Curse

Carboplatin · Nov 30, 2008, 09:42 AM // 09:42

Quote:

Originally Posted by -Lotus-

not that hard to do really...
most of the time scythe warrior will probably do more damage, but triple chop/cyclone has so much more potential.

infinity > three

In the perfect world MAYBE.

Scythe Warrior DPS is win.

Tho ES is more utility. It all depends on your team build. With a good team that KD isnt even needed, things drop so fast with a ws scythe warrior that they are dead before they can cast a spell.

Chthon · Nov 30, 2008, 03:47 PM // 15:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by R Langdon

In the perfect world MAYBE.

Scythe Warrior DPS is win.

Assuming a team with no inter-build planning, a scythe warrior is at the top of the DPS heap. As soon as you add a buff-bitch or curser, the equation changes.

First, consider Orders+GDW. That's a ~+30 to every hit. Axe's ability to score more hits through unlimited AoE and a faster attack speed means it multiplies that ~+30 by a larger factor. The leveraging of the damage from Orders+GDW quickly outgrows the baseline advantage scythe has.

Second, consider Splinter. Splinter is almost always run with a 10+ spec to get 4 charges. What happens when you hit 3 targets with a scythe? Splinter goes off 3 times, and anything that survives usually goes into its AoE flee AI mode before you get the next swing off. The fourth charge is often wasted. Unlimited AoE skills can trigger all four charges in one pop.

Third, consider MoP & Barbs. For one thing, triggering MoP/Barbs (which you should, since MoP can do far more damage than you can) means giving up Aura of Holy Might. When you've got an anti-synergy like that on your hands, it's time to think about giving up on the weaker build altogether. For another thing, it comes back to attack speed. Axe (and sword) can trigger MoP/Barbs more often, and, again, the damage you get by leveraging MoP/Barbs outweighs scythe's advantage in base damage.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Saraneth

Whirlwind Attack can be used on a scythewar as well. If another player is buffing you with gdw, then aoe kd isn't out of the question either.

True. If you've got a pal with a high Deldimor rank, your whirlwind attack turns into an AoE KD, and that makes earthshaker a lot less appealing. However, it does not make scythe more appealing. Axe and sword can both spam out whirlwind attack faster and more reliably than scythe can.

Bobby2 · Nov 30, 2008, 10:20 PM // 22:20

Wow, that's a nice post
Time to nitpick

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chthon

First, consider Orders+GDW. That's a ~+30 to every hit. Axe's ability to score more hits through unlimited AoE and a faster attack speed means it multiplies that ~+30 by a larger factor. The leveraging of the damage from Orders+GDW quickly outgrows the baseline advantage scythe has.

The axe does have the faster attack speed. On the other hand, a Scythe has the ability to hit 3 peepz with a normal auto attack = bigger abuse of Orders/GDW imho.

EDIT: notion of 'unlimited AoE' is wrong. Not every swing is TC/Cyclone/WWA.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chthon

Second, consider Splinter. Splinter is almost always run with a 10+ spec to get 4 charges. What happens when you hit 3 targets with a scythe? Splinter goes off 3 times, and anything that survives usually goes into its AoE flee AI mode before you get the next swing off. The fourth charge is often wasted. Unlimited AoE skills can trigger all four charges in one pop.

Well, there's always bodyblocking. Or [deep freeze].

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chthon

Third, consider MoP & Barbs. For one thing, triggering MoP/Barbs (which you should, since MoP can do far more damage than you can) means giving up Aura of Holy Might. When you've got an anti-synergy like that on your hands, it's time to think about giving up on the weaker build altogether. For another thing, it comes back to attack speed. Axe (and sword) can trigger MoP/Barbs more often, and, again, the damage you get by leveraging MoP/Barbs outweighs scythe's advantage in base damage.

Don't attempt this race because minions will win?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chthon

True. If you've got a pal with a high Deldimor rank, your whirlwind attack turns into an AoE KD, and that makes earthshaker a lot less appealing. However, it does not make scythe more appealing. Axe and sword can both spam out whirlwind attack faster and more reliably than scythe can.

Disagree. Hitting multiple foes is good for building adren, Axe NEEDS TC and Cyclone to even compete in that area and I really don't know which skills you had in mind when you considered Sword.

Tyla · Nov 30, 2008, 10:56 PM // 22:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bobby2

I really don't know which skills you had in mind when you considered Sword.

It's not the skills, it's the epic bravery of a He-Man!

Oh, and scythes will output more Whirlwind Attack, even more if you add on the IAS attacks such as Protectors' Strike.

MisterB · Nov 30, 2008, 11:03 PM // 23:03

[Echo] + [Whirlwind Attack] = [Whirlwind Attack][Whirlwind Attack][Whirlwind Attack][Whirlwind Attack][Whirlwind Attack][Whirlwind Attack][Whirlwind Attack][Whirlwind Attack][Whirlwind Attack][Whirlwind Attack], etc.

Unlimited Axe or Sword AoE every second. If you have no use for your secondary, that is.

**Marty Silverblade** · Dec 01, 2008, 12:27 AM // 00:27

Quote:

Originally Posted by MisterB

[Echo] + [Whirlwind Attack] = [Whirlwind Attack][Whirlwind Attack][Whirlwind Attack][Whirlwind Attack][Whirlwind Attack][Whirlwind Attack][Whirlwind Attack][Whirlwind Attack][Whirlwind Attack][Whirlwind Attack], etc.

Unlimited Axe or Sword AoE every second. If you have no use for your secondary, that is.

You could save your elite slot and secondary by throwing it WA on a Godmode bar. In areas where it won't matter if SY drops for a second or two at times, I don't suppose it matters if WA screws with your adrenaline.

Chthon · Dec 02, 2008, 02:16 AM // 02:16

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bobby2

I really don't know which skills you had in mind when you considered Sword.

[Whirlwind Attack] + [Dragon Slash] + [For Great Justice] (+ [Enduring Harmony])

WW --> SY! --> autoattack --> DS --> Repeat

Lyynyyrd · Dec 02, 2008, 02:28 AM // 02:28

echo/whirlwind attack

Bobby2 · Dec 02, 2008, 04:18 AM // 04:18

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chthon

[Whirlwind Attack] + [Dragon Slash] + [For Great Justice] (+ [Enduring Harmony])

WW --> SY! --> autoattack --> DS --> Repeat

hardly focused AoE, crowded bar is crowded

Neo Atomisk · Dec 02, 2008, 02:15 PM // 14:15

I actually use both builds, lol.
ES is great support, but if your looking for a crazy DPS build, endurance scythe is the way to go. Infinite energy+spamming en attack skills= win.

However, Earth Shaker is great if your team is already a DPS monster. Be sure to ask your party members what they're using, and see which is better, AoE KD, or massive DPS. and be sure to carry 2 sets of armor so you can switch quickly.

illidan009 · Dec 03, 2008, 03:13 AM // 03:13

Scythes looks cooler. Don't argue, you know it's true. That being said, SCYTHEWAR.

_Nihilist_ · Dec 03, 2008, 03:40 AM // 03:40

Looks < Functionality illidan009. Most of the scythe skins in GW are positively 'meh'. Most of the hammer skins are too, but the few (on both weapons) that look good, REALLY look good.

If your team needs damage mitigation, it's Earth Shaker. Hands down. End of Story.

If your team just wants stuff to explode, then, depending on the area you are in, it would prolly be a ScytheWarr.

Neo Atomisk · Dec 09, 2008, 05:19 PM // 17:19

I believe we can nail this down to...

Scythewar=Generally better for NORMAL (this generally excludes elite areas) PvE / NM

Earthshaker=Generally better for HARD MODE and elite areas.

For reasons stated by many before me.

Sciros Darkblade · Dec 23, 2008, 06:02 AM // 06:02

Scythe wars can be resilient enough, at least to make up for an ADD monk. Dolyak Sig + Vital Boon + Twin Moon Sweep gives up some DPS for more robustness. Depending on what you're doing, that tradeoff is worth it (for instance, in Alliance Battles where Dolyak is not a problem at all since you probably want to stick around at a cap point for 20 sec anyway once you get there, especially if you're solo or duo-capping).

Nowadays I use a W/D scythe build with Asuran Scan in PVE which can yield something like 110-125 dps over half a minute (master of damage) consistently on its own. It's good fun.

It's kinda funny, but I actually was the first warrior ever to use an Endurance W/D build. As soon as scythes appeared in the testing server (back in my alpha days), I made a War's Endurance W/D scythe build. That day, heh.

**Marty Silverblade** · Dec 23, 2008, 10:09 AM // 10:09

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sciros Darkblade

Dolyak Sig + Vital Boon + Twin Moon Sweep gives up some DPS for more robustness.

Dolyak Signet gives up 'some' DPS? Once something even thinks of moving, your DPS will drop to approximately 0. Even in PvE where you could just start whacking the closest non-moving target, you're wasting time and a skill slot.

PS: If the monk fails, its not your fault as long as you do your job (blow stuff up). Getting a good monk > compromising.

-Lotus- · Dec 23, 2008, 04:18 PM // 16:18

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sciros Darkblade

Scythe wars can be resilient enough, at least to make up for an ADD monk. Dolyak Sig + Vital Boon + Twin Moon Sweep gives up some DPS for more robustness. Depending on what you're doing, that tradeoff is worth it (for instance, in Alliance Battles where Dolyak is not a problem at all since you probably want to stick around at a cap point for 20 sec anyway once you get there, especially if you're solo or duo-capping).

Did you just suggest lowing your movement speed in ab, the most mobile format in the game? really?

Dolyak is a bad skill... everywhere. its totally pointless. it gives you higher armr but takes away any ability to avoid damage so youu will probably e taing more hits anyways.

vital boon and twin moon are nothing to write home about either.

_Nihilist_ · Dec 24, 2008, 12:05 AM // 00:05

Use [[Dolyak Signet] for Farming. Other than that, leave it at home. What -Lotus- says about mobility in AB is correct, your argument that it takes that much time to cap a shrine in AB is about right, but why waste a skillslot to reduce your mobility? What happens when a trio of Eles decides to ruin your day? Bonus damage from attack skills ignores armor, so slowing yourself to a crawl doesn't really help vs. Sins or Rangers (many of which use hp degen with a vengeance in AB) or Dervs or other Warriors.

It might work on a n00b, but anyone who's played for more than a few months is going to point and laugh, kite out of the way, and watch you burn in AoE/degen/Sin-gank.

RotteN · Dec 24, 2008, 07:44 AM // 07:44

Normal mode : Scythe DPS (no one needs defense in NM)

Hard mode : Earth Shaker

More or less sums it up, all DPS discussions aside.