Curse

Zahr Dalsk · Dec 29, 2009, 09:38 AM // 09:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by iToasterHD

I do not comprehend why everyone takes things so personally.

Because this is a forum. There are account names and avatars and moderators. Attention whoring and ass-licking and fighting. You want calm people for a friendly chat? Go to an anonymous image board like 4chan. Everyone's much more relaxed and open. Even the shit boards like /mu/ and /b/ tend to have higher quality of discussion than the average forum.

Benderama · Dec 29, 2009, 11:12 AM // 11:12

if i were you (not sure what everyone else would do) i'd replace recuperation with rejuvenation and maybe change flesh of my flesh for death pact signet.
like everyone else i'd just get siphon spirit for energy and have a few spirits up.

EwolxNavi · Dec 29, 2009, 05:10 PM // 17:10

I play my ritualist as a resto primarily. And I fully recognize that it is a support class, and that monks outheal and outprot it. But it does have its uses. I personally use mine for continous pressure healing and unstrippable weapon spells. My current bar is Factions only (I haven't moved her to Nightfall or beyond yet), but in my experience it has proved very useful [u]when used in conjuction with a monk[/i], even in HM. Attuned was Songkai is nice, but I haven't got the spirits to run that effectively yet. I usually take Preservation and Life, and Spirit Siphon for e-management. Weapon spells are Vengeful, Splinter either Warding or Nightmare, depending on whether or not I need to lay down armor ignoring on my melee's. Mend Body and Soul is a constant, and I bring Weilder's Boon now instead of Soothing Memories, for the synergy with weapon spells. Spirit Light alternates, I like the spike, but the casting time takes a little management.

Not a great build, but its worked for me so far, and allows me to modify my party's damage (so they can do more damage) while taking pressure off the monk. I've found that this works with either spikers or protters too. It's also good for synergizing with (and getting out of the way of) an SoS rit too, as the effectiveness of MBaS and Spirit Siphon increase with the number of available spirits.

AndroBubbles · Dec 30, 2009, 12:19 AM // 00:19

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zahr Dalsk

Why would you post this? It just proves that the Ritualist cannot match a Monk's healing.

No, it proves that a ritualist can easily be on par with a monk in terms of healing efficiency while still allowing for other utility skills.

Spirits in general act as aggro absorption.

SoS + Splinter Weapon + Ancestor's Rage for more team DPS, as well as fuel for Feast of Souls.

Xinrae's Weapon for a heal/quick prot/slight addition to DPS.

Ritualists are also ridiculously efficient at party healing without expending energy or requiring GoLE. The fact that their skills synchronize in so many ways is what makes them so good.

I will, more often than not, pick my monk for protection and my ritualist for healing.

Zahr Dalsk · Dec 30, 2009, 10:53 AM // 10:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by AndroBubbles

No, it proves that a ritualist can easily be on par with a monk in terms of healing efficiency

Except it doesn't prove that.

http://www.guildwarsguru.com/forum/s...5&postcount=13

See here, a Ritualist's healing is sufficient that they can incorporate it in a general support build, even though it doesn't match the Monk's healing.

AndroBubbles · Jan 01, 2010, 12:31 AM // 00:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zahr Dalsk

Except it doesn't prove that.

http://www.guildwarsguru.com/forum/s...5&postcount=13

See here, a Ritualist's healing is sufficient that they can incorporate it in a general support build, even though it doesn't match the Monk's healing.

The faulty post you linked doesn't give me much to go on, and there are enough skills to make me stand behind what I said for now.

Gennadios · Jan 02, 2010, 08:00 AM // 08:00

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zahr Dalsk

Healing prayers 12+1+1, Divine Favour 12+1

Patient Spirit: 166, with HB 213
Dwayna's Kiss: Variable, but generally goes in the area of 150-200, and often up near 500.
E-Light: 137, with HB 185
Orison: 109, with HB 143

Patient spirit: With the wait, 2.25sec. to take affect
Dwayna's Kiss: Cannot self target, conditional. Provided you're casting on only a targe /w patient spirit you're looking about 120
E-Light: easily interrupted, 5 sec. recharge. Dependant on an elite.
Orison: About on par with Rit. skills. Good recharge though.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zahr Dalsk

With UA the numbers will be even higher, although it's true they won't have the Fast Casting that HB provides. Combine HB and UA and you get some truly high numbers, although this requires some alternate e-management to replace GoLE and account for UA maintenance..

High numbers are great, but they tend to come at the expense of longevity. The 1e degen will choke you 20-30sec. down the line, with or without GoLE. As long as we're throwing elites into the mix, /w Attuned Was Songkai, Soothing memories gives back 2e and all other 5e spells cost 2.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zahr Dalsk

All you need are two of these healing spells. Add in condition removal, seed, gole or mimicry, e-management, HB, and a res, and you're set to go with your healing powerhouse.

High healing or no, even if you're going Tank 'n Spank, two spells won't be able to recharge at a high enough rate to keep a single target alive in some of the higher level areas. If you're going 12/12 healing/divine favor you're in the same boat as the rit is, you need a prot. for backup.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zahr Dalsk

Then we have stuff like Healing Seed, which when properly placed can heal the entire party for hundreds of health over a few seconds. Heal Party comes in at 108 for the entire party.

Healing seed is an adjacent ally effect skill.. if your party is bunched up close enough to get use out of it... Well, I wouldn't hold out hope for getting much done in between healing seed recharges. I mostly use it on tanks to keep the surrounding minion wall alive.

Heal party costs 15e. Not exactly spammable. You're pretty much relying on GoLE recharges /w it.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zahr Dalsk

Just for fun, because you seem to think your tiny numbers are a lot, let's look at infuse health:

Infuse health: 645. That's right, a 1/4 cast spell can bring someone from the brink of death to absolute full health. The monk can also counter their own health loss easily with the aforementioned spells. Even without HB, you can still get a good 402 health out of it. With UA you can approach 700 health.

With UA and HB through mimicry you can infuse over 1000 health in 1/4 of a second. There's no reason why you'd ever need to do that, nor is it energy efficient - but you can if you like. Is that a large enough number for you? Over 1000? It's not even very difficult to do. Any time you're rolling with UA and HB (with another monk) and you decide to bring Infuse Health, yeah, you can be blasting out 1000-point heals every now and then if you want to. Then you heal your own lost health with a single healing spell. Feels good man.

I couldnt' care less about large numbers if your build sputters out from spamming 10/15e skills after a 30 second engagement.

Heals coming in "now and then" isn't how a healer is supposed to roll. You're either healing constantly, getting booted back to the outpost due to DP.

If you want to be spamming infuse, Eles are the way to go. They have the mechanisms to regain health lost in fractions of seconds, as well as the energy to spam it indefinitely, which is not something I can say for monks.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zahr Dalsk

Regardless of what number comparisons we do here, a ritualist will never outheal a monk.

Why worry about outhealing a monk if the rit has the capacity to simply outlast them? Not every battle is guaranteed to end in 30 seconds.

If you're really dumping 12/12 healing/divine favor, you're heavily underutilizing your profession. Instead of competing /w the lowly rit, you should go the damage mitigation route. Two spike healers will always be inferior to a healer and a protector.

AndroBubbles · Jan 02, 2010, 09:10 AM // 09:10

To add a bit more to what Gennadios said in terms of endurance, let's take a few skills into account.

Recuperation has the highest potential for net healing in the game. It supports any ally (sans spirits) in range. If you calculate with restoration at 14, it gives a net total of 258 health PER ally. Remember that this effect includes the minions you use for tanking and activating your offensive hexes, and all other beneficial/necessary NPCs in range. 25 energy for a net gain of 258 health PER "ally" in spirit range is something a monk cannot match under any circumstances.

Protective was Kaolai and Life can be cycled at half recharged intervals to provide a steady stream of energy efficient party healing every 10 seconds. Remember that Life, like Recuperation, affects all "allies" in its range. Combined with the plethora of energy management that a ritualist has access to, this is once again an area that more than matches a monk.

The ability to precast a party heal before battle is also invaluable, since you can essentially have a free party heal if your energy recharges a few seconds before a fight begins.

Then you have to take into account the ability to control when these party heals activate, which can be instantaneous, and can be synchronized further with other skills that can provide even more healing or some other beneficial effect for the ritualist or its party. Feast of Souls is an excellent example. If you want to go into pure numbers, there's a lot of ways a ritualist can match a monk, if not surpass it.

Large, maintainable numbers have the advantage if you ask me.

MasterSasori · Jan 03, 2010, 04:01 AM // 04:01

Quote:

Originally Posted by iToasterHD

Allow me to summarize. When healing, damage mitigation is key. It not only protects your allies from taking damage it also aids you in energy management. Ritualists for the most part lack damage mitigation spells and therefore in that sense is inferior to a monk. When damage mitigation fails, and your allies take damage a healer has to spike heal. While a restoration Ritualist is quite capable of spike healing, ultimately a monk can vastly out spike heal a Ritualist. This simply means that a monk has more potentiality for spike healing, but both are effective in the right hands.

Well said.

And with this whole Rit v. Monk healing and crap. Let's just end the discussion with the fact that ER Infuser ele is superior

End of discussion.

iToasterHD · Jan 16, 2010, 09:56 AM // 09:56

Well, I have been still struggling trying to find a decent Resto build. Currently I am trying to decide if I should spec in Spawning or Channeling along with Restoration. Spawning has some good skills for energy management...but channeling has Spirit Siphon.

Zahr Dalsk · Jan 16, 2010, 09:41 PM // 21:41

Quote:

Originally Posted by iToasterHD

Well, I have been still struggling trying to find a decent Resto build.

Because there isn't one. The closest you'll get is a Necro-primary restoration build.

Stealth Bomberman · Jan 18, 2010, 01:58 AM // 01:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by iToasterHD

Okay, explain why a Ritualist cannot match a Monk in healing? I recently created a monk and while playing her I realized I'd much rather just heal with my Ritualist.

agreed. ive been in ta with a rit and outhealed enemy monks. its all about how u play it i guess. for me some of the best resto skills imo are:

weapon of remedy
weapon of shadow
weapon of warding
blind was mingson/soothing memories
pure was ming li

i have more, but its been awhile and cant remember. xinrae weapon or however u spell it is overatted. i used it maybe a few times in ra, but never anywhere important.

making a hybrid rit is good, but your really not gonna do well unless ur bar is truly dedicated to healing. the only channeling skills i would take for a resto build would be essence strike and warmongers weapon. anything else u may as well go straight dmg.

Wubbies · Jan 18, 2010, 02:22 AM // 02:22

i use to play resto rit as my main and i blew monks away in healing. for group healing as a whole rit is better imo.

At 16 Resto:

Boon of creation
Preservation- every 4 seconds heals someone for 122
Recuperation- +3 health regen for 47 secs whole group (spammable @16) 45 sec recharge
Rejuvenation- +10 health every sec for whole party
Life- 140 health every 20 seconds
Spirit light - 188 health @ 4 secs recharge
mend body & soul - heals 122 spam @ 3 secs also remove condition
Choice of res or w/e

I ran this old school fow before speedclears when u needed 2 monks for 4 hour run. i had no proble with energy or keeping group alive with NO monks. They got bored of doing nothing and left.

MasterSasori · Jan 18, 2010, 06:45 AM // 06:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wubbies

i use to play resto rit as my main and i blew monks away in healing. for group healing as a whole rit is better imo.

At 16 Resto:

Boon of creation
Preservation- every 4 seconds heals someone for 122
Recuperation- +3 health regen for 47 secs whole group (spammable @16) 45 sec recharge
Rejuvenation- +10 health every sec for whole party
Life- 140 health every 20 seconds
Spirit light - 188 health @ 4 secs recharge
mend body & soul - heals 122 spam @ 3 secs also remove condition
Choice of res or w/e

I ran this old school fow before speedclears when u needed 2 monks for 4 hour run. i had no proble with energy or keeping group alive with NO monks. They got bored of doing nothing and left.

Preservation is an awful skill. Often heals people who need it least. Boon of Creation, Rejuvenation are pretty lackluster. I like recup but that too isn't that great.

This wouldn't heal as well as a HB monk but its still a good healer. But for absolute BEST healer between Monk and Rit can still be debated, but this won't be the foremost favored bar for the rit.

Besides ER Protter ftw.

iToasterHD · Jan 18, 2010, 05:02 PM // 17:02

So let's get some ideas out!

I have been trying to come up with a decent Resto build, and I usually run into energy problems. It seems Spawning Power is not of much use, and I might have to turn to Channeling for Spirit Siphon, or perhaps another profession.

I think if we focus on what the Ritualist CAN do, rather then comparing it to others, we might come up with some good stuff.

Recuperation, Life and Protective was Kaolai are examples of party wide healing that can be used effectively. What else can anyone else think of?

MasterSasori · Jan 18, 2010, 06:53 PM // 18:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by iToasterHD

So let's get some ideas out!

I have been trying to come up with a decent Resto build, and I usually run into energy problems. It seems Spawning Power is not of much use, and I might have to turn to Channeling for Spirit Siphon, or perhaps another profession.

I think if we focus on what the Ritualist CAN do, rather then comparing it to others, we might come up with some good stuff.

Recuperation, Life and Protective was Kaolai are examples of party wide healing that can be used effectively. What else can anyone else think of?

Blind was Mingson is good AoE blind which is good in physical areas and works well with discord.

Weapon of Warding is powerful and unstrippable. Weapon of Shadow is also good if WoW does not suffice.

If you put any spawning, you should also run GDW as even relatively low Spawning makes a difference in the length of GDW due to its 20 sec duration.

Death Pact Signet is the fastest reusable rez. It's drawback is mitigated assuming that your team don't kick the bucket too quickly. Otherwise FoF is still good.

For heals, MBaS and SL are the best in the rit arsenal and MBaS also removes condition and its req is easy to fill as is SL. Very good skills for the cost and recharge. Staple on every restoration rit bar. Soothing memories are also good with item spells.

Recovery is really good in condition heavy areas if the condition removal matters.

Recuperation is ok but is pretty good with minions, which seems to be in every heroway these days. Some people like Rejuvenation, but I don't. Personal preference.

The damaging and healing weapon spells: WoR, Xinrae's, Vengeful are good support heal and WoR is good at removing conditions. Xinrae's is one of the rit's best prot skill and prot is sorely needed in the rit line.

Kaolai is a good item spell.

Everything else is pretty mediocre for the restoration line or unplayable.

So let's try to make an example bar.

For an elite, let's go for WoR. Condition removal, decent heal/support and damage. 1 slot so far.

MBaS and SL for good heals. 3 slots so far.

Need a spirit for MBaS and SL. Life is good since we already have WoR, Recovery isn't as good. Recup is too expensive and I don't like Rejuv. 4 slots.

Add in a second weapon spell. WoW is very good. Can't add more weapon spells or it will conflict with WoW and WoR. 5 slots.

Death Pact signet is good but iffy on a healer. You must be really brave to use this. Stick with FoF. 6 slots.

PwK is a good party wide heal. I would run it. You could also consider Energetic was Lee Sa, a strong emanagement skill. I like to use PwK. 7 slots.

Since I didn't use Lee Sa, I need good emanagement. For this I can go secondary for stuff like /Me for Power Drain or /E for GoLE. But I think Siphon Spirit in Channeling works better. Last and final slot.

So that's a decent bar for Rits. Good enough for most areas in PvE in a decent team. No matter how you make your restoration bar, building the bar needs to cover most of the areas I talked about.

iToasterHD · Jan 19, 2010, 06:36 AM // 06:36

I shall begin experimenting! Thank you very much MasterSasori.

HigherMinion · Jan 19, 2010, 10:47 AM // 10:47

Depending on team setup, I would recommend Rt/N using OoV as the elite. Although not sure how much better/worse it would be to a N/Rt.

Wubbies · Jan 19, 2010, 02:08 PM // 14:08

Quote:

Originally Posted by MasterSasori

Preservation is an awful skill. Often heals people who need it least. Boon of Creation, Rejuvenation are pretty lackluster. I like recup but that too isn't that great.

This wouldn't heal as well as a HB monk but its still a good healer. But for absolute BEST healer between Monk and Rit can still be debated, but this won't be the foremost favored bar for the rit.

Besides ER Protter ftw.

for group heal preservation isnt awful.. drop a spirit that heals randon someone every 4 secs for 122 and you dont push buttons... what you say is an opinion not factual..nor is mine..just wanted to share.

HigherMinion · Jan 19, 2010, 06:35 PM // 18:35

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wubbies

for group heal preservation isnt awful.. drop a spirit that heals randon someone every 4 secs for 122 and you dont push buttons... what you say is an opinion not factual..nor is mine..just wanted to share.

The problem with Preservation is the fact that the heals ARE random, and they will rarely kick in when you need them the most. And because they are random, you will still be spamming heals and wasting energy when it heals the target you were healing.