Curse

Banane-O-Man · Apr 16, 2010, 10:58 PM // 22:58

So far I've come up with the following build, but I need other fun warrior discord caller builds. I like doing a lot of damage and hate to always have to keep some things up like the w/d build.

Dusk_ · Apr 16, 2010, 11:14 PM // 23:14

Don't run Discord with Warriors.

Just don't.

No.

Just. No.

**Marty Silverblade** · Apr 16, 2010, 11:27 PM // 23:27

For conditions, put Withering Aura on the MB.

You'll probably have hexes on the Necro's somewhere, but AScan is good if you've got the energy and are running a single target damage build (like DSlash).

Seriously, if you're running something sub-optimal to satisfy a sub-optimal build like Discordway you're doing something wrong. Normal War builds work fine.

WhiteAsIce · Apr 17, 2010, 12:09 AM // 00:09

Nothing wrong with running Discordway on a Warrior.

Well, you want an on-demand condition skill. While Jagged Strike is an unconditional condition skill, I agree with Marty that you should stick with normal Warrior builds. I would go with axes for Dismember, but there are other choices for sure.

Banane-O-Man · Apr 17, 2010, 12:14 AM // 00:14

Well with a friend I run normal warrior builds but when I'm just with my heroes and henchmen, I like to have direct requirement for both so they can cast discord.

Or should I just stick to sabway with 2 melee henchmen and 2 monks?

What's MB btw?

Arrogant Bastard · Apr 17, 2010, 12:22 AM // 00:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by Banane-O-Man

Well with a friend I run normal warrior builds but when I'm just with my heroes and henchmen, I like to have direct requirement for both so they can cast discord.

Or should I just stick to sabway with 2 melee henchmen and 2 monks?

What's MB btw?

MB = minion bomber

By normal warrior builds I think they mean the entire h/h teams. They are probably referring to using heroes to buff your warrior (soh/splinter/prots/etc) rather than using something like discord or sab.

Eragon Zarroc · Apr 17, 2010, 12:33 AM // 00:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dusk_

Don't run Discord with Warriors.

Just don't.

No.

Just. No.

My gwamm warrior used nothing but discord for the majority of everything...

d-slash SY war gives ur squishies armor while they rape everything.

Banane-O-Man · Apr 17, 2010, 12:46 AM // 00:46

Well now im running withering aura on my curse discord hero, it works great!
But I don't want to sacrifice the healing for splinter weapon, any ideas?

**Marty Silverblade** · Apr 17, 2010, 01:07 AM // 01:07

Quote:

Originally Posted by Banane-O-Man

Well now im running withering aura on my curse discord hero, it works great!
But I don't want to sacrifice the healing for splinter weapon, any ideas?

If you want us to fix your Discord bars*, you'll have to post them.

*I'd fix them by dumping them altogether and starting again. Seriously, Discord is only worshiped by so many people because those people suck and Discord works in such a way that it doesn't matter what you do. You're a physical, try running physical based builds.

Look at these: 1 2 3. That's not exactly what I'm running, but it's a million times better than Discord. That ER probably provides more healing and support than all the Resto stuff that's consuming one and a half bars (referencing the Discord build on PvX). Getting the resto out of the way means you can spec into attributes that actually get the job done.

Banane-O-Man · Apr 17, 2010, 01:12 AM // 01:12

Well how good are these builds in terms of support. I run the basic pvx builds, the only thing I changed is that I replace enfeebling blood by Withering Aura. And I also run discord so I can duo it with my friend, we do a lot of stuff together.

**Marty Silverblade** · Apr 17, 2010, 01:45 AM // 01:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by Banane-O-Man

Well how good are these builds in terms of support. I run the basic pvx builds, the only thing I changed is that I replace enfeebling blood by Withering Aura. And I also run discord so I can duo it with my friend, we do a lot of stuff together.

The support is fine. As people have mentioned, they've done all their vanquishing/HM Missions with Discord. The problem is the offense is seriously lacking.

Referencing this: http://pvx.wikia.com/wiki/Build%3ATeam_-_Discordway

First hero bar: Discord is worth 35DPS, and there's a bit from the Shamblings as well.
Second hero bar: 37DPS from Discord.
Third hero bar: Should produce some half-decent DPS from the MB bits. 38DPS from Discord.

Discord isn't nearly as impressive when you look at it like that.

Another thing: People seem to have their goals confused. The point isn't to make some uber impenetrable fortress of unkillableness. The point is to kill everything. You need enough healing and support to be able to stay alive long enough to unload tons of damage. Offense really is the best defence in PvE. Not to say sloppy defence is acceptable, but filling multiple bars with resto stuff when one ER will do the job (and do it better) is just slowing you down.

Now lets compare the DPS of the bars I posted.

ER hero: None. However, ER allows you to pretty much go full offense (or offensive utility) on the other bars.
SoS Smiter: 36DPS from SoS, 12 from Bloodsong, 10.3*no of adjacent foes from AR, 118DPS from SW (assuming you've got 3 adjacent foes, which is reasonable if you've got half-decent aggro techniques), 49DPS from SoH (assuming it's on 2 physicals with 1.33 second weapons with IAS's), plus a bit more from Smite Hex+Condition. All up, thats 256.2DPS (AR follows the same assumption as SW). That's more than your entire hero setup, and it's managed to get a con and hex removal in.
MB: A large chunk. Not going to bother working it out, since it'll be annoying and I've made my point.

tl;dr: Discord supports fine but wastes pretty much most of the bars and attributes on it. No room for offense (don't tell me Discord alone is good DPS) and no room to put physical buffs without sacrificing support.

Banane-O-Man · Apr 17, 2010, 02:10 AM // 02:10

Hmm good points there, discord seems to be good in duo but on single with henchies and with warriors, the damage must be much higher.

But in those 3 builds, the dps could be increase by barbs, MoP and putrid bile.

What henchies would you recommend with those 3 builds?

Edit: On the 3rd build (MB) I'd replace reverse hex by dwayna's sorrow or something else, there is no really problematic hexes in pve.

**Marty Silverblade** · Apr 17, 2010, 02:26 AM // 02:26

Quote:

Originally Posted by Banane-O-Man

Hmm good points there, discord seems to be good in duo but on single with henchies and with warriors, the damage must be much higher.

...Don't get what this means...

Quote:

But in those 3 builds, the dps could be increase by barbs, MoP and putrid bile.

True. However, there's only so many slots and so many attribute points. By all means, shift stuff around to fit curses in. Again, I don't run those bars, just the general concept. I'd post them, but I modified them after the Blood buff and haven't had a chance to test (I've got a lot to do this year, and play testing new hero builds isn't on the top of my list of things to do in spare time (gaming-wise, it's currently 4th)).

Quote:

What henchies would you recommend with those 3 builds?

Monk hench + 3 physicals. Maybe drop a physical for a support if you really needed one. I don't consider henchies too much though. Maybe I would if there was one universal set throughout the entire game (and I could memorise the general build concept of each one), but with so many I just take the physicals depending on which ones sound good. Melee physicals come before ranged though.

EDIT:

*DS requires Healing Prayers.
*You don't really need that extra healing. Load up those bars (or something like them) and play aggressively; focusing on ripping through the foes rather than sitting around swinging a lump of metal occasionally and letting the heroes do some lousy DPS. You'll see the ER provides a massive amount of support. Note: that ER bar has Jamei's Gaze instead of Infuse Health. I have no idea why.
*Hexes tend to be annoying rather than game breakers. Consider those stupid Mesmer plant things in Istan/Vabbi that shut down your adrenaline and slow you down. Also consider the undead in the Desolation that make you miss and whatnot (I just know they're annoying).
*It's really up to you what to do with utility. That's the point. A lot of people used to Discord don't know how to make simple adjustments to their utility when they get repeatedly wiped. Get out of that mindset, and customise your builds according to what you're going up against. It's PvE, and it's the biggest advantage you have.
*I'd go with Convert Hexes rather than Reverse Hex anyway. Maybe throw it on the ER somewhere. 2 heals is bad for heroes when they've got Infuse Health on their bar anyway.

Arrogant Bastard · Apr 17, 2010, 02:31 AM // 02:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by Banane-O-Man

Hmm good points there, discord seems to be good in duo but on single with henchies and with warriors, the damage must be much higher.

But in those 3 builds, the dps could be increase by barbs, MoP and putrid bile.

What henchies would you recommend with those 3 builds?

Edit: On the 3rd build (MB) I'd replace reverse hex by dwayna's sorrow or something else, there is no really problematic hexes in pve.

You can bring curses on the MM.

As far as henchies, you can just bring the 2 healers and w/e you want. You will be doing most of the damage. I wouldn't bring physical henchies because your Rit hero may start using splinter/AC on them when you can make better use of it.

Running 100b with this type of setup will literally blow up mobs in a few seconds if you aggro it properly.

For the ER hero, I'd use Infuse and Dismiss Condition. In heavy hex areas throw on Convert Hexes and if there is massive blind spam bring Draw Conditions or Purifying Veil.

Andemius · Apr 17, 2010, 09:44 AM // 09:44

Quote:

Don't run Discord with Warriors.

Just don't.

No.

Just. No.

I run Discord on my warrior, works fine.

here's the build I use, in case ya wanna know, but i just tank and rely on party to output most of the damage.

1.Brawling Headbutt
2.Save Yourselves!
3.Sneak Attack (quick recharge use condition)
4.Power Attack
5.Enraging Charge
6.Warrior's Endurance
7.Lion's Comfort
8.Parasitic Bond (cheap quick recharge hex)

Banane-O-Man · Apr 17, 2010, 06:51 PM // 18:51

I remember using the same builds (the physical hero set up) as Marty posted in the past, the heroes seems to have difficulty running those.

The issues:
On the rit bar, they seem to like spamming spirit siphon.
On the ER, ele heroes doesn't know how to effectively run the infuse build.
For the MB, I would prefer using curses like barbs and MoP.

Why not just run sabway and replace the SS curse necro by SoS rit hero? But there will still be no curse :/

Banane-O-Man · Apr 17, 2010, 10:29 PM // 22:29

I've come up with these builds and not sure if they are that good, tell me what you guys think.

Restore Rit:

12+1+1 Restore
12 Smiting
3 Spawning

Here I'm scared it might be too energy intensive for my rit.

SoS Necro:

12 Channeling
10+1+1 Curses
8+1 Soul reaping
2 Restore

Enfeebling Blood and rip enchantment can be replace by whatever curse or channeling skill needed.

Minion Bomber:

12+1+1 Death Magic
8+1 Soul Reaping
9 Prot
5 Healing

Can replace putrid and dwayna's sorrow by infuse condition and Foul Feast

Dusk_ · Apr 17, 2010, 10:52 PM // 22:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by Andemius

I run Discord on my warrior, works fine.

here's the build I use, in case ya wanna know, but i just tank and rely on party to output most of the damage.

1.Brawling Headbutt
2.Save Yourselves!
3.Sneak Attack (quick recharge use condition)
4.Power Attack
5.Enraging Charge
6.Warrior's Endurance
7.Lion's Comfort
8.Parasitic Bond (cheap quick recharge hex)

I didn't say that it didn't work. Hell, a lot of things "work" in PvE for this game. That doesn't mean it's good.

H/H Discordway is terrible for killing things without player input. True, 2 full volleys of Discords will kill most normal enemies in the game, but keep your hero bars open and see how often they actually fire off Discord ASAP.

The best that you'll see on an average mob is a single shot per necro, followed by DN spam, hex casting and healing, which usually results in a 5-10 second kill on average (which is fairly lame). The only way to guarantee a fast kill is if you're bringing "Finish Him", and apply a Hex and Condition ASAP.

Discord is a good, mindless copy-paste build, especially for classes that lack the huge damage dealing ability that offensive ones do (like Monks and Mesmers).

A Warrior is a damage dealer, though, and one of the strongest ones in the game. A good W/D bar can match Discord's DPS on it's own, which should tell you right there why gimping your bar for your Heroes is a bad idea.

Banane-O-Man · Apr 18, 2010, 04:10 AM // 04:10

Lol I'll just run sabway.

Arrogant Bastard · Apr 18, 2010, 04:30 AM // 04:30

You asked for help and people gave you plenty of good advice.

If you need to be spoon feed a proper build, here is one:

MM Bomber + Curses - http://pvx.wikia.com/wiki/Special:Pv...Submit+Que ry
SoS Buffer - http://pvx.wikia.com/wiki/Special:Pv...Submit+Q uery
ER Protter - http://pvx.wikia.com/wiki/Special:Pv...o=Submit+Query

Try it with an AoE build like 100b or ES for best results and watch mobs go boom.

You can switch shit around. Important things are: SoH, Splinter, AR, prots, condition removal.