Curse

AuraofMana · Dec 11, 2006, 11:02 PM // 23:02

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4 whole minions on a full time minion master, eh? Wow.

No self-heal on the MM? Now wait...your arguing that the SS should take BR to make the monks job easier, and you are running a MM without a self-heal?????

Yeah for people who can't read sarcasm.

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It's ok to be the "Energy Bitch" if that's what you're signing up for at the start. But, clearly that's not what most necro's want to be doing. So if it comes down to YOU managing your energy, or ME managing your energy, I vote that you do it.

Again I am assuming you get shit teammates. For the last time, I am saying it's better to bring BR in case you get crappy allies.

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No one uses BiP, except for The Deep or on Guild teams with very specific high-energy builds.

Never said everyone now did I?

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Do you have any idea how much energy management is available between the Ele and Mes lines? An E/Me has ZERO excuse for running out of energy.

Oh hell yes I do, but I can't guarantee other people do?

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The SS doesn't need to bring BR

And no one needs Rez to be successful in GW, but people still bring it because shit happens.

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Because this is a specific team build. Not a random PUG where you get what you get. Apples vs. Oranges.

Then we can't really compare anything since everything is different in its own way. I am comparing Farming to Farming being that both team uses a SS. The whole point of team farming is to make it:
1. Best would be to solo, but if not, make it the least amount of people as possible.
2. As fast as possible - which means the few precious seconds (more like 20 seconds) you can save because the Bonder lost his enchants or Ele got rezed and needs to replenish his energy pool can net you more profit.

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Since you seem to be missing the point, how about the ele bringing blinding flash?

Now YOU are missing the point. I was clearly stating that just because you CAN bring something doesn't mean you do it. SS brings BR because he does not need all 8 skills to run to be efficient.

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On the better 5-man teams I've seen he doesn't. And if he did it sure wouldn't be for the ele as the better 5-man team builds I've seen don't have an ele in them. Tank, MM, SS, prot monk, healer ftw...

Don't know why he needs an Ele either. He said something in paradox about he, as an SS, being the ONLY damage dealer and having a nuker on the team kills monsters faster.

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You do understand there is a major difference between a 5-man team and a 2-man, right? And you do understand that good 55 monks doing 2-man UW farming don't need the SS to bring BR, right? I mean the UW can (or could) be farmed using a 2-man famine ranger and 55 monk. The ranger sure doesn't bring BR.

I was comparing it to another build where both has a SS in it.
Never said OMG YOU HAVE TO DO IT OR YOUR TEAM WILL Ph41L BIG TIME LOLZ!!!11!! You can say that about a lot of skills - most skills aren't required.
As for UW - you need to understand what we are talking about - I never said 55/SS is the only duo for UW. And Famine Ranger + 55 was never any FASTER than 55/SS, not having BR to start the Monk off and getting him out of tough situation was one of them. Those few seconds might be insignificant, but in the long run it adds up.

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If it can be successfully done with only 2 or 3 people then one could ask why with 5 people and the team having 16-24 more skill slots than the 2 or 3 man does one player need one of the others to do energy management for him?

Never said it was REQUIRED. Shit happens all the time - you can't guarantee everyone you play with even knows how to spell Guild Wars.

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Apparently in your view cooperation is a one way street. Either necros are so uber they should be able to do their job as well as support other characters who can't or choose not to manage their own energy. Or maybe your view is that at least 25% of a necro's job actually is to support other characters with their energy management. Some of us disagree. In any event don't hold your breath waiting for us to bring BR for you. Now if you want to open up you own skill bar and let me pick one of your slots in exchange for bringing BR, then maybe we'll talk. But probably not.

Sarcasm... it's not hard to read you know.
Necro is awesome offensively, defensively, and supportively. You don't have to be support to be amazing, but you can.

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Now if you want to open up you own skill bar and let me pick one of your slots in exchange for bringing BR, then maybe we'll talk.

I am assuming I am the Nec when I wrote those replies - after all this is the Nec subforum. I never needed BR unless something crappy goes on - like for instance, I just got rebirthed as an Ele and I want my energy to go back faster so we can get back on whatever we were doing.

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True, but cooperation is 2 way like he says.

If one character has to make sacrefices for another's inadequacies then the inadequet one isnt cooperating.

Check your spellings before you hit the submit reply button.
The cooperation you get out of this is - GASP - he's healing/dealing damage for you.
If you want to start counting in "if I do this he will have to do the same so I don't lose out" - count how many PUGs you meet that doesn't believe in:
1. Rez
2. Energy Management
3. Self-heal
4. Staying with the party
5. Bring skills that work with each other
6. He/she is not the omnipotent
7. What the goal of this trip is
8. What is his role in battle
9. What everyone else is supposed to do
10. Leaving in the middle of a quest/mish/farming/pvp screws everyone else up

Phoenix Sebolta · Dec 12, 2006, 06:30 PM // 18:30

Ok chill dude.

Although it might not seem like it, we do agree on several points. I do bring BR if they ask me to, grudgingly because it means theyre not so good at what theyre doing.

My main point wasnt really the necro "shouldnt" bring BR, my point was he "shouldnt HAVE to" because of some noobs. I never cast it on an ele, LEAST OF ALL in combat. they can **** right off! if a bonder wants it ill give it to him because i bond, and if you make a mistake with mantra or blessed sig you can lose bonds.

A trick i like doing is watching the healing monk's build and if hes spamming heal other, healing breeze and heal party...i get depressed.

jesh · Dec 12, 2006, 07:50 PM // 19:50

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Originally Posted by Titan Chrae

Why does everyone talk like SS and MoP are mutually exclusive? Last time I checked they were in the same line and only one was elite.

I bring them both on my curse necro and they both go well with Enfeebling Blood. Everything else is situation dependent.

Using Arcane Echo and Spiteful Spirit will take a big chunch out of your energy, usually not enough to do much else for a while. 15+10+10+10 = 45 energy.
You could take MoP and just cast SS less, but like someone else mentioned, the standard 5 man team doesn't have many physical characters, which is why I think the whole concept should be thrown away. MS has never been anything but utter crap. There aren't any bases to cap in the UW/Fissure, what you need is damage, which MS does not deliver. SS is also sub par, it will only kill things if the rest of your team is bad at it - which if you're wasting a slot with a triple MS ele - you will be.

aubee · Dec 12, 2006, 08:04 PM // 20:04

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Originally Posted by jesh

Using Arcane Echo and Spiteful Spirit will take a big chunch out of your energy, usually not enough to do much else for a while. 15+10+10+10 = 45 energy.
You could take MoP and just cast SS less, but like someone else mentioned, the standard 5 man team doesn't have many physical characters, which is why I think the whole concept should be thrown away. MS has never been anything but utter crap. There aren't any bases to cap in the UW/Fissure, what you need is damage, which MS does not deliver. SS is also sub par, it will only kill things if the rest of your team is bad at it - which if you're wasting a slot with a triple MS ele - you will be.

So what's your take on the 5-man FoW build? No ele? What does the necro bring instead of SS? Or is there even a necro in your ideal build? Or do you bring two necros, both with BR?

Phoenix Sebolta · Dec 13, 2006, 04:00 AM // 04:00

NO BR in a good team!!! A minion master would be good. Otherwise an ele is good for knockdown.

BUT heres an important point no one has mentioned! mark of pain makes them scatter a lot more than SS does. I learnt this 55/SSing FoW. Its a bitch to get them to group. Scrap Mark of Pain.

AuraofMana · Dec 13, 2006, 04:46 AM // 04:46

Bringing BR for the MM would be nice, but then again monsters don't drop fast enough for you to have to summon a whole lot... even though your minions get owned fast.
But then again if monsters drop fast you get a lot of energy.. but then again since your minions are dropping fast you are getting a lot of energy - with nothing to do.
I am confusing myself -.-
I want someone to bring BiP so I can be happy looking at my 10 pip of energy regen and then stand there while my team gets slaughtered going "ooohhhh ahhhhh" - and of course, spam Mending for the heck of it because I can =P

Dr Strangelove · Dec 13, 2006, 08:56 AM // 08:56

Blood rit is nice if your necro has the room... and many necro builds do. It's not so hot in battle, simply because it takes time to run over to the monk, time to cast it, and time for them to really feel the increases regen. It really shines when you're outside of combat getting ready to go again.

Any ele that needs blood rit is horrible. The slow +10-12 energy from blood rit hardly makes a difference when you have 70-80 energy anyway. In the few areas where energy is actually a problem, e.g. City of Tor'qua, there's a bipper around anyway that the ele can whine at for a hand.

MoP and SS now cause the same scatter, except when MoP hits is under your control.

jesh · Dec 14, 2006, 06:50 PM // 18:50

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Originally Posted by aubee

So what's your take on the 5-man FoW build? No ele? What does the necro bring instead of SS? Or is there even a necro in your ideal build? Or do you bring two necros, both with BR?

I haven't played in FoW since prophecies came out, but I might give it a go with some close friends sometime soon. XD
I'll let you now then.

As far as the grouping goes for MoP.. well, like Dr. Strangelove said, you can control the usage of it. Put it on a called target and manipulate the mobs to stand around it, then snare with Harrier's Grasp/Deep Freeze or something and nail the mob down with Twin Moon Sweep, Barrage, etc.

Of course it's harder to do when all you have left is casters spread out all over.. but the same goes for SS.

Carinae · Dec 14, 2006, 08:59 PM // 20:59

MoP works great on the MM. Run ahead of your Fiends, just enough to finish casting MoP right as they catch up to you. The Fiends will attack the hexed target, and with a little practice at placement, you'll wipe the whole mob before they can scatter.

Pick Me · Dec 15, 2006, 02:41 PM // 14:41

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Originally Posted by jesh

I haven't played in FoW since prophecies came out, but I might give it a go with some close friends sometime soon. XD
I'll let you now then.

As far as the grouping goes for MoP.. well, like Dr. Strangelove said, you can control the usage of it. Put it on a called target and manipulate the mobs to stand around it, then snare with Harrier's Grasp/Deep Freeze or something and nail the mob down with Twin Moon Sweep, Barrage, etc.

Of course it's harder to do when all you have left is casters spread out all over.. but the same goes for SS.

Lol! So you haven't played in FoW since prophecies came out, eh? Interesting, and may I ask how did you get to FoW before Prophecies?

Phoenix Sebolta · Dec 17, 2006, 03:09 PM // 15:09

Coming back to the point about whether to bring BR or res sig. If a monk runs out of energy, or an elementalist for that matter, its not the end of the world, you can start to run back. If you DIE there is no running back and it is the end of the world lol. Being able to res a monk in combat with res sig is much more useful than being able to stop him from running out of energy and in doing so, making him less of a monk (in most cases) as he gets used to the 'crutch' which is Blood Ritual.

hotman · Dec 21, 2006, 05:47 AM // 05:47

ok im gonna say this now BR is needed SOMETIMES if u know the ppl you are gonna farm w/ then judge based on their skill lvl, but if it is a PUG farm team, well u need a good guild, but nvr that, just bring BR cause shit does happen, and we do mess up sometimes, but Phoenix is right we shouldnt HAVE to bring it, if u really need energy mangement look at ur 2 classes they MUST have e-mangement but w/e. BR should not be just a given thing, they should request it, then u should kick that person or leave.

Cebe · Dec 21, 2006, 08:55 AM // 08:55

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Originally Posted by Phoenix Sebolta

Being able to res a monk in combat with res sig is much more useful

You aren't the person who 'plays' as Sister Tai are you when someone selects her as their hench monk?

Sorry - I was being Cheeky...just seems to me that Sister Tai would ALWAYS rather Res you mid-fight than just heal you to begin with. The number of times I've been the only one taking hits and Tai has stood there NOT healing me...so I die...are astounding.

Sophitia Leafblade · Dec 21, 2006, 12:25 PM // 12:25

Lol that generally quite common with all the monk henchies *thinks back to Being mobbed by 6 enemys having to try to keep self alive desperatly and watching as not a single healing spell gets cast on me, then dieing and watching as the Monks begin to res instantly while all the enemys are still standing right next to my corpse, so i get mobbed again, repeat until ur only party member with -60dp*