Curse

Owik Gall · Jul 31, 2010, 04:57 AM // 04:57

I would suggest that without using the EotN pve skills, go with Hundred Blades builds. You might have more fun with that instead of DS, which is just spamming DS instead of wreak havoc with aoe. It does depend on your play style, though. I find DS a lot easier to maintain SY than the HH mainly because you get a load of adrenaline each hit.

zolkarnain · Aug 02, 2010, 03:10 PM // 15:10

DS + BH (equip Stonefist) --> pretty nice Knock-lock

War with scythe running War Endurance + EotN buff can really pack a punch. Again, as KingCrab wrote that he wanted a Sword warrior; all about looking good ;-)

Luminarus · Aug 25, 2010, 12:41 PM // 12:41

Ignore Brawling Headbutt, tbh I wouldnt even staple it in that build. IMO the 'staple' DSlash build is:

Enraging, Flail, FGJ, D-Slash, SY. You then have 3 optionals for 2 pve skills of your choice, and 1 normal. If you dont have eotn pve skills, then I would probably go with WWA, S&M, and Enduring Harmony.

kanuks · Aug 25, 2010, 01:55 PM // 13:55

DS builds are severely overrated.
Single target damage = slow as hell.

I beat every singles areas that have access to henchies in hard mode with heroes and henchies and no consumables using a 100b build. All except battle of lion's arch (Nobody did it h/h in hm yet).

Just use heroes that buffs yourself. I use splinter, soh and judge's insight. Use enraging charge to move to mobs that are adjacent to each other. With 2foes next to each other, the dps is already better than DS. With a little bit body-blocking skills you get the best dps in the game against large mobs.

100b goes through blind and blocking while DS utterly sucks in these conditions.

Beomagi · Aug 27, 2010, 05:44 PM // 17:44

Quote:

Originally Posted by kanuks

DS builds are severely overrated.
Single target damage = slow as hell.

I beat every singles areas that have access to henchies in hard mode with heroes and henchies and no consumables using a 100b build. All except battle of lion's arch (Nobody did it h/h in hm yet).

Just use heroes that buffs yourself. I use splinter, soh and judge's insight. Use enraging charge to move to mobs that are adjacent to each other. With 2foes next to each other, the dps is already better than DS. With a little bit body-blocking skills you get the best dps in the game against large mobs.

100b goes through blind and blocking while DS utterly sucks in these conditions.

I know there's a lot of love for 100b, and my guildies use it too, but against high armor, it just seems so weak.
It requires buffs - MoP, BUH, EVSoH (or as they call it, rapeward) to really shine.

Without EVSoH, damage is weak vs high armor. I hit a destroyer during buff downtime with it. Saw some yellow 4s, and I SWEAR they /laugh-ed. If you use splinter - doesn't the trigger from the 100b bonus subtract from the splinter count? MoP may be more useful for this specifically? Barbs too.

It's actually because of this I use daggers. I still take aoe buffing hench, but I don't feel as dependent on them. Splinter would work the same anyway. I just don't get all 4 splinter hits in the same period of time.

DS "works" because the bonus ignores armor. Yes, missing with it sucks because it introduces downtime, that goes for ANY high adrenaline skill. With splinter and MoP you're still getting decent AoE, but the single target damage is higher no? - oc assuming you're not in an area with block, but then in pve, you should build accordingly anyway. Don't get me wrong though, I'm not saying 100b is superior or inferior to DS. I dislike DS personally - I hate the downtime.

Crassus Praetor · Aug 27, 2010, 06:27 PM // 18:27

The yellow numbers might not be as big using 100b and therefore not as aesthetically pleasing, but a lot of the damage (i.e. from buffs) doesn't show up on the play screen so the AoE can be underrated.

I tend to use 100b more than DS and although I find single target attacking frustrating when using 100b, when I find a large group to AoE to death it's worth it.

Beomagi · Aug 27, 2010, 10:03 PM // 22:03

Quote:

Originally Posted by Crassus Praetor

The yellow numbers might not be as big using 100b and therefore not as aesthetically pleasing, but a lot of the damage (i.e. from buffs) doesn't show up on the play screen so the AoE can be underrated.

I tend to use 100b more than DS and although I find single target attacking frustrating when using 100b, when I find a large group to AoE to death it's worth it.

Ok let's consider the buffs.
It's physical damage hitting everything.

Barbs is triggered twice on a hexed foe.
EVSoH is triggered for each damage packet
Whirlwind is probably one of the most powerful attacks, since if you hit N enemies, each is hit N times by 100B giving damage from 100B equal to N^2.
Mark of pain like barbs is triggered twich for that target.

Splinter weapon uses a counter - so having hb doesn't benefit as much - it makes more of an aoe spike, especially with whirlsind or sun and moon slash.

So yes, you do proc more but it depends on what procs you have. If it's splinter only - as many pugs I've seen, you benefit the least, and 100B isn't necessary.

After thinking about it, I think the biggest bonus is that it procs buffs if you're blind. I don't see many with barbs or mop.

The weakpoint is single target and not being buffed. I guess I should give it another try.

Has anyone tried using auspicious parry? It appears capable of fueling adrenaline based attacks pretty quick - final trust, galrath, brawling headbutt. Of course, it's a stance so perhaps a non-stance ias?

kanuks · Aug 28, 2010, 07:38 AM // 07:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by Beomagi

Ok let's consider the buffs.
It's physical damage hitting everything.

Barbs is triggered twice on a hexed foe.
EVSoH is triggered for each damage packet
Whirlwind is probably one of the most powerful attacks, since if you hit N enemies, each is hit N times by 100B giving damage from 100B equal to N^2.
Mark of pain like barbs is triggered twich for that target.

Splinter weapon uses a counter - so having hb doesn't benefit as much - it makes more of an aoe spike, especially with whirlsind or sun and moon slash.

So yes, you do proc more but it depends on what procs you have. If it's splinter only - as many pugs I've seen, you benefit the least, and 100B isn't necessary.

After thinking about it, I think the biggest bonus is that it procs buffs if you're blind. I don't see many with barbs or mop.

The weakpoint is single target and not being buffed. I guess I should give it another try.

Has anyone tried using auspicious parry? It appears capable of fueling adrenaline based attacks pretty quick - final trust, galrath, brawling headbutt. Of course, it's a stance so perhaps a non-stance ias?

So you're going to use 3 skills on a single target while you could just unleash hell on a whole mob with 100b? I've been playing a warrior since 2005 and HB is by far the best damage skill for a warrior. Oh yeah I use BHU on my 100b bar, which increases the damage quite a bit. It's possible to use ebsh of honor too which increases the even more

Beomagi · Aug 29, 2010, 01:44 AM // 01:44

Quote:

Originally Posted by kanuks

So you're going to use 3 skills on a single target while you could just unleash hell on a whole mob with 100b? I've been playing a warrior since 2005 and HB is by far the best damage skill for a warrior. Oh yeah I use BHU on my 100b bar, which increases the damage quite a bit. It's possible to use ebsh of honor too which increases the even more

I stated all buffs earlier.

you're getting armor reducible damage packets from 100b. The "hell" comes from
1 - splinter - which will trigger as many times if you didn't use 100b
2 - MoP - which triggers twice as often as regular swinging
3 - barbs - for single target which will trigger as often as MoP
4 - EVSoH - which triggers for each damage packet and is armor ignoring

buff 1 doesn't matter if it's 100b or not.
buff 2 and 3 are best brought out with 100b, since you're getting 2 damage packets on the foe per swing.
EVSoH is what best synergizes with 100b compared to regular builds because it increases all damage packets from it, increasing the aoe.

Now like I said, I understand all this - but the single target damage is still weak, and with those buffs, do you really think you're missing much from aoe?

As for my last postulation with auspicious parry, I was inquiring to see some ingenuity instead of a tired (meta?) build.

kanuks · Aug 29, 2010, 07:35 PM // 19:35

Quote:

Originally Posted by Beomagi

I stated all buffs earlier.

you're getting armor reducible damage packets from 100b. The "hell" comes from
1 - splinter - which will trigger as many times if you didn't use 100b
2 - MoP - which triggers twice as often as regular swinging
3 - barbs - for single target which will trigger as often as MoP
4 - EVSoH - which triggers for each damage packet and is armor ignoring

buff 1 doesn't matter if it's 100b or not.
buff 2 and 3 are best brought out with 100b, since you're getting 2 damage packets on the foe per swing.
EVSoH is what best synergizes with 100b compared to regular builds because it increases all damage packets from it, increasing the aoe.

Now like I said, I understand all this - but the single target damage is still weak, and with those buffs, do you really think you're missing much from aoe?

As for my last postulation with auspicious parry, I was inquiring to see some ingenuity instead of a tired (meta?) build.

I dont mop, EVSoH and barbs when i H/H and I unleash hell very easily. Please tell me how a DS build can pack more power. With soh + judge's insight the single target damage is comparable to DS. If we take no buffs at all, 100b deals more DPS with only 2 adjacent targets. Against big mobs like charrs or slaver's dwarves 100b is far more effective than DS. DS is horrible in any area that involves blocking or blinding and most late game areas are filled with these. Basically, DS is useless.

Whats the purpose of a DS warrior?

Spam SY? I can do that well with an 100b build (6 seconds SY) and it even surpasses DS at spamming SY in areas with blocking and blinding.

Knock lock a target? Who cares about knock locking a single target when you can explode 5 targets at the same time?

Single target damage? Assassins are much much better at that.

Oh and splinter is better with 100b unless you have whirlwind attack on your DS bar, which is unusual (unless you want to remove the knock lock combo).

Beomagi · Aug 30, 2010, 11:24 AM // 11:24

Quote:

Originally Posted by kanuks

I dont mop, EVSoH and barbs when i H/H and I unleash hell very easily. Please tell me how a DS build can pack more power. With soh + judge's insight the single target damage is comparable to DS. If we take no buffs at all, 100b deals more DPS with only 2 adjacent targets. Against big mobs like charrs or slaver's dwarves 100b is far more effective than DS. DS is horrible in any area that involves blocking or blinding and most late game areas are filled with these. Basically, DS is useless.

Whats the purpose of a DS warrior?

Spam SY? I can do that well with an 100b build (6 seconds SY) and it even surpasses DS at spamming SY in areas with blocking and blinding.

Knock lock a target? Who cares about knock locking a single target when you can explode 5 targets at the same time?

Single target damage? Assassins are much much better at that.

Oh and splinter is better with 100b unless you have whirlwind attack on your DS bar, which is unusual (unless you want to remove the knock lock combo).

So you're using buffs which really don't augment the individual packets from 100b. How much damage are you getting on the bonus slashing damage on HM?

Are you saying you gain adrenaline when you're blocked/blinded with 100b to let you spam adrenaline skills?

Splinter is up after about 4 hits. So with 100b, it's over is 2 swings, with regular attacks, its 4 - either way, it's over before it recharged on your hero hench. So how are you doing mpre damage with it?

Don't get me wrong, I don't like DS for stated reasons (as stated a few posts earlier).

kanuks · Aug 30, 2010, 07:32 PM // 19:32

Quote:

Originally Posted by Beomagi

So you're using buffs which really don't augment the individual packets from 100b. How much damage are you getting on the bonus slashing damage on HM?

Are you saying you gain adrenaline when you're blocked/blinded with 100b to let you spam adrenaline skills?

Splinter is up after about 4 hits. So with 100b, it's over is 2 swings, with regular attacks, its 4 - either way, it's over before it recharged on your hero hench. So how are you doing mpre damage with it?

Don't get me wrong, I don't like DS for stated reasons (as stated a few posts earlier).

Splinter is good for 5 hits and theres a lot of difference to spike them all in one hit rather than divide them into 5 attacks. Chances is you will kill a mob 5times as fast (whirwind attack).

As for spamming SY in blocking/blinding areas, a DS bar uses more adre skills than an 100b build so unless all you want to do is try to spam SY without using DS then yeah they will both spam SY the same way but if you want to make damage then chances are good that you will ruin your adrenaline with a blocked DS. Not to mention that all 100b bars uses sun and moon slash which is unblockable and it helps a lot to build up adre in such areas. Unless you use that skill on a DS build wich is basically useless.

If you want we can test which build is more effective with h/h. Make a dungeon in hm and ill try to beat your time. No cons of course.

But you're saying that you don't like DS and you don't like 100b. Please tell me whats your fav warrior elite, the one you think is the more efficient.

Beomagi · Aug 31, 2010, 10:40 AM // 10:40

So I just tested something.
Splinter does not trigger any more often with 100B. So If you're running splinter as your only buff, the only aoe you're getting is the raw 100b damage.

DS builds are usually designed around building adrenaline quickly - included said sun and moon slash to start swinging. even ww to gain adr.

How much do you get on average with your 100b bonus damage? It's just that without the other mentioned buffs, the bonus is just so small against high armor.

I normally run warrior's endurance.

kanuks · Aug 31, 2010, 04:25 PM // 16:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by Beomagi

So I just tested something.
Splinter does not trigger any more often with 100B. So If you're running splinter as your only buff, the only aoe you're getting is the raw 100b damage.

DS builds are usually designed around building adrenaline quickly - included said sun and moon slash to start swinging. even ww to gain adr.

How much do you get on average with your 100b bonus damage? It's just that without the other mentioned buffs, the bonus is just so small against high armor.

I normally run warrior's endurance.

I don't know what kind of DS build you are referring to but the best ones doesnt use sun and moon slash nor whirlwind attack.

Enraging charge, flail, fgj, asuran scan, DS, steelfang slash, BH, SY is the standard (best) DS build.

It doesn't have wirlwind attack and no s&ms so no it's not going to work as well as an 100b build with splinter weapon.

I personally don't care about single target damage because let's say there is a mob of 6 monsters, I usually get 4 monsters killed when they are adjacent to another foe. I always aim for grouped foe, i don't use c-space often.

What kind of WE build are you using? Used to play a WE axe build, then i switched to a WE scythe build and then i switched to an 100b build because after numerous playtesting in every areas i realised it was much more powerful. Try the slaver's dungeons in hm with these 3 builds you will see which one of them really shine.

Beomagi · Aug 31, 2010, 05:33 PM // 17:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by kanuks

I don't know what kind of DS build you are referring to but the best ones doesnt use sun and moon slash nor whirlwind attack.

Enraging charge, flail, fgj, asuran scan, DS, steelfang slash, BH, SY is the standard (best) DS build.

It doesn't have wirlwind attack and no s&ms so no it's not going to work as well as an 100b build with splinter weapon.

I personally don't care about single target damage because let's say there is a mob of 6 monsters, I usually get 4 monsters killed when they are adjacent to another foe. I always aim for grouped foe, i don't use c-space often.

What kind of WE build are you using? Used to play a WE axe build, then i switched to a WE scythe build and then i switched to an 100b build because after numerous playtesting in every areas i realised it was much more powerful. Try the slaver's dungeons in hm with these 3 builds you will see which one of them really shine.

I have to give it to you, 100b is one of the stronger skills for slaver's Justicar thommis dungeon due to the irritating melee wards.

Now the way I see it, the damage you get is reduced by armor. So how much bonus are you getting on hm?
Last I tried it, I just found it disappointing, because most the aoe came from my hench's splinter, and my own from 100b was sub par - I was happy to see double digits.

Normally I run burst of agression+WE with daggers, axe or the occasional scythe.
What attracted me to this was specifically was the high amount of armor ignoring damage available. For daggers, I don't remember the names off the top of my head, but skills with cast rate hitting for +18, +30, then a double attack (blossom) with +80 total armor ignoring bonus damage. BH + ymlad keep things down most of the time.

I don't think I understand scythe damage yet fully.
I've always been underwhelmed, but using scan, buh, aura of holy might, I started getting some insane figures (100-200!) which don't add up given the percentages.

kanuks · Aug 31, 2010, 07:30 PM // 19:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by Beomagi

I have to give it to you, 100b is one of the stronger skills for slaver's Justicar thommis dungeon due to the irritating melee wards.

Now the way I see it, the damage you get is reduced by armor. So how much bonus are you getting on hm?
Last I tried it, I just found it disappointing, because most the aoe came from my hench's splinter, and my own from 100b was sub par - I was happy to see double digits.

Normally I run burst of agression+WE with daggers, axe or the occasional scythe.
What attracted me to this was specifically was the high amount of armor ignoring damage available. For daggers, I don't remember the names off the top of my head, but skills with cast rate hitting for +18, +30, then a double attack (blossom) with +80 total armor ignoring bonus damage. BH + ymlad keep things down most of the time.

I don't think I understand scythe damage yet fully.
I've always been underwhelmed, but using scan, buh, aura of holy might, I started getting some insane figures (100-200!) which don't add up given the percentages.

Scythe damage is high because AOHM change the damage to holy which ignores armor. 30% from AOHM + 75% from AS quickly pumps that damage through the roof (I did 600+ damage against Undeads a few times in Soo HM with my scythe warrior, without Asuran Scan). Those 100-200 numbers does add up if you add armor penetration from STR + critical hits.

Against the highest armor I agree that the damage bonus from 100b is pretty low at 9 (Sometimes it's 8) at 16 sword mastery. But I'm talking about very high armor level such as Warrior Jotuns in HM and without the use of BUH. What makes 100b shine is the multiplicative effect.

With the w/a build that you are using you deal very good single target damage but death blossom alone doesn't deal that much aoe damage (only 40 damage). With 100b + BUH, every single attacks deals 12 to 26+ aoe damage. When WhirlAttack is used it deals some nice aoe spike (12-26+) * number of adjacent targets. Also, the range of the aoe is more than just adjacent, it's adjacent to the targets that are adjacent to you. Needless to say that with proper bodyblocking, 100b can deal some big number of damage.

Usually my fights go like that :

I run towards a mob using enraging charge, hit FGJ + 100b + BUH and spot some monsters adjacent to each others. The attacks goes like this : reg attack, flail, WA, S&MS, reg attack, WA. Thats a lot of damage in less than 6 seconds, all of that under By Ural's Hammer. Of course I micro Splinter + judges insight on me beforehand.

I'd have to try a W/A build though, it sounds interesting.

Grav · Sep 03, 2010, 10:29 AM // 10:29

Quote:

Originally Posted by iToasterHD

100b
Hundred Blades
Whirlwind Attack
Sun and Moon Slash
Optional
Enraging Charge
Flail
"For Great Justice!"
"Save Yourselves!"

Now with this build, it is not so much EotN PvE skills as the question, is this really that effective? Just those two attacks? Or is that why this build is the "Good" section of PvX, and not the "Great" because it relies heavily on support classes? Should I use those optionals for more attacks, if not, then what?

Personally I tend to take 2 off Swordsmanship and put 8 in Tactics which is a breakpoint for "To The Limit!". I find it handy if both FGJ and EC are still recharging and the things around me still aren't dead, to keep SY/WWA/SMS/Flail going through that in-between period.

However, because it's not a Strength or Swordsmanship skill, I still view it as being very much optional, i.e. I would happily drop it in favour of something else better suited to the specific area if needed, Antidote Signet in areas like the desert with lots of blind for example.

As for the 100B/DS argument, I generally use 100B by default, but I still use DS where I think it's better suited, for single boss missions and areas where energy management can sometimes be an issue (Ring Of Fire for example) etc etc.