob Dead. Move on. I don't even need to recast, if you want proof my H+H team can kill a mob in 20 seconds, feel free to come watch

And if it's high end... As i said before, i would be using Lyssa or the like for full out damage. No defensive enchants at all.

You have just removed ANY credibility you had. ANYONE can own monsters as long as they're not lvl 28+ so your point again is moot. If it's high end and you use Lyssa then you're not going through the precasting stuff

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Maybe everyone isn't running it because 1) They share your opinion 2) They share the retarded opinion of 90% of this thread 3) They are 1 of the many AoB PvE noobs?

What's my opinion? That VoS is stupid for PvE? That Dervishs suck? Maybe you can go through my posts in here, I never once said a warrior is better than a dervish nor a dervish sucks (I play both and although a warrior is my favourite class, I still enjoy playing a dervish). I was here to counter your arguements

/agreed, yet you were referring to PvP anyway....[/QUOTE]

~ Dan ~ · Sep 07, 2007, 08:53 AM // 08:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by blue.rellik

Thank you, now I know you're lying about doing +100 damage hits. You're giving up two skills just so only you can survive? Please it's a team game, give the monks some faith

Yes you know i'm lieing because you almost definately have to put 8 skills dedicated to damage to pull off the big DPS....

Quote:

Originally Posted by blue.rellik

The healing from mysticism will not cover the fact that you have take over 2x the amount of damage a shield warrior does. Great healing is a bad solution against high amounts of damage, high armour/defence is the better solution.

A Dervish does not take 2x the damage a warrior does.

Quote:

Originally Posted by blue.rellik

Will you stop being a damn strawman here and listen to what I said? A dervish [b]NEEDS[/]b to be able to have something for nearly every situation becuase they are affect by nearly every hate in the game.

Whoa what happened to these monks you speak of?

I can take a balanced build to deal with most things. Does not mean i am not dealing the damage too. I always know what i am facing in each area.. It's like, you go against an undead packed area without holy damage? Know the situation and build a bar for it. Warriors do not have the ability to deal with any situation. Just slap on a load of adrenaline skills, Heal sig, maybe a res and away they go.

Quote:

Originally Posted by blue.rellik

PvE monsters are terrible spikers.

This statement is just not true. In any way. Run in first, and take all the aggro as a melee char should do and you will get the hate from that whole mob thrown at you. But as a Warrior, don't worry i mean.. you have a shield after all.

Quote:

Originally Posted by blue.rellik

You have just removed ANY credibility you had. ANYONE can own monsters as long as they're not lvl 28+ so your point again is moot. If it's high end and you use Lyssa then you're not going through the precasting stuff

You asked if it was that simple. Then you state anyone can own any monster below lvl28. So why again would it not be simple? Do tell. You contradicted yourself there, not me. Or i am sorry, did you refer to PvE as only lvl28 monsters?

Quote:

Originally Posted by blue.rellik

What's my opinion? That VoS is stupid for PvE? That Dervishs suck? Maybe you can go through my posts in here, I never once said a warrior is better than a dervish nor a dervish sucks (I play both and although a warrior is my favourite class, I still enjoy playing a dervish). I was here to counter your arguements

Pretty much. Every single statement from you has been to argue Warrior > Dervish.

Government Flu · Sep 07, 2007, 09:03 AM // 09:03

Dervishes have superior self-healing and AoE abilities while Warriors provide far better damage absorption and party support. I have both classes and have extensively played both.

It all depends on a person's playing style. Dervishes are essentially a halfway point between the Warrior and Assassin. While the Warrior provides steady damage and high resistance to attack, the Assassin has highly offensive skills and extremely low defense, requiring use of shadow stepping to move in and out of the battlefield.

The Dervish combines these two classes. Using superior regeneration skills, the Dervish is able to continue staying in the frontline and will dish out more damage compared to a warrior due to his/her natural/skill-based AoE attacks. However, because the Dervish doesn't have the high armor of a warrior, they are more vulnerable to spikes, they can be crippled by enchantment removal, and they will take overall more damage, so they require a higher degree of maintenance.

So choose whatever you'd like.

~ Dan ~ · Sep 07, 2007, 09:50 AM // 09:50

Quote:

Originally Posted by Government Flu

Dervishes have superior self-healing and AoE abilities while Warriors provide far better damage absorption and party support. I have both classes and have extensively played both.

It all depends on a person's playing style. Dervishes are essentially a halfway point between the Warrior and Assassin. While the Warrior provides steady damage and high resistance to attack, the Assassin has highly offensive skills and extremely low defense, requiring use of shadow stepping to move in and out of the battlefield.

The Dervish combines these two classes. Using superior regeneration skills, the Dervish is able to continue staying in the frontline and will dish out more damage compared to a warrior due to his/her natural/skill-based AoE attacks. However, because the Dervish doesn't have the high armor of a warrior, they are more vulnerable to spikes, they can be crippled by enchantment removal, and they will take overall more damage, so they require a higher degree of maintenance.

So choose whatever you'd like.

QFT.Thank you. It seems every other post in this thread is just stating (in their opinion) that a Warrior is better than a Dervish.

Thread title is Warrior not useful? and the thread is actually "Derv is useless".

SotiCoto · Sep 07, 2007, 10:03 AM // 10:03

Warriors and Dervishes are nice.... but...

CA Assassins > Warriors & Dervishes.

Lawlz.
End of story.

[Justification? Wouldn't dream of it. This whole thread is a lol-fest, so you can't expect me to take this seriously, can you?]

Zev · Sep 07, 2007, 12:42 PM // 12:42

For those who would protest this thread and ask for its closure, I say that you don't understand why its still around. Leave the thread open, and you have a single thread for all the trolling, and childish arguing to reside. If you close it, all the tolling will spill out into the rest of the warrior and derv forums.

Keep it open, and in doing so keep the trolling busy in this thread, to remove it from the rest. That is what I'm assuming the mods are doing. Trolling and childish arguing is what 75% of internet discussion is, you can't avoid it. So you might as well contain it

~ Dan ~ · Sep 07, 2007, 01:05 PM // 13:05

yay!

12 chars >.<

haggus71 · Sep 07, 2007, 02:19 PM // 14:19

Hmmm, good point. hate it to be like EotN threads. Five of them all saying the same thing.

moko · Sep 07, 2007, 02:25 PM // 14:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zev

For those who would protest this thread and ask for its closure, I say that you don't understand why its still around. Leave the thread open, and you have a single thread for all the trolling, and childish arguing to reside. If you close it, all the tolling will spill out into the rest of the warrior and derv forums.

Keep it open, and in doing so keep the trolling busy in this thread, to remove it from the rest. That is what I'm assuming the mods are doing. Trolling and childish arguing is what 75% of internet discussion is, you can't avoid it. So you might as well contain it

lol you users are funny.

Darkpower Alchemist · Sep 08, 2007, 08:22 AM // 08:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by Age

th
The thing is I do grasp it very well but like I said Tanks don't deal damage they absorb it.That is not what the Warrior in GW is used for they are use to Dish out damage in other words damage dealers.What you suggest goes against the very nature of the game mechanics for the Warrior.I have been playing since way back in beta.

No Avatar belongs on a Warriors bar as they can't use it due to the factey don't have the primary attribute to support it.You are giving bad suggestions here as you are in the Monk forum.

The abuse I am recieving is ridiculous, yet this is exactly what I've been talking about. A lack of understanding what you read. Did I ever say that AoB should be on a Warrior bar? Hell NO! That is foolish. Please read more carefully.

LMAOROFL...you are too damn funny!

Quote:

Originally Posted by Government Flu

The Dervish combines these two classes. Using superior regeneration skills, the Dervish is able to continue staying in the frontline and will dish out more damage compared to a warrior due to his/her natural/skill-based AoE attacks. However, because the Dervish doesn't have the high armor of a warrior, they are more vulnerable to spikes, they can be crippled by enchantment removal, and they will take overall more damage, so they require a higher degree of maintenance.

I totally agree with this statement in reference to the dervish. Also,[wiki]Eternal Aura[/wiki] is not just a recharge enchant, but deals a large amount of holy AoE damage. All PvE dervs should use it, as well as a secondary derv (W/D) using derv skills can also use it. It's abit energy intense, but if you use a derv skill on a warrior bar, then think about it. It may not fit your bar, so don't force it to keep a minor skill running.

A Leprechaun · Sep 08, 2007, 09:36 AM // 09:36

Why are people even arguing over which is better? People are not going to stop playing one or the other on the basis of this thread. They both do pretty much the same job, but in different ways, yes a dervish is more vulnerable, but then again it can in the right circumstances survive longer. So what if a warrior needs more monk support, it can thus fill its bar up with attacks dish out insane damage.

This thread could go on forever.

In answer to the thread title, warriors are usefull.

~A Leprechaun~

blue.rellik · Sep 08, 2007, 10:31 AM // 10:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by dan-the-noob

Yes you know i'm lieing because you almost definately have to put 8 skills dedicated to damage to pull off the big DPS....

But if you're spending half the time removing hexes and healing teammates then you're not hitting things. When you're not hitting things then you're not doing DPS

Quote:

A Dervish does not take 2x the damage a warrior does.

Dervish base armour (against physical) = 70
Warrior base armour (against physical) = 100
Warrior with shield = 116

-/+ 40 armour results in double/halved damage. That's a 46 armour difference right there.

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Whoa what happened to these monks you speak of?

I can take a balanced build to deal with most things. Does not mean i am not dealing the damage too. I always know what i am facing in each area.. It's like, you go against an undead packed area without holy damage? Know the situation and build a bar for it. Warriors do not have the ability to deal with any situation. Just slap on a load of adrenaline skills, Heal sig, maybe a res and away they go.

Ignore my point for the win? You said Dervishs can 'counter pretty much anything' and I said that's because 'nearly anything can counter a dervish'. That's my point, where did I mention monks in that part? I was talking about monks for the DSlash DPS build, you obviously run that type of build when you have some monks with you.

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This statement is just not true. In any way. Run in first, and take all the aggro as a melee char should do and you will get the hate from that whole mob thrown at you. But as a Warrior, don't worry i mean.. you have a shield after all.

Do you even know what the hell spiking is?

Quote:

You asked if it was that simple. Then you state anyone can own any monster below lvl28. So why again would it not be simple? Do tell. You contradicted yourself there, not me. Or i am sorry, did you refer to PvE as only lvl28 monsters?

Do you even read what you posted. I pointing out that VoS is a bad elite to use and you said you it's good 'because you precast everything', you even said you can own most mobs in under 10 seconds. However you then said if you're in a high end area, you use Lyssa. That means you don't use VoS in lvl 28 areas. I retorted saying that anyone can own lvl 20 - 26 areas so basing VoS being good because you can own in a area where anyone else can is useless.

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Pretty much. Every single statement from you has been to argue Warrior > Dervish.

Where did I state that? I was pointing out some facts. Can you make a build that can out DPS a DSlash +conjure? If you do then I'll apologise for everything I said about Warriors being best at DPS but until then.....

Darkpower Alchemist · Sep 08, 2007, 10:54 AM // 10:54

With critical hits, spiking damage, and [skill]Wearying Strike[/skill] in play with [skill]Conjure Flame[/skill]+[skill]Heart of fury[/skill]- I believe that argument of High(er) DPS can be made.

The real question should be is it neccessary to make that arguement? That answer would be no. Due to sword/axe speed difference and the ability to maintain melee range only the spike could keep the sword damage lower in such a comparison, yet Axe has a decent chance of making up the gap to some degree thanks to faster attack timing for the 2 warrior weapons compared to the scythe. It may very well balance out at some point without any real difference in overall damage output being presented. I've been eviscerated,finaled and wearying striked for 100+ damage so they all are quite capable of doing what they are needed to do.

The comparison is getting old, let's just let it go. They both have a role to play. Period.

~ Dan ~ · Sep 08, 2007, 01:32 PM // 13:32

Quote:

Originally Posted by blue.rellik

But if you're spending half the time removing hexes and healing teammates then you're not hitting things. When you're not hitting things then you're not doing DPS

In my first reply to you, i stated the situations that VoS is good in (and i use it for). That's dual farming tombs (along with most areas in the game) with a hero bonder. I'll also tell you now it works for running and farming FoW beach + cave. I'll also tell you no other elite fits the job better. My point is, My use of VoS and my highest DPS build.. are different.

Quote:

Originally Posted by blue.rellik

Dervish base armour (against physical) = 70
Warrior base armour (against physical) = 100
Warrior with shield = 116

-/+ 40 armour results in double/halved damage. That's a 46 armour difference right there.

Where the hell did this come from? Each dervish piece = 70AL. Warrior is 80. So without the shield, you have 10 more. So even with your shield that's what, 26 more armour? The ability to have 10 pips of regen deals with that. And before you say "so you load up 8 enchants to counter degen"... I run a prot monk hero, i take damage = he'll prot me. More enchants = More regen.

Quote:

Originally Posted by blue.rellik

Ignore my point for the win? You said Dervishs can 'counter pretty much anything' and I said that's because 'nearly anything can counter a dervish'. That's my point, where did I mention monks in that part? I was talking about monks for the DSlash DPS build, you obviously run that type of build when you have some monks with you.

???? I'll use a simple example here non-derv related. An ele can be vulnerable to melee as it's a squishie, yes? So they take Mist Form, thus countering that weakness. So they are no longer affected by melee hate. (don't comment on mist form.. idc if it's a good elite or not, merely an example.) So your point is, a Dervish bar can have counters to "things that counter a dervish" but yet those things still work?

Sorry i may have explained that poorly.. I found it hard finding words to put the idiotic statement you made into a situation.

Quote:

Originally Posted by blue.rellik

Do you even know what the hell spiking is?

Do you even play PvE?

Quote:

Originally Posted by blue.rellik

Do you even read what you posted. I pointing out that VoS is a bad elite to use and you said you it's good 'because you precast everything', you even said you can own most mobs in under 10 seconds. However you then said if you're in a high end area, you use Lyssa. That means you don't use VoS in lvl 28 areas. I retorted saying that anyone can own lvl 20 - 26 areas so basing VoS being good because you can own in a area where anyone else can is useless.

I stated VoS is a good elite as it gives you immunity to casters, which is superior in certain places.. i.e. covering bonds in dual tombs.

Quote:

Originally Posted by blue.rellik

Where did I state that? I was pointing out some facts. Can you make a build that can out DPS a DSlash +conjure? If you do then I'll apologise for everything I said about Warriors being best at DPS but until then.....

Review your posts, then seriously ask me that again. I can tell by the manner of your replies you don't think a Dervish can compete with Warriors, as.. every one of your posts has been made to argue in favour of Warrior, and criticize the Dervish class.

And... Dslash is the best DPS build in the entire game. Strange how every warrior prefers to run eviscerate now.. or that ele is the win button in PvE. Mmmhm I guess unconditional DW > Dslash bar. Ok.

Peter Panic · Sep 08, 2007, 04:52 PM // 16:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by dan-the-noob

Where the hell did this come from? Each dervish piece = 70AL. Warrior is 80. So without the shield, you have 10 more. So even with your shield that's what, 26 more armour? The ability to have 10 pips of regen deals with that. And before you say "so you load up 8 enchants to counter degen"... I run a prot monk hero, i take damage = he'll prot me. More enchants = More regen.

warriors have base AL of 80 +20 vs physical on their armor. 80+20=100. then add in a sheild and other things, u get 116 armor vs physical on every peice of armor. dervs have a base AL of 70. no additions, no sheild, and theres prolly 1 or 2 ppl who use a defensive scythe, so that means that warriors have 116-70=46 armor more than dervs. this means that warriors take less than half the damage than dervishes do. i dont care what ur doing with ur derv, a warrior is going to be better in my opinion.

and to all the ppl who are talking about how dervs with avatar of balthazar to make urself better than warriors, that just takes u up to *ALMOST* equal with a warrior, and even then, ur giving up a skill slot, an ELITE skill slot at that, just to be in par with warriors that dont have any buffs on! add WY into the mix, and im sorry, but warriors just win.

~ Dan ~ · Sep 08, 2007, 10:53 PM // 22:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by Peter Panic

warriors have base AL of 80 +20 vs physical on their armor. 80+20=100. then add in a sheild and other things, u get 116 armor vs physical on every peice of armor. dervs have a base AL of 70. no additions, no sheild, and theres prolly 1 or 2 ppl who use a defensive scythe, so that means that warriors have 116-70=46 armor more than dervs. this means that warriors take less than half the damage than dervishes do. i dont care what ur doing with ur derv, a warrior is going to be better in my opinion.

Oh right, a Warrior is better than a Dervish because it has more armour? What a childish statement...

Quote:

Originally Posted by Peter Panic

and to all the ppl who are talking about how dervs with avatar of balthazar to make urself better than warriors, that just takes u up to *ALMOST* equal with a warrior, and even then, ur giving up a skill slot, an ELITE skill slot at that, just to be in par with warriors that dont have any buffs on! add WY into the mix, and im sorry, but warriors just win.

But AoB is pathetic in the 1st place...