Curse

frojack · Dec 13, 2006, 01:12 PM // 13:12

Ritualist's are ok. A bit under-nourished but well enough to survive the winter. Not sure about Channeling out-damaging Air though. Sure, in a perfect world after a while the Ritualist will still keep on blasting while the Ele struggles with energy. Those low-power but consistent spells do add up. We don't live in a perfect world however...
A ritualists most damaging, bread and butter attack is Channeling Strike. An awesome attack spell. However it requires you to hold an item to get 'near' Lightning Orb damage (the damage is lower by default and gets lower the higher the armour value of it's target) and at the same time, lowering the energy, hp, armour, and casting/recharge benefit's you get from weapons.
Plus The Ritualist doesn't really have a spell as durable or as useful as Lightning Javelin or Lightning Strike. Spirit Burn can do more damage but as it's name suggests, requires the proximity of a spirit to achieve this. It also suffers the same 'higher, AL poorer comparative results' problem of Channeling Strike. That's not even taking into account things like knockdown. A Ritualist can not achieve knockdown with channeling. I love my Ritualist but I have to say that I have never, ever been toppled by one before in a match-up and I have had a few.
If my opponent is lucky and I'm not armoured up or using Mirror of Ice/Obsidian Flesh for laughs, he'd be on his arse the whole time anyways. The one thing I've learned about running an elementalist against all the different types of casters is that knockdown owns them all.
Not saying ele's are a lot stronger, not saying anything of the sort. Just that the inability to deliver 1 of the 2 best conditions in the game (the other of course being DW) seriously hampers an offensive casters ability to kill.

...But that's ok though. Ritualists are not Elementalists. That I believe is the point

.

Lyphen · Dec 13, 2006, 01:26 PM // 13:26

Well, when henching in Factions, I always bring along Gai or Aeson, they do make a big different. Come to think of it, I did Tahnakkai temple a few days back, and I think the Ritualist single-handedly saved our butts a few times. I normaly try to solo missions, but I guess now, if I see a ritualist looking for a group, I'll accomodate! I know what it's like as a mesmer to be the underdog.

I'll be running through Factions (Vizunah Foreign onwards) and Thunderhead Keep onwards this week on my ranger, Sailyphe Tosaitii and a relative's Axe warrior if anyone wants a part of my godly orders barrage/triple chop group!

Cebe · Dec 13, 2006, 02:07 PM // 14:07

Quote:

Originally Posted by frojack

Ritualist's are ok. A bit under-nourished but well enough to survive the winter. Not sure about Channeling out-damaging Air though. Sure, in a perfect world after a while the Ritualist will still keep on blasting while the Ele struggles with energy. Those low-power but consistent spells do add up. We don't live in a perfect world however...

*snip*

That's not even taking into account things like knockdown. A Ritualist can not achieve knockdown with channeling. I love my Ritualist but I have to say that I have never, ever been toppled by one before in a match-up and I have had a few.

I play an air elementalist. Unless an outside influence drains off my energy I can go on forever and probably not have my energy dip much below 50...although I agree with you that an Air elementalist could probably outdamage a Channeling Ritualist.

Also Channeling can knockdown: Grasping was Kurrong

Giga Strike · Dec 13, 2006, 02:28 PM // 14:28

i personally think that ritualists have endless potential. the only reason not many ppl realise that is because the rits have alot of seemingly useless skills that if put to work with other skills pwn.

ive already experimented with a spirit weapon barrager with little success. most of them didnt work as well as id hoped and still didnt surpass a critical barrager or an elemental one. even so i continue to experiment with spirit weapons for other uses and may have come up with a good interuper.

Calen The Civl · Dec 13, 2006, 03:21 PM // 15:21

The ritualist is my primary character; I have just beat Nightfall with her. Ritualists are complex. While a mesmer must know the capabilities of a foe to be effective, a ritualist must know the environment, the foe (to a lesser extent than a mesmer) , and most importantly themselves to be effective.

The interconnection of their skills make them a challenge to play well. That is why the ritualist is dying after the ritual lord nerf (which I think is a bit of an overly harsh nerf). The list of skills that cost 15-25 energy is long and is another large deterrent. Although the ritualist as energy management ability that is on par with the mesmer if a little different.

When I play as a ritualist, I fill any niche the party needs. I rarely have problems getting into groups; I can even be as selective of groups as a monk gets to be. Most groups want protection or healing; In a good group a support healer (heal party etc) and a ritualist as the primary can do well without the always desired monk. If a team needs a tank, tank the ritualist can if more limited and conditional than a warrior.

I tend to avoid channeling when teams need nukers. Against high armor targets wanding with spirits strength and brutal weapon does almost the same amount of damage. I use spirits when "nuking" is needed. A handful of spirits can easily pull down a level 28 critter.

Again, the ritualist is a jack of all trades and rounds a party out nicely. Keep experimenting and we will eventually find something the rit can be better doing than any other class (other than versatility).

frojack · Dec 13, 2006, 08:00 PM // 20:00

Quote:

Originally Posted by Celestial Beaver

I play an air elementalist. Unless an outside influence drains off my energy I can go on forever and probably not have my energy dip much below 50...although I agree with you that an Air elementalist could probably outdamage a Channeling Ritualist.

Also Channeling can knockdown: Grasping was Kurrong

Snap! I knew I was forgetting something. Thanks for the correction.

(Kurrong however isn't really useful enough to warrant it's use outside of a specialist Team build.)

Edit: BTW, I'm not necessarily saying that they can out-damage them (I would assume so, but I haven't ran tests to that effect) I am just pointing out the fact that in real-world terms, killing with spells is more effective as an Elementalist.

Carth` · Dec 14, 2006, 01:26 AM // 01:26

The problem is ritualists aren't really the best at anything. There are better damage dealers, better healers, better protectors etc. You take a ritualist if you can't find a better character. But the ritualist doesn't have a defined role, they are quite good at things that other characters can already do, but don't have any one thing they do best themselves (except for.. spirit spamming in RA l;ol).

Redfeather1975 · Dec 14, 2006, 03:05 AM // 03:05

They are versatile. I find that a pro not a con. I think other people do as well.
I think the problem lies in some of the players only wanting the best at something, and not recognizing that being good, but not great at everything is a strength.
A class who specializes in an area is going to stuggle in others.
A class that is versatile, may not excel in any area, but will allow the player to stick to that one class while playing any role in the game well enough to get by.
I guess it depends on how many characters a person wants to make. If you only want to make 1, but you want to do just about everything in the game, it's wise to pick a rit or mesmer.

unmatchedfury · Dec 14, 2006, 04:15 AM // 04:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by Redfeather1975

They are versatile. I find that a pro not a con. I think other people do as well.
I think the problem lies in some of the players only wanting the best at something, and not recognizing that being good, but not great at everything is a strength.
A class who specializes in an area is going to stuggle in others.
A class that is versatile, may not excel in any area, but will allow the player to stick to that one class while playing any role in the game well enough to get by.
I guess it depends on how many characters a person wants to make. If you only want to make 1, but you want to do just about everything in the game, it's wise to pick a rit or mesmer.

In PvE that’s fine. You’ll get picked up cause people know your the only other class besides monk that can heal, and your usually more intelligent than a hero monk. You’ll get picked up cause protection is kina nice and there are still too many noob pargons around.

but in PvP there's no need for "versatility" as a strength. You need to have peak effecitiancy at the job you do, no the potential to be able to play a lot of varying builds, the amount of builds in your build template doesn’t help you after the map is loaded, your just worse than a monk, worse than a ele( please do not tell me that Searing flames is inferior to a rit channeler) and worse than a paragon. There’s nothing you can do that a PvP party can’t get 20% better from another class.

Well let me retract that, the only thing a ritulast can do better than any other class in PvP is offensive spirits to control an area. The problem with these is how buggy they are.

I like rits. Rits are fun as hell to play In PvE and people like them, just don’t expect your guild to beg you to play rit in the next GvG

Amok Affinity · Dec 14, 2006, 04:21 AM // 04:21

dead? i love my rit.

someone asked for skill tags, heres some stuff to throw together for no-brainer comm./chan. spirit build.

[skill]boon of creation[/skill][skill]attuned was songkai[/skill] emanagement

[skill]pain[/skill][skill]bloodsong[/skill][skill]anguish[/skill] + [skill]painful bond[/skill] damage

there's the core for you. you can throw in union or whatever the hell you want, dissonance, disenchantment, whatever really. more attacking spirits = better. maybe /me to echo bond if you can work the energy out

Carth` · Dec 14, 2006, 06:50 AM // 06:50

Quote:

Originally Posted by Redfeather1975

They are versatile. I find that a pro not a con. I think other people do as well.
I think the problem lies in some of the players only wanting the best at something, and not recognizing that being good, but not great at everything is a strength.
A class who specializes in an area is going to stuggle in others.
A class that is versatile, may not excel in any area, but will allow the player to stick to that one class while playing any role in the game well enough to get by.
I guess it depends on how many characters a person wants to make. If you only want to make 1, but you want to do just about everything in the game, it's wise to pick a rit or mesmer.

I can definitely see the advantage of taking a character that is the best at something over a character that can do more than one thing. Guild Wars is a team game, a build isn't made up of one skill bar, but of your whole team's combined skill bars. So you have the best healers, best damage dealers etc, rather than 8 people who are quite good at a few things.

A class that specialises in something won't struggle in other areas, he has his allies to cover those areas, and his allies do a much better job of it than he can, leaving him to fill his role.

If you want to only make 1 character, but want to do everything in the game, I advise you make a monk. They are needed in nearly every team in nearly every location. A ritualist or mesmer is an awful choice for your only PvE character, unless you intend to only play the game with henchmen. Your role in PvE as those characters is questionable, since another character can do it better in most situations.

crucifix · Dec 14, 2006, 07:03 AM // 07:03

Quote:

Of course, Channelers deal more damage than any elementalist, and a ritualst need to only take a couple of restoration spells to make a good healer (where a monk needs a whole bar + energy management). But noone looks at that...

you're kidding... right? Now possibly, if they gave rits some armor penetration on all of the lightning attacks, it qould be useful for damage, but they don't, so it sucks.

why arent rits used in pvp? they are, but only in NR/ tranq builds for spirit spamming, and thats as a secondary. Ritualists are crap healers, the majority of the heals are conditional and/ or suck. lets see what else... ahh, what the rit could do... spirit spam. Yeah, thats only used now for a battery for necro teams in pvp. for the most part, those spirits are used for energy and energy only. what else is there.... humm... NOTHING! now, if rits had clear cut skills that they excelled at more than any other character, they would be fantastic. Unfortunately, this isnt true. mesmers, necros, rangers, etc, etc, make a much better utility character for any team over a rit.

Terra Xin · Dec 14, 2006, 07:46 AM // 07:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by frojack

...But that's ok though. Ritualists are not Elementalists. That I believe is the point

.

The only air elementalist that I've lost to was probrably one who used Lightning Shock - and that one only got the better of me because I couldn't even stand up to retaliate. Then again, I just had to sneak in a couple of castings of Mend Body and Soul, and I'd be fine. Other than that.... nope, can't think of a single 1 on 1 match that ive lost to an elementalist.

You're on the nose that rits are not elementalists. The good thing about the channeling line is that the point of the rits damage is the ability to spam over and over again, coupled with the overly nice Essence Strike, that skill alone can fuel your skills for a very long time. Channeled Strike isn't my favourite skill, I don't like using any skills that cost 10 energy while I'm holding an item, so energy management would need for me to be used in the elite form. Plus, two seconds is one second too long.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Crucifix

you're kidding... right? Now possibly, if they gave rits some armor penetration on all of the lightning attacks, it qould be useful for damage, but they don't, so it sucks.

...no I'm not. Anytime you're interested in a test trive, feel free to contact me anytime. One of my character names is there, anyone will do :P.

Carth` · Dec 14, 2006, 09:03 AM // 09:03

I don't think 1v1 proves anything, and is in fact quite pointless. If you want to prove the usefulness of a rit, don't do it with a 1v1 battle. Do it with a real scenario in PvP or PvE where a ritualist is a better choice than another character.

The only thing I can think of is Soul Twisting Shelter in a hard area of PvE.

Redfeather1975 · Dec 14, 2006, 09:18 AM // 09:18

Just like to point out that there are millions of people playing this game and Anet probably thought that some of the audience wanted a versatile class and was not interested in being the best at something.

There needs to be balance and having a class that can do almost everything and also be the best at some things is not balanced.

I know some of you don't like that. So don't pick the profession. It's not meant for you. It's versatility was created to try and get Guild Wars to appeal to a broader fan base. There are 9 other professions if you are not happy with what ritualists are.

I'd also like to add from both a PVP and PVE standpoint, that it can be advantageous to have a class using a build that is capable of many roles as support, and also has some of the best self heals+self rezzing abilities,that work through 'frozen soil', in the game.
If you don't want your groups dps or healing to drop drastically when a particular profession dies, it might be a good idea to bring a profession that can step in and switch gears to fill that gap, and that can also heal themselves very well as well as insta-rez themselves.
I hope everyone understands why I think that a profession capable of creating a large number of decent, but not uber, 'jack of all trade' builds can be useful.

Terra Xin · Dec 14, 2006, 11:15 AM // 11:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by Carth`

I don't think 1v1 proves anything, and is in fact quite pointless. If you want to prove the usefulness of a rit, don't do it with a 1v1 battle. Do it with a real scenario in PvP or PvE where a ritualist is a better choice than another character.

The only thing I can think of is Soul Twisting Shelter in a hard area of PvE.

I've already proven myself in both PvE and PvP. I got myself Mighty Gladiator through TA using my channeler, and I'm working on an HA build... still needs a few tweaks, but I think it will work. In PvE, whenever I used my channeling build, people thought I was pretty awesome, made me feel good, but I doubt they thought much more of the potential.

The point was whether an elementalist can outdamage a rit, a 1v1 is perfect for such a situation. But seriously, if you really think the profession is that useless, then I can't spare the time convincing you otherwise. I think i'll do what I've been doing since I chose to play a rit - to do a damn good job of it^^.

Soul Twisting + Shelter? *yawn*

edit: btw, saying that elementalists can outpower rits without any sort of testing done on your behalf is half an assuption.

arcanemacabre · Dec 14, 2006, 11:27 AM // 11:27

Honestly, I'd say the Paragon and the Ritualist are interchangeable in a team. I, personally love both. I'd say the people who think Rits are dead are the same ones that think Mesmers in PvE are useless.

Mogster · Dec 14, 2006, 11:28 AM // 11:28

i see atleast 1 rit in most majour areas i travel to, im huge rit fan just finished my mummy armor hehe, best rit armor IMO ;p

Skuld · Dec 14, 2006, 02:12 PM // 14:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by escoffier

most people dont understand what rits can do and therefore dont want them,they arent the easiest proffesion to play either.but by god i love my rit!

More like they're completely broken and inferior to monks and paras (even dervs..).

Domino · Dec 14, 2006, 04:45 PM // 16:45

The Ritualist, just like the Assassin, are fine surgeons tools... in the right hands they are quite deadly. However, if you don't have an intimate understanding of how these professions work, and hours upon hours of logged practice in PvP and PvE.... then you'll quickly dismiss them as "broken" and "unusuable"