Curse

Terra Xin · Dec 31, 2006, 07:00 AM // 07:00

Quote:

Originally Posted by Redfeather1975

Maybe it's because many ritualist players try to specialize in only 1 area, rather than playing the regulator role I believe was 1 of the main roles Anet originally intended.

Good statement. A regulator would be the best way to describe the Ritualist. It's their unmatched ability to work with more than one profession, that is overlooked by many, simply because of the reasoning: That if a party member can master a single role, what's the point of having a profession who can't master in any role? Answer: The ritualist is the master of Coordination between other professions. Its simple to see why they are so, half of their skills are more usefull towards other classes, and that is where they should get their rcognition.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Life Infusion

Channeling vs. Air magic
20% armor penetration (100% of the time) begs to differ.

EDIT: also, Blind and weakness cannot be applied by Rits without blowing up spirits.

Spirits rock but Spiritual Pain laid down the hurt. Weapon spells rock but you cannot stack them. Wards stack.

I've already had this argument. Channeling Magic has a Higher DPS than Air Magic - even with Air Magic's 25% Armour Penetration. Air Magic is accompanied by blind and weakness (and fyi to the EDIT. there's only one Ritualist skill that "blows" up spirits)

Spiritual Pain is nothing compared to Meteor Shower. Both do the same things, but one of them completely drains your energy. Can you guess which one? I've said this before, but if a Mesmer has a skill that costs 10 Energy and is spammable, do NOT spam it all at once and use up all of your energy!!

Wards stack, but they don't move. It would be better if you compared wards to spirits... except having a spirit is both useful and a burden. Wards are just "cast" as someone said. You can't really do anything with a ward, nor can you influence it to your advantage while its in effect - there's your comparative difference.

Batou of Nine · Dec 31, 2006, 10:36 AM // 10:36

I love my ritualist.

^^
I just wanted to say that... LOL!
Cheers.

unmatchedfury · Dec 31, 2006, 02:24 PM // 14:24

Quote:

Originally Posted by Redfeather1975

I mean no insult by this, but aren't there many more facets to the game than highest damage, highest healing, highest armour, fastest condition spreading. This is a profession that can create a wide variety of builds to adapt to the ebb and flow of PVP battles and the variety of battles in a PVE zone.
A ritualist is very capable of creating a build that can quickly switch to decent sustained healing, dps as the flow of battle requires. And with good anticipation can do an above average job of spike healing, dps with experience.
Ritualists can't be the best in any one thing, but a well played ritualist is easily very good at stabilizing group dps, healing when it is needed. I still don't understand why a PVE PUG would want 2 monks instead of a monk and ritualist, when they know full well that the 2nd monk is going to be a bump on the log 90% of the time.

Maybe it's because many ritualist players try to specialize in only 1 area, rather than playing the regulator role I believe was 1 of the main roles Anet originally intended.

To everyone out there who hasn't tried, it is a good idea to make a resto/channeling rit sometime. There are many skills that allow the ritualist to make a build that can focus on 1 or the other or both in a heartbeat while being very energy efficient overall. It will help to fill whatever role the group needs help with most during the course of battle. It's almost like a dance. Sadly a dance, that if done well, the group will not pause to give notice.

theres only so much versitilty that can have in game though. You've got to have more than one rit if your gonna be "adaptive"

Epinephrine · Dec 31, 2006, 03:01 PM // 15:01

Quote:

Originally Posted by Terra Xin

Spiritual Pain is nothing compared to Meteor Shower. Both do the same things, but one of them completely drains your energy. Can you guess which one? I've said this before, but if a Mesmer has a skill that costs 10 Energy and is spammable, do NOT spam it all at once and use up all of your energy!!

Disagree - the fact that in GvG you'll often see builds with as many as 3 copies of Spiritual Pain means that for 20 energy per mesmer they can put nearly 500 AoE damage (armour ignoring) in less than 2 seconds into an area. You don't need to target a spirit to get the instant recharge, just have one get damaged.

Even playing in RA/TA, if you hit a spirit using team when runninng a Spiritual Pain using mesmer you can crank out enough damage to make it worthwhile - I'll burn 30 energy happily, knowing that I've easily gotten my money's worth - 300+ damage on the ritualist (in <4 seconds) and 240 ish on the spirts and 1-3 teammates. Honestly, if I deal 1000 damage for 30 energy in 4 seconds, it's a good bargain, and the other team generally can't recover fast enough from that initial flurry of damage.

SPiritual Pain is too powerful as a spiking spell, even without the intstant recharge, but with it it is just nasty. I don't think I've lost to a team with spirits while running a dom memser latley.

Plushie Penguin · Dec 31, 2006, 05:13 PM // 17:13

I play my ritualist the most out of any character, but that's the problem, once I get her through the chapter, there isn't much replay value[for any of my characters really].... She has up to thunderhead keep, finished factions and she's up to the nightfallen garden mission[I forget the name]

maybe it's because most of us have already burned through most of the chapters....

LifeInfusion · Dec 31, 2006, 07:30 PM // 19:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by Redfeather1975

I mean no insult by this, but aren't there many more facets to the game than highest damage, highest healing, highest armour, fastest condition spreading. This is a profession that can create a wide variety of builds to adapt to the ebb and flow of PVP battles and the variety of battles in a PVE zone.
A ritualist is very capable of creating a build that can quickly switch to decent sustained healing, dps as the flow of battle requires. And with good anticipation can do an above average job of spike healing, dps with experience.
Ritualists can't be the best in any one thing, but a well played ritualist is easily very good at stabilizing group dps, healing when it is needed. I still don't understand why a PVE PUG would want 2 monks instead of a monk and ritualist, when they know full well that the 2nd monk is going to be a bump on the log 90% of the time.

Maybe it's because many ritualist players try to specialize in only 1 area, rather than playing the regulator role I believe was 1 of the main roles Anet originally intended.

To everyone out there who hasn't tried, it is a good idea to make a resto/channeling rit sometime. There are many skills that allow the ritualist to make a build that can focus on 1 or the other or both in a heartbeat while being very energy efficient overall. It will help to fill whatever role the group needs help with most during the course of battle. It's almost like a dance. Sadly a dance, that if done well, the group will not pause to give notice.

You ask if there many more facets to the game than highest damage, highest healing, highest armour, fastest condition spreading...that's a cynical comment. You know the obvious answer would be there is much more: damage mitigation, movement, snaring, evasion/blocking, enchantment removal, shutdown, interrupts, among other things. There's a reason why you choose a class as your primary, it is the predominant usage of the character. For a Ritualist it is Spawning Power, the ability to pump Restoration/Channeling/Communing to 16. (Don't say you made a Ritualist because the armor looks nice or the armor level is good because it is only 60 armor.) Let's compare this primary attribute to say, Divine Favor or Expertise. If you want to run a protection prayers build, you're likely to have high Divine Favor. Whatever skills you use, Expertise still has an effect so long as they are Ranger skills. That is not so with the Ritualist. Why? It is more or less a given that the only reason to pump Spawning Power up is for skills like Attuned was Songkai, etc when not using spirits. Spirits are the core of the Ritualist's existence.

That said, I am a firm believer in flexibility as much as you are. However, mobility when using spirits is minimal (you basically need draw spirit or recharge time reducers like Rit Lord or Soul Twisting) and interrupts will screw you over terribly. You say Ritualists can run "a build that can quickly switch to decent sustained healing, dps as the flow of battle requires" but then you neglect support for this. One can claim a cliche E/Mo with Ether Prodigy can do the same: damage, healing, *blinding* support, snares, and whatnot.

If you were to split up into multiple roles on one Rit build, as you say, that would decrease your potency. When running spirits, if they die in 2 hits they aren't very useful, are they? When running Restoration Magic, the heals aren't very efficient if they are low Restoration because just any old Orison of Healing with Divine Favor outheals it. (Mend Body and Soul gets a shout out after it got buffed. At 16 Restoration it heals 121 and has 3/4 cast and 3 recharge. Soothing Memories is 106 but has 5 second recharge time. Thus only when at high Restoration do they hold a candle to 9 Divine and 12+ Healing prayers. Orison of Healing which is by far not an efficient heal, is 89 at 12 Healing Prayers and 9 Divine Favor. Compare this to a typical BL Monk with 9 Healing Prayers, or 96 every 5 seconds not including Divine Favor.) That is why people run only one or two attributes high on Ritualists. The spawning Power is useless without spirits, unless you use Spawning Power skills. In that same sense, "a resto/channeling rit" would not be favorable, you would have to take points out of restoration just to do okay damage with channeling. Not investing in Spawning means no access to the Attuned was Songkai that "Professor Gai" loves.

On a somewhat offtopic note, this is very similar to the primary vs. secondary issue of the Critical barrage ranger. It sacrifices the damage of the bow for more critical chance. Since a weapon critical chance raises faster than the points in Critical strikes, the secondary effects of the critical barrager are really what make it (critical eye). The difference here is, the ritualist heals are not as effective in all respects, but they are also conditional (need item spells/spirits/etc. for full potency). The one exception is the usage of Attuned was Songkai with Soothing Memories. There is greater efficiency here, but the heals are still less than a well used Gift of Health or other potent heal. Note, a healer henchman with 12 Divine and 12 Healing Prayers will heal for 98 with Orison of Healing while a 12 Restoration Ritualist heals 96 with Mend Body and Soul. The disparity therefore is when it is a human player. A human player will tend not to use Orison and use an elite like Word of Healing, Blessed Light with Gift of Health, Glimmer of Light, etc which have greater efficiency.

We had a discussion on guild chat about Ritualists the other day. The concensus was that the Ritualist is good for spirits, not as a replacement monk. A monk has the upper hand in the power of heals, flexibility due to not having to rely on spirits and/or item spells. Air Elementalists can pack other things as utility, whereas Channeling is pigeon holed into conditional damage that is not as high. Communing basically is the king here, it has no substitute. Why else would the primary attribute be so concentrated on spirits?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Terra Xin

Good statement. A regulator would be the best way to describe the Ritualist. It's their unmatched ability to work with more than one profession, that is overlooked by many, simply because of the reasoning: That if a party member can master a single role, what's the point of having a profession who can't master in any role? Answer: The ritualist is the master of Coordination between other professions. Its simple to see why they are so, half of their skills are more usefull towards other classes, and that is where they should get their rcognition.

I've already had this argument. Channeling Magic has a Higher DPS than Air Magic - even with Air Magic's 25% Armour Penetration. Air Magic is accompanied by blind and weakness (and fyi to the EDIT. there's only one Ritualist skill that "blows" up spirits)

Spiritual Pain is nothing compared to Meteor Shower. Both do the same things, but one of them completely drains your energy. Can you guess which one? I've said this before, but if a Mesmer has a skill that costs 10 Energy and is spammable, do NOT spam it all at once and use up all of your energy!!

Wards stack, but they don't move. It would be better if you compared wards to spirits... except having a spirit is both useful and a burden. Wards are just "cast" as someone said. You can't really do anything with a ward, nor can you influence it to your advantage while its in effect - there's your comparative difference.

There is no point in getting a car that can do anything else another one can, for the same price. That's what you're missing here. A ritualist can do a variety things, but it cannot do them as well unless it specializes, so therefore it is a waste of a party slot unless the ritualist specializes and tells his or her team beforehand.

You say "the ritualist is the master of Coordination between other professions" but there is no consequential evidence to back this up. Meanwhile "Channeling Magic has a Higher DPS than Air Magic - even with Air Magic's 25% Armour Penetration" is another assumption you make without any real numbers.
A 16 Channeling Spirit Burn : 110
A 16 Channeling Spirit Rift: 142, assuming foes stand in it for 3 seconds
A 16 Channeling Ancestor's Rage: 106 assuming foes are beating on an ally
A 16 Channeling Spirit Boon Strike/Lamentation (armor ignoring): 106
A 16 Channeling Essence Strike/Caretaker's Charge/Renewing Surge: 63
A 16 Channeling Cruel was Daoshen: 122

Assuming 60 armor, 25% armor penetration is -15 armor. That's effectively 129% of the listed damage. Anything in air magic gets ~3/10 of the damage. A person spamming the mediocre Lightning Javelin for 52 damage at 16 air magic would do 67 to 60 armor targets. But wait, it gets better at higher armor levels. Against 80 armor targets it does 100% listed, against 100 armor targets it is effectively 75 armor. By neglecting armor penetration, you overlook the very idea of the air magic line.

A 16 Air Shock Arrow does 48 and has 1sec recharge
A 16 Air Blinding Surge does 53, has 4 second recharge and blind
A 16 Air Enervating Charge does 53, weakens
A 16 Air Lightning Strike does 53
A 16 Air Lightning orb/Lightning hammer/Invoke Lightning does 106
A 16 Air Chain Lightning/Lightning Bolt does 90

If we're talking PvE, that's like comparing Flare to Shock Arrow: One has higher damage to compensate for lack of Armor penetration. But 57 compared to 48 doesn't make up for 25% armor penetration. Sorry.

Meteor Shower has a 60 second recharge, a 5 second cast time...how does this compare to spiritual pain in any way?
Wards can have a 100% upkeep without use of an elite like Soul Twisting or Ritual Lord. They cannot be removed by someone beating on them either. Not to mention the wards don't take 3-5 seconds to cast. Don't get me wrong, damage spirits are nice for pressure and utility (Shadowsong, anyone?), provided they don't get killed in like 2 hits by the opposition...which is why we have Spawning Power.

P.S. when I said blows up spirits I meant the Rupture Soul skill that blinds. Blind was Mingson; Weapon of Shadow are more conditional than Elementalist blinds.

Swame Rain · Dec 31, 2006, 07:49 PM // 19:49

Simply put..Rits aren't dead and I'm not gonna post a 4 page document on why..just go play one through NF and you will find they are still very potent helpers of a battle..spirits seem to be the way to go...or just go as a spirit/channeling damage dealer...works sweet.

unmatchedfury · Dec 31, 2006, 09:03 PM // 21:03

Quote:

Originally Posted by Terra Xin

Wards stack, but they don't move. It would be better if you compared wards to spirits... except having a spirit is both useful and a burden. Wards are just "cast" as someone said. You can't really do anything with a ward, nor can you influence it to your advantage while its in effect - there's your comparative difference.

YOu can't compare wards to spirits. Eles don't have to have wards to function. Ritulists do. As for influencing a Spirit to your advatage.. you have to do this to make them as effective as a ward.

The point being ritulists just aren't that great right now. AS for Ele dps being better than a rits.. Its true,for air magic, over a minute. Fire magic however has burning, adding another +14 dps. Against warriors or armored targets rits do about 40 dps (if left alone and un harassed, which isn't very likely but for theory crafting reasons we'll ignore this..) against soft casters they(rits) excel mainly because the caster can't really kite OR go behind walls so its only defense is shelter or prot spirit. but against armored targets rits can't doo a whole lot. BUt guess what? eles are good agaist soft targets too, in fact their just as good as rits. You use air magic as an example. THe truth is fire magic is the real dmg dealer because 14 of its 50 somethign dps verses targets is garanteed, its can't be outarmored (like a rits attack can) its just there and another annoyance. This is why rits aren't as good as eles. They have to stay in the same place, can't chase down targets, and basicly act as defense.

Who cares if rits can pick off soft targets, so can every other class. rits can outdmg an lighting orb lighting hammer ele after a minute OH NOES the problem is that all rits can do is pure dps. The ele can do a bit more than that and its mobile, WHile the fire ele can equal the dps of the rit while hitting multiple targets. Rits just can't compare.. sorry.

P.S. mostly I play the devils advocate so try and get the rit buffed this next patch. I'm really tired of not being able to use my 100% unlocked rit skills and gear in GvG. SImply because my guild goes "well their not an build I'VE seen." Damn uninventive guys. following the all holy "build" sure hasn't helped them win..

Epinephrine · Dec 31, 2006, 09:30 PM // 21:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by unmatchedfury

YOu can't compare wards to spirits. Eles don't have to have wards to function. Ritulists do.

Ritualists don't need spirits, anymore than a ranger needs a bow. Many good rit builds don't use a spirit.

Agreed that there are aspects of ritualists that are weak though. There are also strong bits.

As for saying that Air has utility, but channeling doesn't, not fair.
Air has: Blind, Weakness, Knockdown and speed buffs
Channeling has: energy management (self), interruption (both vs casters and non casters), adrenaline and energy fueling (anyone), a self-healing energy management attack, a life steal, and a knockdown.

I think that knockdowns are very powerful however, as is blind; frankly, that interruption stuff is powerful, but isn't as maintainable - it needs buffing. I think Wailing Weapon could use a buff (interrupting attackers) - it's a defensive option and requires you to be attacking, and to be hitting. Warmonger's is about right though. The energy management is spirit dependent really, which is too bad, and Weapon of Fury could be useful, but can only really be used on 2 players, and using an elite slot to double adrenaline for two payers just doesn't seem handy with Dark Fury and other skills in the game.

Redfeather1975 · Jan 01, 2007, 01:50 AM // 01:50

LifeInfusion, try this build. It's not the highest damage dealer or best healer, but it is very good at both bumping up the group's healing or damage and can be adjusted to be more offensive or defensive at any point in a battle.
It's fun to play although I'm spending a lot of time other builds right now.
Hopefully you grow to love the ritualist.

Restoration 12+2+1
Channeling 11+2
Spawning 6+1

[skill]Ancestors' Rage[/skill][skill]Splinter Weapon[/skill][skill]Vengeful Weapon[/skill][skill]Weapon of Remedy[/skill][skill]Soothing Memories[/skill][skill]Renewing Memories[/skill][skill]Generous Was Tsungrai[/skill][skill]Flesh of My Flesh[/skill]

I found it to be energy efficient and very good at helping to heal and add damage. The monk might hardly have to touch the tank if you alternate between soothing, vengeful, and weapon of remedy. Searing Flames is less of a threat when you just alternate vengeful and weapon of remedy on the person being attacked.
Even though it will be the other player seeing the damage and healing numbers for those weapon spells, they do help a lot. Essentially you have healing, damage and healing+damage in there. Just concentrate more on the left side of the bar for offensive and the right for more defense. It's very versatile. This is a good example of not only how a ritualist can heal and damage well in the same build, but also what Terra Xin said about how they are very group friendly. This build uses your teammates for everything. You will not have to target any enemies while using this.

Edit: If you want to use a secondary, try using a mesmer with inspiration and Inspired/Revealed hex instead of Renewing Memories, and Drain Enchantment instead of Vengeful Weapon for a more varied role while maintaining some energy management.

LifeInfusion · Jan 01, 2007, 02:26 AM // 02:26

Redfeather1975, I still think builds like "Professor Gai" and the rit henches use are more preferable because they don't try to split into channeling.

IMO, Pumping spawning for Renewing Memories and/or Attuned was Songkai is more useful than points in for Channeling ancestors rage/nightmare weapon and it makes you more efficient energy wise. Also since Attuned is an item spell, it synergizes with renewing memories.

And yes, I have tried builds like that. I just don't like them as much as an attuned healer. I would use Mend Body and Soul and Wielder's Boon instead of trying to pull off Ancestor's Rage and Nightmare weapon for damage, since weapon spells don't stack (meaning you cannot use Nightmare weapon very often anyway) and the damage of Ancestor's Rage is so conditional very much like Balthazar's Aura. You also have to wait for weapon spells to come off before putting a new one because you effectively waste energy when you overwrite.

EDIT: PS. I want to see the rit buffed also, specifically after spiritual pain.

LightningHell · Jan 01, 2007, 02:36 AM // 02:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by Terra Xin

I've already had this argument. Channeling Magic has a Higher DPS than Air Magic - even with Air Magic's 25% Armour Penetration. Air Magic is accompanied by blind and weakness (and fyi to the EDIT. there's only one Ritualist skill that "blows" up spirits)

Air Magic is not known for its DPS.

Redfeather1975 · Jan 01, 2007, 02:43 AM // 02:43

The reason why I don't use Weilder's Boon is because all those weapon spells are spammers. They can be recast every 3-5 seconds and realistically will only last 1-2 seconds.
Attuned is a good energy management spell, but generous is for my own survival and rezzing with flesh of my flesh. Weapon of Remedy is not a bad spell in the slightest!
Alternating Vengeful and WoR on someone is quite evil.

Oh, also I don't have Nightmare weapon. It's splinter weapon because I don't want to negate doing damage for that heal.
Edit: I also forget, I really wanted to make it so you don't target any monsters. It's all about using your teammates as vessels. And since my first character was a mesmer, I get so nervous using skills that take a while to cast and have long recharges.

Calen The Civl · Jan 01, 2007, 06:17 AM // 06:17

I have been playing my rit for quite a long time now (she's my main character) and have often been welcomed warmly into parties. I just ask what roles they want filled, and if they don't have one I spec to do whatever I feel like at the time. There have been many times when my rit has single handedly changed the outcome of a battle or mission. (Had all the party but me wipe. Spirits cleaned up the aggro mess until it was safe for me to rez)

If I would like to see anything change about the rit are the weapon spells. As the durations stand currently on them, they are extremely high maintenance when you run a weapon only build. A handful of seconds is just too long unless all you like to do is keep track of timers for each party member. It is not like a proper rit build has energy problems, so why not up the duration of some of the spells to 60secs max?

I agree the rit is a party player. Most of their skill line requires party cooperation for them to be effective. The much stated example is a rit creating a spirit artillery platform- the party needs to draw the mobs in range of the platform. Parties that do this, however, often notice how much easier things go. Its a matter of making other players aware of what the rit can do in order to increase their effectiveness.

Iscana · Jan 01, 2007, 10:22 PM // 22:22

When factions came out, Ritualists were a little banned from the gameplay. No one was kind to accept a Ritualist in its party because everyone was blaiming every attribute of them. Channeling wasn't like Ele lightning, healing wasn't like a monk, spirits were too weak and lon recast and spawning was like pink elephants in a sky, something nobody understand what it did.

Right now I notice more and more that Ritualists are going to be more popular rather then die. I see more and more Rits going into Arena's and actually win with good teamwork. Also these days Ritualists are really a helping hand in Missions + bonus goals. I still remember when I ws in factions I had problems finding a party who accepted me, but now when I join an area people almost directly want to accept me, and that's quite good.

Today I did for the first time ever run a spirit build for the complete day, and man how many people were happy about it. I even got a few times people saying, go spirit spammer plz, they rock and are in certain ways even better then minnions. (not my oppinion

)

Anyways, there's still 1 thing that bothers me about spirits. I know that you can only cast 1 the same spirit per team per area, but why did I had 2 bloodsongs, 2 Union spirits in my area afther I was spamming them. Or can this only be done in PvE or has it to do that you can only cast the same spirit if it's out of range from the other? I made a screenshot, and yes I was quite suprised about it. An no there wasn't a 2nd Rit

Terra Xin · Jan 02, 2007, 07:10 AM // 07:10

Quote:

Originally Posted by unmatchedfury

YOu can't compare wards to spirits. Eles don't have to have wards to function. Ritulists do. As for influencing a Spirit to your advatage.. you have to do this to make them as effective as a ward.

As effective as a ward? You see that's funny, you just told me not to make comparisons between other classes. Could you tell me what you're doing? I think we can move past the fact that types of skills are not naturally superior to others, but function in different ways. That was the point I was trying to make.

Quote:

The point being ritulists just aren't that great right now. AS for Ele dps being better than a rits.. Its true,for air magic, over a minute.

*sigh* Its not true, it hasn't been tested. Please stop stating rumours as fact. *sighs again* I'll do a test myself. I'll go and get Fraps and spend hours uploading a testing demonstration...

Quote:

Fire magic however has burning, adding another +14 dps. Against warriors or armored targets rits do about 40 dps (if left alone and un harassed, which isn't very likely but for theory crafting reasons we'll ignore this..) against soft casters they(rits) excel mainly because the caster can't really kite OR go behind walls so its only defense is shelter or prot spirit. but against armored targets rits can't doo a whole lot. BUt guess what? eles are good agaist soft targets too, in fact their just as good as rits. You use air magic as an example. THe truth is fire magic is the real dmg dealer because 14 of its 50 somethign dps verses targets is garanteed, its can't be outarmored (like a rits attack can) its just there and another annoyance.

Just because burning causes +14 damage per second is not the same thing as saying that they have +14DPS over a minute. Elementalists cannot keep burning on their targets on a constant basis. You need to follow through with your examples, and not stop at air magic.

Quote:

This is why rits aren't as good as eles. They have to stay in the same place, can't chase down targets, and basicly act as defense.

True, but while they are in the same place, they can deal a constant stream of wonderful channeling towards their targets. You don't play a channelers in the same way as an Elementalist play their own class, know that their are differences to each class, and master them. Know, firstly that a Channeler can set up a vantage point, and anything within range will be hurt. Know that Channelers can simultaneously provide support towards their team while they are in their vantage point, and know that Channelers have excellent energy management, so they can last through the night.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Life Infusion

There is no point in getting a car that can do anything else another one can, for the same price. That's what you're missing here. A ritualist can do a variety things, but it cannot do them as well unless it specializes, so therefore it is a waste of a party slot unless the ritualist specializes and tells his or her team beforehand.

You're going around in circles. I've already said that the Rit does not do things better than a particular class, but they can do many more things at once that no other class can do as effectively.

Quote:

You say "the ritualist is the master of Coordination between other professions" but there is no consequential evidence to back this up. Meanwhile "Channeling Magic has a Higher DPS than Air Magic - even with Air Magic's 25% Armour Penetration" is another assumption you make without any real numbers.

Consequential? Re-read this entire post. Every single post, then evaluate the pros with the cons, and then make a reply. Start with this quote following:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Calen The Civil

Its a matter of making other players aware of what the rit can do in order to increase their effectiveness.

Yes. There are so many positive testimonies in this thread, you'd be surprised if someone, somehow invented a multiplier between members who posted in this thread, compared to the entire GW population. Increasing the overall effectiveness of a party is the effectiveness that specialization brings. Increasing the overall effectiveness of each party member is what the ritualist has. The mesmer was fabled to not specialise in anything. Look at them now^^.

There's no evidence that states that Lightning Magic deals more damage than Channeling. People just assumed that the whole line is useless. That's what happens when people are too lazy to test things out.

If you want to get into detail, here's how you can do it:

Your calculations have gaps in them. When you are testing Damage Per Second, you are calculating the average amount of damage a subject can do over a period of time, not the amount of damage that single particular skills can do. (By the way, you didn't really prove anything with the numbers you submitted by the skills listed.... and the numbers are wrong... and the information supplied is biased.)

Quote:

If we're talking PvE, that's like comparing Flare to Shock Arrow: One has higher damage to compensate for lack of Armor penetration. But 57 compared to 48 doesn't make up for 25% armor penetration. Sorry.

...Wrong. It's 49 by Shock Arrow and 48 by Flare, sorry. At rank 16, its 57 By Flare and 63 by Shock Arrow. And before saying so, Shock arrow doesn't have a higher DPS, thanks to its 1 sec recharge.

Quote:

Meteor Shower has a 60 second recharge, a 5 second cast time...how does this compare to spiritual pain in any way?

Please read my post more carefully - I did make comparisons. The reference was made to a skils ability to kill spirits. Again, please read more carefully.

Quote:

Wards can have a 100% upkeep without use of an elite like Soul Twisting or Ritual Lord. They cannot be removed by someone beating on them either. Not to mention the wards don't take 3-5 seconds to cast. Don't get me wrong, damage spirits are nice for pressure and utility (Shadowsong, anyone?), provided they don't get killed in like 2 hits by the opposition...which is why we have Spawning Power.

Wards also have a shorter range than any other defensive spirit, and do not attack. And it takes an average of 6-8 hits without Spawning Power to kill a spirit at rank 12... not 2. Ritual Lord is used in the most boring of builds, so I wont go into that.

Quote:

P.S. when I said blows up spirits I meant the Rupture Soul skill that blinds. Blind was Mingson; Weapon of Shadow are more conditional than Elementalist blinds.

Weapon of Shadow has great utility use - where the point is to stop a target from hitting another, that particular weapon does a perfect job of it. Blind essentially does nothing for you if they aren't attacking in the first place. Blind them and have the condition in effect when they attack, not when they are running around chasing, that's the essence of the Shadow Weapon.

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Originally Posted by Lightning Hell

Air Magic is not known for its DPS.

And yet, people somehow think that "Air Magic deals more damage than Channeling" while assuming that DPS has nothing to do with it? O...K. Let me make a correction: Air Magic is known for its high damage and high damage over time (which is "coincidentally" known as DPS), and indirectly assumed to deal more damage than Channeling - the first is true, the second is false.

(Rant: God, I don't know why I'm defending rits so much. If I deliver the results, they're just gonna get nerfed.

)

Epinephrine · Jan 02, 2007, 03:51 PM // 15:51

I don't think Weapon of Shadow is a good example - it's likely the crappiest skill for defending a team.

With a maximum uptime of about 38% (10 out of 26 seconds) it pales beside skills like Guardian; it provides only about 45% miss rate against hammers, scythes and bows, and about 60% miss rate versus axes, daggers and swords. Not sure how the 3 second blindness interacts with the 1.5 second attack speed of a spear, it'll either be 45% or 60%, depending on whether the second attack is also blinded.

It costs more to run than a Guardian costs (as guardian can have enchantment duration +20%), and doesn't stack with the ritualist's other weapon spells.

Overall, given that it is up 38% of the time, maximum, on a single target, it provides a paltry 17% miss rate vs hammers, scythes, and bows and a 23% miss rate versus the other weapons. Pretty lousy in my mind. Yeah, it has slight advantages in some settings, but not nearly enough to make up for its weaknesses.

Sihaya Syme · Jan 02, 2007, 09:57 PM // 21:57

I started playing a ritualist two weeks ago and I am in love <3

I don't understand what everyone finds so bad about them... They're perfect, especially considering my tendencies to go tank with low armour classes (I also have a N/Me and Me/Mo...)
I love weapon spells ^_^

Redfeather1975 · Jan 03, 2007, 12:39 AM // 00:39

It probably started when people didn't see ritualists in GVG play due to the skill restrictions for the 2006 Winterday tournament. Guilds probably didn't want to use a profession before the tournament and of course during, in that they couldn't use most of it's skills in the actual tournament, lest they'd forfeit the match or be disqualified as per the tournamanet rules.

I'm sure a lot of people knew about the tournamanet restrictions that greatly influenced ritualist play in the last quarter of 2006, but some people may not have and thought that the profession itself was being considered poor by high end PVPers.

black_mamba · Jan 05, 2007, 06:48 AM // 06:48

uhh yea.. i just wanted to say that i dont think rits are dead, because well.. they arent! i beat NF with my rit for the first time. and found many appealing skills like anguish for example to be very usefull