Curse

Queto · Jun 29, 2006, 09:26 AM // 09:26

First of all, I love this build! I'm finally starting to know where my minions come from, and if I know that, I can Nova them both 95% of the time. I'm still waiting to cap Flesh Golem, then the real fun begins

But you are saying that there would also be a Necro-main MM. I think in many areas there are too few corpses for 2 undead summoners...

trankle · Jul 03, 2006, 05:52 PM // 17:52

Another spell that fits in nicely here is Well of Suffering. It can replace or coexist with Rotting Flesh. I find it's a nice spell to use for my first corpse, to really get the ball rolling.

At 12 DM, it's -5 degen for 26 seconds. It's better than Rotting Flesh in areas like Nahpui Quarter - where your fleshy enemies are mixed in with non-fleshies, who are unaffected by disease. It does, of course, use a corpse, and it doesn't move with a foe, like disease does, but I still find it valuable if used carefully in my Minion Bomber build.

Bargamer · Jul 03, 2006, 06:51 PM // 18:51

Geishe: Nobody likes to be misunderstood, least of all me. However, I did find it rather coincidential that your declaration that you didn't like to be misunderstood echoed what Spindraft said. Some people just handle it better, I guess. Also: Could you link what you said over in GWonline for the rest of us? Thank ya muchly!

Queto: Wow, 95%?! You're better than me, then! XD I'm pretty happy when I get it above 50%. As for your comment about MMs... Been to Vizunah Square Mission yet? One of my friends was laughing about one time when his group of an MM and a bomber met up with the other side who had two bombers. They still couldn't use up all the corpses. Of course, that could be just an indication that there's just mobs of enemies in that mission... Of course, that would not be a good area to bring Blood of the Master... XDDD
But I agree. In most areas, you're gonna only want to stick with you as the MM, and advertise so.

Interestingly enough, my friend gave me an interesting bit of analysis on the difference between necros and Rit MMs. Apparently, Necro-mains are more damage-oriented, and Rits are more about tanking. It makes sense, actually. Higher level minions plus minion heals does tend to favor more damage output, and conversely, Spawning Power does give your minions more health. Honestly though, most groups won't know the difference. They just want an MM. ^^;

--Well: 15 E, 2 Cast, 10 recharge
Swarm: 10 E, 3 Cast, 3 recharge.

Trankle: Well of Suffering... Not a bad idea, not bad at all. However, precisely for the reasons you mentioned, I (personally) don't use the skill. For my first corpse, I like to Animate. For non-fleshy enemies, I like to slot in Deathly Swarm instead. It moves, there's no chance it can get confused with Well of Blood, and it doesn't use up a corpse. Suffering is a 'lonely' skill, as none of the other skills in your slot interact with it, with the exception of Animate, if the mobs stay within it's radius. However, since it works for you, and it takes up one of the 'optional slots' in the build, I congratulate you on your creativity. *Goes to edit guide.*

trankle · Jul 03, 2006, 07:15 PM // 19:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bargamer

Trankle: Well of Suffering... Not a bad idea, not bad at all. However, precisely for the reasons you mentioned, I (personally) don't use the skill. For my first corpse, I like to Animate. For non-fleshy enemies, I like to slot in Deathly Swarm instead. It moves, there's no chance it can get confused with Well of Blood, and it doesn't use up a corpse. Suffering is a 'lonely' skill, as none of the other skills in your slot interact with it, with the exception of Animate, if the mobs stay within it's radius. However, since it works for you, and it takes up one of the 'optional slots' in the build, I congratulate you on your creativity. *Goes to edit guide.*

Actually, I bring Swarm as well...because I haven't gotten around to capping Golem yet.

The "bring your own corpse" aspect of Golem does sound nice, so when I cap that, I'll probably choose between RF and WoS for my "degen" slot, based on the area.

Eragon Dragonslayer · Jul 15, 2006, 07:39 AM // 07:39

great guide i love this guide very much =D

.neuronster. · Jul 16, 2006, 07:22 PM // 19:22

I love you, man. <3

Kyle · Jul 17, 2006, 02:39 AM // 02:39

Cant wait to try this.

And for targeting minions it could be very simple. If we hold ctrl we can see all enemies. If we hold alt we can see npcs and players. Why not make a key that lets you see only minions. How hard would that be. They could take the enemy or npc code and change the key and say minons. done deal.

Coloneh · Nov 14, 2006, 10:12 PM // 22:12

I have a build that builds on this with the nightfall skills.
It works quite a bit better.
http://gw.gamewikis.org/wiki/Rt/N_Sp...s_Gift_Minions
Try that

whobitz · Nov 14, 2006, 10:36 PM // 22:36

Hooray for ressurecting threads.

Anyway, Coloneh, now that NF is out, your version will probably be pretty much a standard minion bomber, maybe with a little tweaking. JB just synergizes so well with a build that focuses on killing minions. I do have one question since I haven't brought my MM to Elona yet...do Explosive Growth and boon trigger when a minion dies under JB and the jagged horror is made?

Dead_Metal_Zero · Nov 15, 2006, 05:23 AM // 05:23

Just so it's known, I tested to see if explosive growth triggers when a dying shambling spawns a jagged. It does, meaning each death nova'd shambling can explode for nearly 150 dmg and you're still left with a minion that can bleed out whats left of enemies health.

Also, boon of creation triggers when the jagged spawns too giving you soul-reaping-style energy gain.

Bargamer · Dec 24, 2006, 10:57 AM // 10:57

Poor me, I got absorbed into WoW. I'm going to resist the urge to compare and contrast that game with GW, but suffice it to say, they are quite different, but both awesome in their ways.

First things first, give yourselves a round of applause for contributing to the Three Million copies of GW sold. Secondly, I noticed that the September 14th update gave us a small slap on the wrist for Boon of Creation. We now ALMOST regain all our energy back.

Thirdly, and this is the part that I borrowed heavily from GuildWiki, (which I saw before I saw Coloneh's post/build) but I included here for the sake of completion: Nightfall gave us the Elite skill option of Jagged Bones instead of Flesh Golem. This means that when a minion goes boom, it triggers Explosive Growth/Boon of Creation again and the resultant Jagged Horror is itself a target for Jagged Bones. Furthermore, Jagged Bones doesn't need to be targetted, instead, it's auto-casted on the nearest minion without JB. This is doable even in levels that have few exploitable corpses. We have just achieved infinite combo status.

Small note: We do not recommend taking another Nightfall Enchantment "Spirit's Gift," as why would we ever want our minions to regain some small health? We want them to go boom. Sure, our OTHER party members will appreciate it, but eh, who cares about THEM? XD

Until I buy Nightfall for myself, I would appreciate it if you guys tested this out, as well as what happens if you aggressively use the Minion Cap that I mentioned in the last part of my guide. Good luck, Merry Christmas, Happy Holidays, and Happy New Years to all!

PS: Whobitz: Yes, it does. Go nuts.

Colon's Fury · Dec 25, 2006, 07:07 AM // 07:07

I've just started to bring my rit through nightfall, and have restarted using the minion bomber build (I stopped using it when I got deep into factions and when I was over in tyria). I totally forgot how much fun blowing up minions was! And I also considered using Jagged Bones (when I get it) instead of mister Golem, and knowing the fact that it retriggers boon and growth is good to know...the fact that it auto targets the nearest non-jagged'd minion is even better. I can pretty easily get death novas up on all my minions, but having to get another enchant up on all of them by clicking on each on would have been rough...especially because you wouldn't have been able to tell which had jagged on them if they all had nova. Can't wait to cap Jagged!

Bargamer · Dec 26, 2006, 04:19 AM // 04:19

I take it back: Spirit's Gift, Reclaim Essence, and Putrid Flesh are awesome together. Healing your own minions is beneficial when you've got a no-fail Big Red Button in Reclaim Essence, and with the new henchmen, making sure they stay un-diseased with Spirit's Gift is even better. I like the Reclaim Essence build better than the Jagged Horrors/SOC variant mostly because me and Signet of Creation never got along.

So here's what's gonna happen. For all you Factions Minion Bombers who are porting over to Nightfall, here's how it's gonna break down. Once you cap Reclaim Essence, use that build until you cap Jagged Bones. Unless you REALLY like Flesh Golem, and expect not to see any Enchantment-strippers or other Mesmers. For PVE, use my skill template with the single-swap of Golem for Jagged Bones. If you're in PVP, use Signet of Creation AND Jagged Bones. Everyone is happy.

But just to be fair, let's compare and contrast all of them. The real difference between them all is: What is the kill condition, when does the degen start, and where is your energy?

Factions
Original Build: Link on 1st page
You've got good AOE damage upon minion creation and destruction, disease-degen at the beginning and throughout the fight and poison-degen upon minion death, and steady melee damage with Bone Minions and Golem. At the next fight, you will have a minimum of two Bone minions, and a max of 7 plus Golem, or 8 Bone minions. With Taste of Death, you will never, EVER, die. Health gain from Boon is largely ignored in PVE, might save your life in PVP. Rare energy management issues. Minions die either through battle or TOD.

Signet of Creation Variant: http://gw.gamewikis.org/wiki/Build:R...osive_Creation
MASSIVE Nova AOE/Spike Damage, possibility of death because of no Taste of Death, and no Animates while Signet is active. Assuming you killed them all, Poison and Disease degen completely ignored, little steady melee damage. At the end of the fight, you have however many minions you Animated, and no Henchies. If you didn't kill them all, degen SHOULD kill them all while you frantically Animate. At end of fight, use Blood of the Master to keep your minions alive while you rez your Henchies and between battles. At next fight, you have all minions, all Hencies, and no-so-great health. Frequent energy management and dying issues. Minions die through SOC.

Nightfall

Pre-Reclaim/Jagged
This is what you have when you just ported over. Firstly, go to the skill trainers and get Spirit's Gift and Putrid Flesh. Your Elite is Flesh Golem.

Flesh Golem/Reclaim Essence
You'll have this build if you did Factions and capped Reclaim Essence. Swap out Taste of Death or Rotting Flesh for the Capture Signet. Enjoy it while you can.

Reclaim Essence Build: http://gw.gamewikis.org/wiki/Build:Rt/N_Reclaim_Essence
You've got good AOE damage upon minion creation and destruction, combined poison/disease degen on minion death via Reclaim and only Poison-degen if no Reclaim, and spotty melee damage with Bone Minions. At the next fight, you will have >2 minions AND all your henchmen. With Boon of Creation and Spirit's Gift, you have to be in the thick of combat to stay alive. Makes me nervous, it does. No Energy management issues, even with Enchantment-stripping or other Mesmer tricks. Minions MUST die through Reclaim or Putrid Flesh, and shouldn't at any other time. Lots of targeting skill needed. Optional slot should reflect the enviroment: Damage skill for easy areas, Taste of Death for difficult areas, Flesh of My Flesh for impossible areas. Unknown death/PVE/PVP stats.

Reclaim Essence/Jagged Bones
You'll have this build when you've successfully capped Jagged Bones. Swap out your rez for the Capture Signet. Enjoy it while you can.

Jagged Bones Build Reclaim build, swap out Reclaim for Jagged Bones.
You've got good AOE damage upon Bone Minion creation and GREAT on destruction(which is actually creation again), disease and poison degen upon minion death, and steady melee damage with Bone Minions at the beginning of the first fight, and steady melee damage/Bleeding degen with Jagged Horrors at the end. At the next fight, you will have your max of 8 Horrors AND Henchies. Boon and Spirit's Gift keeps you and them alive, especially with Jagged Bones spawning healing you. If any Henchies die, let your two monks take care of it. Bone Minions WITH JAGGED BONES die through Putrid Flesh, Jagged Horrors never actually die.

Jagged Bones/SOC Variant(PVP) Jagged Bones Build, swap Flesh of my Flesh for SOC.
MASSIVE Nova AOE/Spike Damage, possibility of dying because of no Taste of Death and no Animates while Signet is active. Assuming you killed them all, Poison degen completely ignored, little steady melee damage. At the end of the Signet, you have a possible 7 Jagged Horrors, and no Henchies. If you didn't kill them all, immediate Explosive Growth AOE and Poison degen SHOULD kill them all. If they're STILL not down, follow the usual Jagged Bones strategy of Jagged Bones-Nova-Putrid. If even THEN... You're probably facing a boss. At next fight, you have all minions. Frequent energy management issues. Bone Minions/Jagged Horrors die through SOC/Putrid Flesh.

Bargamer · Jan 08, 2007, 10:28 AM // 10:28

Bought Nightfall for myself the other day, and wow, Heroes pwn. Olias, especially. (Except when he ninjas one of my corpses.)

Ok, so one major disappointment was that I couldn't make a Rit for Nightfall, so boohoo, I ported my old one over. Since this IS our Factions char, there's no reason not to get the quest "Gain Zenmai" too. Both the quest to port over and get the Zenmai Hero can be obtained from Imperial Guardsman Linro in Kaineng Center, near the Bejunkan Pier portal. Zenmai is an lvl 15 Assassin, but a few runs through Vizunah Square will fix that. For those of you with Prophesies too, get Olias, a Necro. I made Olias into a traditional MM with Flesh Golem, Fiends, and Vamps. Because we're selfish, I also put Death Nova into his Slot 1. XD (The AI figures out how to use skills based on where they are on their skill bar, with Slot 1 used the most, and 8 the least.)

Starting out, you're gonna breeze through the early missions until you get to a dialogue where you have to choose between Sousuke the Fire Nuker and Jin the Ranger. I picked Sousuke, dropped his Air Magic, and made him into a Ele/Mes with some Glyphs. For my Heroes, I usually take some combination of: Dunkoro the Healer Monk, Tah the Prot Monk, Olias the MM, Koss the Warrior, and Sousuke the Nuker. For Henchies: Eve the Blood Ritual, Devona the Other Warrior, Cynn the More Nuking, Professor Gai the Spirit Rit, Sologon the Monk-Wannabe, and Gehraz the Dervish.

Sologon I use as a backup tank, and Gehraz should be a better Assassin, since his skills do more if I'm spreading lots of Conditions. Dropping Death Nova on him is also never a bad thing, since it's said that he tends to use Signet of Pious Light to remove it and self-heal. And well, anything that goes into melee with a Nova on them...

If you take a Monk Hero who's focused on Healing Prayers, give them Dwayna's Sorrow, for party heals every time an ally dies. Use it from the Hero Control Panel right before battle, after you've Nova-ed up. You can access the Hero Control Panel by clicking the button next to their name in your Party panel. Ranger spirits such as Winnowing, Predatory Season, and Quickening Zephyr, work well, Edge of Extinction does not. Paragon Shouts should also work well: Fall Back, Stand Your Ground, and Go For the Eyes!, among others.

When you accept rewards for a quest, make sure to swap out Heroes that are already lvl 20 for those that you haven't bothered to level up or haven't gotten a chance to level. No sense in wasting solid XP.

When you get to Venta Cemetery, your Allies include 8 Monks, so drop the Monk Heroes and load up on the AOE and damage. With Olias, both Nukers, both Warriors, and 8 Monks, I "Mastered" Venta all by myself.

So far I'm pretty darn happy with all the Heroes except for Zenmai and Olias. I don't know whether I just gave Zenmai the wrong build or what, but she keeps dying way too often. Olias, I need to bump down his Animates, as he keeps stealing my corpses. (I don't have the time to manage both mine and Olias's Animates in battle via the Skill screen.) Well, that's all for now. Next stop, Zhed the Horsey!

Bargamer · Jan 12, 2007, 10:23 PM // 22:23

http://gw.gamewikis.org/wiki/Build_t...eclaim_Essence

Coloneh, Professional Troll, has gone and declared war. Just because his crappy build got merged and deleted, he wants to take out the Reclaim Essence build as well. Since I'm intelligent enough to realize that we're never going to agree, I'm going to put the vote to the people. Everyone that has read/played this build, go over to the above link and vote either yay or nay for merging Reclaim Essence with Explosive Growth. Because I'm all for informed voting, go ahead and track how Coloneh keeps hopping back and forth between the Talk pages of Explosive Creation and Reclaim Essence.

I vote "no merge." Now I'm asking you guys to vote. On the same note, I don't want to hear about anyone harassing this guy online. Give trolls attention, and they still win. (FYI, Epinephrine is how you SHOULD vote, whether yay or nay. He raises a valid point. We can still disagree, but there's no need to disrespect.)

Epinephrine · Jan 13, 2007, 12:10 AM // 00:10

Many posters are voting to merge, I am one of them. Before the merge vote was even up people were saying to merge it. It's the same concept, just a variant.

I would encourage voting to merge, and keep wiki less cluttered - not only that, it makes a central repository for variants of the build - something that is beneficial for any Rit looking for Rit/N minion master information.

Keeping it separate opposes the point of the wiki - to serve as a resource. It is a better resource with these build ideas condensed into a *good* page on minion mastery as a ritualist than to have them distributed - presenting several variants together gives a new player a better idea of what can work, and access to more builds in case they prefer one to another. Glad you see that I wasn't antagonistic - I just feel that it belongs together.

Coloneh · Jan 13, 2007, 01:07 AM // 01:07

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bargamer

Coloneh, Professional Troll

yeah thanks. im glad i happened across this page. so you got tired of me being right and decided to come on a different site and flame me? impressive. *claps*
your ridiculous.

PS: just out of curiosity, how was the build i posted crappy since it was basically the same as the one you are trying so desperately to protect.

Bargamer · Jan 13, 2007, 08:46 AM // 08:46

Coloneh, buddy, I've been talking to people from your Alliance, they told me that you have trolling tendencies. Secondly, you keep asking again and again the same question, but somehow fail to acknowledge what people keep telling you, over and over. Your build got deleted because obviously it was a blatant ripoff, had unnecessary skills, was poorly written, and you pretty much folded when people started discussing the option of merging. Reclaim Essence was better written, and it dealt with the Energy Management issues that has started cropping up ever since Boon got the mini-nerf. Reclaim Essence is also un-affected by Enchantment Stripping, which is when you REALLY need it. Thirdly, Reclaim Essence and Jagged Bones are VERY DIFFERENT ELITES. Their foci are entirely different. Trying to compare the two is like comparing apples and oranges.

Finally, if one mild derogatory (in this case, descriptive) phrase is called "flaming," I'd hate to see how you react to some of the REALLY foul-mouthed people you can meet online. And for Microsoft Wordperfect's sake, get a spell/grammar -checker. Desperate? You're the one who's coming over to MY thread and trying to start something.

In fact, if everyone who saw my guide decided that merging was for the best, I'd accept it and move on. All it would trouble me is the removal/edit of another link, and I'd keep playing the way I want, at least until the next expansion comes out.

Epinephrine: See, that's what I'm talking about, right there. Why can't everyone post like you? (sigh) But back on subject: I've heard the argument before, but in order to include the Reclaim Essence build as a variant of the Explosive Creation build, as presented, you literally have to switch out four whole skills: Elite for Elite, Rotting Flesh for Putrid Flesh, BotM for Spirit's Gift, and SoC for the optional slot, which IMO is either Deathly Swarm or some other damage spell, Taste of Death for self-heals, Cap Sig, or Rez Sig. To me, four skills is the cut-off point.

Thus, I felt that skill switching suggestions and a link to the Reclaim Essence build was sufficient to keep things together, while establishing them as different builds. It's in the wrong section, but Azaya's vote in Reclaim's Rate-A-Build section was a first-hand account on how different they felt, as I explained briefly earlier. Reclaim gives you unshakable Energy stability while Jagged Bones gives you "infinite combo" status, at the risk of running out of Energy.

- Gobby - · Jan 14, 2007, 11:11 AM // 11:11

Well im gona do this build but..... but.......can u have 10 minions max? and would blood of the master and vertaris work well? with it? like a proper minions master...and as arkantos said Enchatment remover = owned....HELP ME!

Epinephrine · Jan 14, 2007, 04:25 PM // 16:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bargamer

I've heard the argument before, but in order to include the Reclaim Essence build as a variant of the Explosive Creation build, as presented, you literally have to switch out four whole skills: Elite for Elite, Rotting Flesh for Putrid Flesh, BotM for Spirit's Gift, and SoC for the optional slot, which IMO is either Deathly Swarm or some other damage spell, Taste of Death for self-heals, Cap Sig, or Rez Sig. To me, four skills is the cut-off point.

I don't draw lines in terms of amount of variation in skills, but rather in terms of information management.

Surely, you will admit that a full article on "Ritualist minion mastery", presenting the variants, the playstyles, and offering comparisons between them, including when one or another may be preferable is better than a few scattered build pages? I would have no problem keeping separate build pages for each one, consisting of a re-direct for example to the approriate section of a minion master guide, but really the subject is rich enough and well enough understood for a good guide, and that to me seems the ideal solution. A redirect to a section would suffice I think, presenting a way to locate it without searching for a guide, while directing players to a more complete resource.