Curse

chrisbendsurmind · Nov 23, 2010, 06:41 AM // 06:41

I have just started using my warrior after getting bored of most other professions and I like the build I have put together but I feel it could be improved and being a perfectionist that bothers me. I have come to quite a stump here so help is appreciated. My current build uses:

Warrior's Endurance
Lion's Comfort
Power Attack
Cyclone Axe
Whirlwind Attack
"Save Yourselves!"
"For Great Justice!"
Strength and Honor

(yes it's w/mo lol)

I have seen most PVX builds with no heal but that seems a little strange to me? Is that really a good idea?

I was thinking of putting strength and honor on a hero and Maybe adding conjure lightning for a lot of damage along with mark of pain for a pretty good nuke, but I cannot think of a way to use strength and honor with a hero without taking away from my hero's :/

Thanks in advance!

Uriel_Wolfblood · Nov 23, 2010, 07:37 AM // 07:37

Yes, SaH belongs on a hero. Usually a rit hero running channeling/smiting. Splinter weapon + ancestor's rage are top of the line. Especially when combined with your whirlwind and cyclone axe. Other than that it is a pretty cut and dry WE build.

Gennadios · Nov 23, 2010, 07:38 AM // 07:38

Self heals are entirely unnecessary as a Warr, natural armor will keep you alive long enough to get aggro and pull mobs back to the party, from there your monks take over. Also, a warr isn't the tradition "tank" of other MMOs, they're best run for damage. Every second you're spending casting self heals like Lions Comfort is a second you're not doing your job.

Cyclone axe and whirlwind attack are meh. Warrior's generally don't find themselves surrounded enough to make full use of the skills.

The Strength Of Honor/Warrior's Endurance combo is theoretically sound. The main use of the elite is to power the particularly expensive skills, and since it costs 10e with -1 regen it kind of makes sense. However, give the build, I'd be more inclined to suggest just ditching the two energy based attacks and For Great Justice, get Battle Rage, and slot adrenal attacks and maybe Endure Pain into the empty spaces.

chrisbendsurmind · Nov 23, 2010, 07:49 AM // 07:49

Hmmm.... Two pretty different opinions there....

Questions for each idea:

1.If I use SoH on a rit/mo hero how would I manage that energy? Would it not be a better combo to do say barbs, mark of pain, and SoH with a n/mo?

2. I am going to have to disagree with you along the lines of taking out cyclone axe and whirlwind attack work very well and power attack if for single foes, these skills along with "FGJ" keep save Yourselves up pretty well.

3. Lions comfort is not only a heal it provides adrenaline, I was debating replacing it with enraging charge though Since I have no stance ATM. Think that would be better?

Not trying to contradict what you guys are saying just pointing out what I think are flaws to get this perfect

kazjun · Nov 23, 2010, 08:11 AM // 08:11

I should mention that if you go elemental for conjures, then you won't activate mark of pain or barbs which need physical only.

Chthon · Nov 23, 2010, 08:12 AM // 08:12

1. SoH goes on another party member who can dedicate significant points to smiting.

2. Axe is a weak line for PvE in general. If you're going to use axe in PvE, whirlwind+cyclone(+power attack + WE) is probably the way to go. In order to make it really competitive with sword and hammer, you're going to need support consisting of SoH+Orders+GDW(/Splinter if H+H) at the very least, plus large enough mobs for the multi-hits to matter.

3. Don't need the heal. That's what the backline is for. Remember, this is a team game. Only reason to bring Lions Comfort is for the adrenaline pump effect.

4. Needs IAS. Use Frenzy. Have a decent backline to prevent it from getting you killed.

5. In response to your question about energy on the SoH hero, for this build I'd probably run a N/Mo orders/Smite hero with Cultist's Fervor, Order of Pain, Dark Fury, Blood Bond, Strength of Honor, Foul Feast/Draw Conditions, Smite Hex, Rez of choice. Spec 12+1+3 blood, 10 smiting, 8+1 soul reaping. This build can maintain 4+ copies of SoH without energy problems. Suggested that you bring at least 1 other melee to take advantage of SoH and as many physicals as can be reasonably squeezed into the team.

5a. Another alternative you you don't have enough physicals on the team for Orders to be worthwhile is Rt/Mo SoS=Splinter+SoH hero. 12+1+3 channeling, 12 smiting, 3+1 spawning. SoS, Siphon Spirit (that's how you make the energy work), Splinter Weapon, SoH, MBS and/or Smite Hex, FoMF, maybe ARage (but hero AI does poorly with it), maybe Bloodsong if there's extra space.

chrisbendsurmind · Nov 23, 2010, 08:36 AM // 08:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chthon

1. SoH goes on another party member who can dedicate significant points to smiting.

2. Axe is a weak line for PvE in general. If you're going to use axe in PvE, whirlwind+cyclone(+power attack + WE) is probably the way to go. In order to make it really competitive with sword and hammer, you're going to need support consisting of SoH+Orders+GDW(/Splinter if H+H) at the very least, plus large enough mobs for the multi-hits to matter.

3. Don't need the heal. That's what the backline is for. Remember, this is a team game. Only reason to bring Lions Comfort is for the adrenaline pump effect.

4. Needs IAS. Use Frenzy. Have a decent backline to prevent it from getting you killed.

5. In response to your question about energy on the SoH hero, for this build I'd probably run a N/Mo orders/Smite hero with Cultist's Fervor, Order of Pain, Dark Fury, Blood Bond, Strength of Honor, Foul Feast/Draw Conditions, Smite Hex, Rez of choice. Spec 12+1+3 blood, 10 smiting, 8+1 soul reaping. This build can maintain 4+ copies of SoH without energy problems. Suggested that you bring at least 1 other melee to take advantage of SoH and as many physicals as can be reasonably squeezed into the team.

5a. Another alternative you you don't have enough physicals on the team for Orders to be worthwhile is Rt/Mo SoS=Splinter+SoH hero. 12+1+3 channeling, 12 smiting, 3+1 spawning. SoS, Siphon Spirit (that's how you make the energy work), Splinter Weapon, SoH, MBS and/or Smite Hex, FoMF, maybe ARage (but hero AI does poorly with it), maybe Bloodsong if there's extra space.

Very helpful post, thank you, I will take all this into consideration.

I would like to note that cyclone axe and whirlwind attack work well for me as long as they are hitting 2 foes (because of FGJ) at a time which is pretty easy to acheive

xPc · Nov 23, 2010, 08:42 AM // 08:42

Any self heal is a waste. If you're using Lion's Comfort for adren and you can't live without that boost put in Enraging Charge as it at least increases your time on target rather than decreasing it.

You need an IAS. Flail would probably do, Frenzy is workable depending on your team or Drunken Master is simply amazing if you have alcohol. Pick which one you like best.

Definitely put SoH on a hero. Something like a SoS rit with splinter and a-rage is perfect. Give it Spirit Siphon and the energy will be fine.

You don't really need two AoE attacks. All they're really doing is triggering multiple splinter weapon procs in one action and unless you bring multiple splinters or have a human rit, you'll only need one for this. If you want more AoE go Hammer (Earthshaker) or Sword (100blades). Axe is more for single target damage, in which case you should probably bring Dismember.

Asuran Scan is really great with Warrior's Endurance. You'll have plenty of energy to spam it around and do huge damage with power attack.

xPc.

chrisbendsurmind · Nov 23, 2010, 08:58 AM // 08:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by xPc

You don't really need two AoE attacks. All they're really doing is triggering multiple splinter weapon procs in one action and unless you bring multiple splinters or have a human rit, you'll only need one for this. If you want more AoE go Hammer (Earthshaker) or Sword (100blades). Axe is more for single target damage, in which case you should probably bring

xPc.

Cyclone axe is a energy skill which with FGJ enables me to spam both skills over and over pretty quick while using "save Yourselves" In between. This is all dependent upon having at least 2 adjacent foes but I mean it's PvE how hard it isn't hard to find at least 2 adjacent foes. I have tried 100b after doing FoWsc but it did not have the kind of energy I needed for what I am trying to run.

I would also like to put out there that this is not my only build I made this build because I did not have an axe build and I just bought a chaos axe and I needed an AoE build.

bsoltan · Nov 23, 2010, 09:27 AM // 09:27

You seem pretty set on keeping Whirlwind and Cyclone, so that's fine.

As mentioned I would drop Lion's Comfort and Strength and Honor. This enables you to put all your attribute points into Strength and Axe as you're currently splitting between 4 attributes which means they will all be mediocre.

Instead I would add an IAS as mentioned earlier in the thread, this way you can deal damage quicker and build adrenaline faster (rock candy works too if you want to keep the slot free).
Also consider other PvE skills, Asuran Scan was mentioned (good when focusing on one target), there is also "I Am The Strongest!" to buff your attacks. Brawling Headbut as a knockdown (if you have adrenaline spare) or "You Move Like A Dwarf!".

N/Mo or Rt/Mo heroes both work for the simiting line. You can look at adding Strength and Honor, Smite Hex, Smite Condition and Judges Insight.
If it is a Rit then Ancestor's Rage, Splinter, SoS and Spirit Siphon. The Necro can be whichever hybrid you like, Curses or Blood offer good Melee support. Stuff like Barbs and Cracked Armor are nice. Blood can give you Orders. Experiment with a few different things.

chrisbendsurmind · Nov 23, 2010, 09:52 AM // 09:52

I agree on IAS I can't believe I missed that but everyone is mentioning flail and frenzy, would it not be better to use tiger stance?

Edit: nvm I see why, tiger stance has long recharge

bsoltan · Nov 23, 2010, 10:00 AM // 10:00

Pretty much every IAS has a disadvantage (other than the PvE Skill Drunken Master and consumables)

Flurry - Deal less damage = bad
Flail - Move slower so when one foe dies it isn't quick to get to the next unless you bring a cancel stance.
Frenzy - Take more damage = ok if you can prot yourself.
Tiger's Stance - Not good if you miss (through blind etc.) and as you mentioned you can't keep it up 100%
Burst of Aggression - Lose all Adrenaline when it ends and can't be kept up so you'll lose the ability of some adrenal skills.

chrisbendsurmind · Nov 23, 2010, 10:13 AM // 10:13

Oh wow just noticed how great drunken master is. I will use that! Thanks!

I would like to point out u said using lions comfort and SoH means points spread across 4 attributes, it is actually only 3.... Just throwing that out there.

I have decided to go with

Drunken master replacing lion's comfort
Conjure lightning replacing SoH

And a rit/mo hero

Thanks again! I think with everyones help I have got this build doing the best it could do, but if anyone thinks they know more ways to improve it, such as a 2nd hero etc., feel free

Terek Zelta · Nov 23, 2010, 11:18 AM // 11:18

Drunken master is a great IAS if you can fund it. I had some fun with it yesterday.

Flail isn't anything you should be afraid of, though. Point for point, it's probably the best IAS for warriors in the game, it just needs a decent cancel stance like Rush or Enraging Charge (or even Flurry - no IMS, but you can cancel Flail on demand and can help build adrenaline at the very beginning of an engagement).

I'd like to contradict almost everyone and say axes aren't weak in PVE. It depends on your build. Personally, I don't like running Warrior's Endurance because I prefer to abuse the adrenaline engine with skills like Dark Fury and Mark of Fury on a hero. Cleave and Eviscerate can pump out way more damage than Warrior's Endurance because in the time it takes Power Attack to recharge, I can use either skill twice. Right here is when everyone jumps me and screams bloody murder because Warrior's Endurance fuels Asuran Scan, and Asuran Scan is godly. I find Asuran Scan to be overkill, myself, and I hate its delay. In my opinion, unless you're fighting bosses like NOX, it's unnecessary and even cumbersome because things die too quickly anyway. You don't need Warrior's Endurance to fuel Asuran Scan anyway. A long time ago, I used it on an adrenaline-based axe build and I think it was my only energy skill, and it was fine.

Also, I'm of the opinion that if you're H/Hing, Orders are fine, even if you're the only physical in the group. If you're the only human player, the more in control of the battle you personally are, the higher your chances are of winning, and Orders will give you supreme control. That said, if you're using Warrior's Endurance, it's kind of a waste of a hero (again, my opinion). When I use Orders, it's to make me an adrenaline god - Cleave charges itself, Eviscerate charges in 3 hits and charges Executioner's Strike/Body Blow, while Whirlwind Attack and Cyclone Axe keep all my skills lit up. I can also very fluidly chain Dragon Slash -> SY -> Brawling Headbutt -> Steelfang Slash -> repeat.

There's a lot you can do when you have an endless supply adrenaline, and for me it results in more overall damage and defense than if I were to dedicate that hero to something else, because fueling SY becomes effortless and you're capable of doing 90-100+ DPS on your own. Thanks to SY, you can usually run one less healer too (hero or henchman), which frees up one of your party slots anyway. Ahem. Sorry.

My personal advice is to ditch Warrior's Endurance and learn to abuse adrenaline, because it'll spoil you rotten. You'll never want to use Power Attack again because of its recharge, heheh.

I've been messing around a lot with heroes, and one thing I learned is that as a frontliner (typically, the only one in the group, and using SY to boot), I often need a few more heals in HM than your average mid or backliner. I started using a variation of Warrior-Racway that removes the command hero and throws in an ER Infuser (since the ER/Orders hero has no heals outside of Blood Bond) and it's impressive, if a little unorthodox. Warriors can afford to devote their heroes to support because they do bucketloads of damage on their own.

As for your WE build, it's great, but if you want my honest opinion, you could do a lot better with a different elite. Warrior's Endurance isn't bad, there are just better/more advanced things that you could be doing with your axe. Warrior's Endurance shines more with a scythe.

Based on the way you're talking and the skills you have, I'm also assuming you've been playing for a while now, so that's why I'm saying all this.

If you're interested, let me know. Peace.

bsoltan · Nov 23, 2010, 11:23 AM // 11:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by chrisbendsurmind

Oh wow just noticed how great drunken master is. I will use that! Thanks!

I would like to point out u said using lions comfort and SoH means points spread across 4 attributes, it is actually only 3.... Just throwing that out there.

I have decided to go with

Drunken master replacing lion's comfort
Conjure lightning replacing SoH

And a rit/mo hero

Thanks again! I think with everyones help I have got this build doing the best it could do, but if anyone thinks they know more ways to improve it, such as a 2nd hero etc., feel free

Oh yes, my mistake Lions Comfort had an update. Shows how long it has been since I took it on my Warrior.

As a reminder to earlier posts, by all means try Conjure Lightning out but keep in mind you may get better DPS with a Vampiric weapon and brining some skills effected by Physical Damage like Barbs and Orders etc.

chrisbendsurmind · Nov 23, 2010, 12:52 PM // 12:52

Gosh Every time I think I have this figured out something else pops up.

Idk if it's against rules to sorta totally change topic build like this but I have decided to try the one everyone helped me come up with earlier and also this:

Considering Order, barbs, Mark of pain etc. I may totally change the build and use:

Enraging charge
Drunken master
Hundred blades
Whirlwind attack
Sun and moon slash
"Save Yourselves"
Signet of strength (Because I couldn't think of anything else)
And either a res or a skill for finishing off attackers or interrupt.

1 n/rt hero with mark of pain, barbs, splinter weapon, order blood bond
And a rt/mo hero with SoH and splinter weapon
(Splinter weapon on both for easy upkeep)
thinking that would be more dps

I can't thank everyone enough for the help with this, I don't know what you guys think of it but I love the direction this is going

Edit: I would also use this with a vampiric sword.

Corpus Vitalis · Nov 23, 2010, 01:16 PM // 13:16

On the N/Rt, you might also look into adding Weaken Armor and Enfeebling Blood to it's bar. Weaken Armor gives the cracked armor condition to all adjacent foes increasing your dps a bit and enfeebling blood causes weakness on adjacent foes, causing your heroes to have to heal less and lose less energy etc.

chrisbendsurmind · Nov 23, 2010, 01:33 PM // 13:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by Corpus Vitalis

On the N/Rt, you might also look into adding Weaken Armor and Enfeebling Blood to it's bar. Weaken Armor gives the cracked armor condition to all adjacent foes increasing your dps a bit and enfeebling blood causes weakness on adjacent foes, causing your heroes to have to heal less and lose less energy etc.

I will take that into consideration when I make all the builds but I may only add one or the other because both may be a bit of overkill and there could be a better use for a skill slot. I am thinking just weaken armor because theycan't hurt you I'd they are dead

For my 3rd and final hero and hopefully last step to this will probably be:

Mo/P with RoJ, assorted heals that use smite attribute such as smite condition, hex, reversal of damage and fall back and 1 other running skill because I like constant speed buffs xD

How does that sound?

Terek Zelta · Nov 23, 2010, 04:03 PM // 16:03

A few things:

Don't bring two Splinter Weapons. A lot of the time, heroes will actually cast them over one another and overwrite each others' spells.

Don't put Orders and Barbs/Mark of Pain on the same hero. It can be done, but the hero has trouble juggling all of those spells and this is partially the reason why people say heroes are bad with curses. If you want a Barbs/Mark of Pain, you really have to devote that hero to it so that it uses them consistently and intelligently.

I don't recommend running RoJ on a hero if you run Hundred Blades, as it'll cause everything to scatter, and your job as a 100b warrior is to make everything surround you so you can make it all explode.

This is what I run now with 100b:

I'm sure there are better 100b setups out there. I actually haven't fully tested this in HM either. I used to run a paragon in place of Livia, but I decided I wanted Barbs/MoP back.

Individually, the heroes use their skills exceptionally well. Vekk has managed to outperform nearly every human monk I've ever played with and can singlehandedly keep the group alive in HM.

A few things: I probably don't need Signet of Lost Souls or Order of Pain, but I bring them just in case, because you don't want to confuse the little hero AI with too many weird skills to use. Their skillset affects the order in which they cast their spells.

As for SoH, I have plenty of energy with a vampiric weapon. Been running it that way for a year. You also never run out of energy with one of these.

Icy The Mage · Nov 23, 2010, 05:33 PM // 17:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by Terek Zelta

This is what I run now with 100b:

It looks like hexes and conditions would become a big problem when running this build. I mean, I`m not too sure how capable henchies are at removing ALL hexes and conditions from you for the 5s that Foul Feast is recharging x_x