Curse

Traps · Jun 15, 2005, 03:10 PM // 15:10

Build looks good Kurow.

i know much about rangers but im not so sure on how the warriros skills work.
if ur a ranger/warriro try to focous more on the ranger side of ur characratcer.
Put POINTS INTO EXPERTISE!!!! it lowers the mana cost of ranger AND warrior skills!

try to put alot of points into experetise and wilderness survival if ur looking for a close combat ranger.

Davin Kabak · Jun 15, 2005, 04:41 PM // 16:41

I play an Ascended R/W (since WPE), since before R/Ws were 'cool' or 'popular'. IN fact, we were shunned.

Glad to see everyone finally discovering this GREAT build!

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kurow

I was planning on making some sort of Bleeding/Poison build on my R/W, but it doesnt look like anyone uses both swords and bows... is this a bad idea then?

I have done this, and it can be quite effective, if pulled off properly. It is NOT easy, however. Generally speaking, you have four different sets of skills you can use, depending on the situation. Now you won't be changing your Attribute skills intensely unless you get lots of XP, so you need to choose what your strategy will be FIRST.

Generally, when I am not specializing in all-bow or all-sword, I will split the two about 60/40 %. 60 Sword, 40 bow.

You won't have high marksmanship, so bows really lose out on killing power, moreso than a sword does. What you'll want marksmanship for, is to make sure you dont miss your targets. This is the major fault of all-swordsmanship melee rangers. They lose all those great Bow skills, and the advantage of ranged combat.

The base strategy with a 60/40 character, is to use your bow to put conditions down on your intended target. Bleeding. Poison. Fire. Interrupt. Crippled. Etc. Since you can do this at range, you dont take damage while frustrating your enemy. Once your enemy is poisoned, bleeding, and crippled, he is at a SEVERE disadvantage, as he cannot retaliate. This also will usually draw that enemy to want to attack you, since you are the one causing them all this frustration. You then can CHOOSE when to engage him, when the conditions are most favorable to you. Make them chase you away from their group. If they go back to other targets, keep frustrating them. Eventually they'll break away. When they do, you then can pounce them with suprise melee damage by pinning them down, so they think you will run. Then, spring the trap, and pounce them with suprise melee damage.

Once you engage the target, you will need the extra boost in Swordsmanship, to put down killing power on the enemy. Since you will be trading blows, it is critical that you make him as weak as you can before you get into melee range. You will not be able to out-damage your opponent, usually, so you must kill them quickly. Keep the bleeding and poison going. With -7 Degeneration, if he is not being ganged by monks, it will negate any healing they may have for themselves. This tips the scales in your favor,

In this case, I suggest you put as many points as possible into Wilderness Survival, for the advantage it gives you in your healing skills. Troll Unguent and Healing Spring is a powerful combo, especially with lvl 12 Wilderness. Much more powerful than Heal Signet, etc. This will give you a huge advantage. When splitting 60/40, you will NOT be able to outdamage your opponent, so you must out-last them. That means lots and lots of healing for yourself. You won't have monk skills, and by this time you're probably 1 on 1 with your target, if you've manipulated them properly. Out of range of their monks, means out of range of yours too. This is where Rangers are deadly, because they have superior survivability. Don't waste time with evasion skills, they are too slow to recharge. Just out-heal your enemy. WIth maxed wilderness survival, you can potentially raise your own HP up to 3 times faster than the average warrior, and on a par with the best self-healing monk. all WHILE dealing damage and using skills while your heal-over-time skills take care of your HP.

I won't be more specific than this. I've already released enough secrets, but hopefully this gives you something to think about. Remember: your best ally is a good strategy. You are a jack of all trades. Use that flexibility to keep your opponent off-balance, and guessing about your next move. If you are not predictable, they won't be able to prepare themselves for your next move

Epinephrine · Jun 15, 2005, 05:32 PM // 17:32

Quote:

Originally Posted by Davin Kabak

Bunch of stuff...

Right. That looks really bad - "Out heal" as the way to winning? Do you play against people who allow you to get off the Troll's Unguent or Healing Spring? A 3 second activation and it isn't getting stopped?

Don't waste time with evasion? Implying that bleeding and poison and cripple will make a warrior helpless? I'm sorry, I don't buy it. He'll just cripple you right back, bleed you right back, and heal faster than you can with his healing abilities.

Explain more if you will, but otherwise I'd say if you are trying to "outlast" an enemy you'll be destroyed by any warrior with a disrupting skill, and trounced in the "stay alive" areas by their/Mo abilities. Frankly, your statement

Quote:

Originally Posted by Davin Kabak

What you'll want marksmanship for, is to make sure you dont miss your targets

pretty much convinces me that you know little about the game.

Davin Kabak · Jun 15, 2005, 06:28 PM // 18:28

I am speaking from personal experience, and I have extensive experience in this game.

As I stated, I've played this build probably longer than 95% of the people who have been playing R/W. (There may be a few players before me...but I doubt very many.)

The truth is, I did not say exactly HOW I do this. There's a few tricks I know that makes this quite viable, and I prefer to keep a few secrets and tricks to myself. As I stated above, this is DIFFICULT to do. I did not say it was easy, quite the opposite. It involves very precise timing to make it work, or you will indeed be destroyed.

And yes, Troll Unguent does have a drawback, as does Healing Spring. They ARE interruptable.

The point is that a skilled enough player can make it happen. The simple fact is, though, that I very rarely lose a 1 on 1 fight with a Warrior, using the build I described.

Do not discount the effect this strategy can have.

If you are as experienced in this game as you imply, you know that ANY strategy and ANY build in this game has some kind of counter that can render it completely ineffective. That isn't the point of these discussions. The question was whether or not such a build is effective, and I am answering that question.

"Yes it is."

That doesnt mean your opponent will KNOW how to counter your tactic, or even have the necessary skills equipped. Part of being a good Ranger, or player for that matter, is picking your targets wisely, and timing your attacks to make them most effective. Everyone knows this, and it is implied.

Epinephrine · Jun 15, 2005, 07:05 PM // 19:05

Quote:

Originally Posted by Davin Kabak

The truth is, I did not say exactly HOW I do this.

That kind of thing makes me suspicious, as I am sure you understand.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Davin Kabak

And yes, Troll Unguent does have a drawback, as does Healing Spring. They ARE interruptable.

Very much so - then again, I like interrupting folks, so I always have an interrupt on my bar if possible, whether it's a knockdown, a memser spell or a distracting shot.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Davin Kabak

If you are as experienced in this game as you imply, you know that ANY strategy and ANY build in this game has some kind of counter that can render it completely ineffective. That isn't the point of these discussions. The question was whether or not such a build is effective, and I am answering that question.

I don't see it as an answer really, beyond the opinion "Yes it is." You provide only vague assertions. I will agree that R/W can be played well - I had one myself, though I chose to go melee only as I deemed it too much of a hit on my effectiveness to include a bow. I will also agree that there are always counters to a build, and that it would be foolish to try to plan around all of them, but planning around staples of PvP makes sense - warriors should all carry a snare or speed buff and an interrrupt attack.

My real objection comes from the way you say your build succeeds, which sounds more like a description of how to fail. Choosing to bring both swordmanship and marksmanship along, advising that your goal is to outlast the opponent through slow healing skills, one of which is bound to an area, advising against stances for defense, suggesting that a warrior is helpless when at -7 degen and so on all seem like bad/misinformed ideas - the warriors I can think of don't really mind a bit of degeneration. I don't understand at all why you say that Marksmanship will keep you from missing; only one ranger attack that I can think of has a miss rate contingent on skill level, and it's based on expertise. Given that I disagree with most of the points raised, you either have a very interesting approach that would be valuable to share or have been lucky in your conflicts with a less optimal build/strategy. Since you stated that Marksmanship improves your chance to hit (a fallacy, to my knowledge), I assumed that you don't know what you are talking about. You may well have a good, successful build, but it goes against my instincts for a ranger.

Jun 15, 2005, 07:38 PM // 19:38

Well being that Marksmanship has no effect on bow accuracy I doubt he has any credible experience in the game.

And R/W is a horrible PvP build.

Davin Kabak · Jun 15, 2005, 07:54 PM // 19:54

Oddly enough, I have no trouble playing a R/W in PvP. Granted, I do not play balanced Sword/Bow in PvP very often, but when I do, I still don't have much of a problem.

Marksmanship by itself does not do much, when firing normal arrows, and in which case you'd be right, it makes no sense to use it. However, in my example, you would not be using normal arrows, but Skills based on Marksmanship, for a particular effect. Hunter Shot, for bleeding, for example. Penetrating Shot for armor penetration. Etc. These are skills that will work well in the stated example.

The fact that you write off the build, tells me you have no experience playing that build, or the build does not suit your style of play. In either case, you have no frame of reference to help this person with their inquiry.

I would love to hear why you think R/W is not a good PvP build. Please be very specific with your examples, and I will respond to them.

tmtracy · Jun 15, 2005, 08:39 PM // 20:39

I'm happy with the way my build is thus far...

I'm a level 20 R/Mo wielding a 15-28 Zealous Storm Bow of Fortitude.

Since I am not in front of the game at the moment, my information might be a little off, but I think neverything goes as follows:

Stats:
Expertise 10 + 1 + 3
Marks 10 + 3
Wilderness 8 +1
Beast 6 + 1

And I put extra points in Healing.... I still have apx 15 poitns left since I haven't done the extra 15 point quest as of now. I will be putting those in beast to boost up the tiger fury and put the extra in health. If something doesnt add up, sorry...heh, I'm doing this from memory.

My skills usually look like:

Kindle Arrows
Tiger Fury
Poison Arrow [e]
Hunter Shot
Penetrating Shot
Double Shot/Throw Dirt/Interupt Shot (not sure the exact name)
Interupt Shot/Throw Dirt/Healing Breeze
Double Shot/Interupt Shot/Rebirth

I change the last three depending on the situation. If there is a hench monk I usually take rebirth and breeze. Otherwise I usually let the monk heal me...Depending on the mission I might take rebirth, I usally do unless its a short/easy mission.
Seems to work nice so far. I might start using some traps more.

Traps · Jun 16, 2005, 12:21 AM // 00:21

my sugestion tmtracy with is R/Mo is..

-dump all healing points. add more to bMastery or Wilderness(depends on type of ranger)

i want to know what type of ranger is more affective in pvp a wilderness ranger or Bmastery?

and ur skills spread looks good.

Jun 16, 2005, 02:13 AM // 02:13

Quote:

Originally Posted by Davin Kabak

Oddly enough, I have no trouble playing a R/W in PvP. Granted, I do not play balanced Sword/Bow in PvP very often, but when I do, I still don't have much of a problem.

Doesn't matter. When you start beating good players with R/W builds and can actually put forth a good argument as to why it works then maybe it will look more credible.

Quote:

Marksmanship by itself does not do much, when firing normal arrows, and in which case you'd be right, it makes no sense to use it. However, in my example, you would not be using normal arrows, but Skills based on Marksmanship, for a particular effect. Hunter Shot, for bleeding, for example. Penetrating Shot for armor penetration. Etc. These are skills that will work well in the stated example.

All Marks does is increase the damage on these skills, not the accuracy. So you're still wrong. It does the same thing for normal arrows also.

Quote:

The fact that you write off the build, tells me you have no experience playing that build, or the build does not suit your style of play. In either case, you have no frame of reference to help this person with their inquiry.

Until you actually post some real evidence of the build doing well, or some numbers to back your stuff up it's all BS.

Quote:

I would love to hear why you think R/W is not a good PvP build. Please be very specific with your examples, and I will respond to them.

First and foremost what is the purpose for going R/W over W/x?

You're DPS is going to suffer hard. You dont have the Strength bonus, or the speed buff of Sprint which offers way more flexibility than the Ranger speed buffs with the exception of 1.

Secondly, you dont have the physical bonus to armor. You do get better elemental protection, which I guess is something of a plus.

You cant play around with attributes higher than 12. This goes back to the first point, and the fact that you must stretch a weapon mastery to 12 to leave yourself to 12/10/8 or 12/12/3 builds without runes. You dont hit as hard as a Warrior.

Finally, you're getting the benefits of Expertise for some of the Warrior skills which mostly cost-5 or 10 energy. What's the point of playing with Expertise for an adrenal based offense?

When you post some numbers, some proof, or can actually make a strong argument for the horrible R/W builds then maybe this topic wont be a joke.

Traps · Jun 16, 2005, 04:43 AM // 04:43

my curent pve build (r/mo)

barrage
penetrating shot
distracting shot
throw dirt
lightining reflexes
troll urgent
barbed trap
rebirth

marksmenship-12(face and rune)
expersise-11 (one rune)
wilderness-13(3 runes)

build great, its been working for me.

tmtracy · Jun 16, 2005, 09:51 AM // 09:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by Traps

my sugestion tmtracy with is R/Mo is..

-dump all healing points. add more to bMastery or Wilderness(depends on type of ranger)

i want to know what type of ranger is more affective in pvp a wilderness ranger or Bmastery?

and ur skills spread looks good.

I just use the remaining points...so its like two... lol, they need to go somewhere. =p I will have beast up to 9 after my next at point quest...but for now its at 7.

Epinephrine · Jun 16, 2005, 01:49 PM // 13:49

Quote:

Originally Posted by Blackace

... When you start beating good players with R/W builds and can actually put forth a good argument as to why it works then maybe it will look more credible....

What he said. Anyone can succeed vs lousy foes, that's the joy of skill based systems - if your foes are bad enough you can make any build work.

Blackace has highlit the advantages an R/W might have: Expertise to lower costs, but most warrior builds use adrenaline, so you need to build around energy use; elemental damage armour, which can be handy, if you build around it/hit the right enemies, bigger energy pool (but again, only useful if you are using energy a lot).

If you aren't using expertise you are wasting a ranger's most valuable attribute, and most of the point of being a ranger. You already mentioned using Wilderness Survival and Marksmanship, and since you said swordsmanship as well that's 4 attributes so far, not looking good as I'd guess you want at least 9 expertise after runes, so an 8 there probably, you said to max the wilderness, so you have 12 there, that leaves an 8 and a 7 or so for your sword and bow. Doesn't sound strong enough for PvP to me.

piercehead · Jun 16, 2005, 07:48 PM // 19:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by Traps

marksmenship-12(face and rune)
expersise-11 (one rune)
wilderness-13(3 runes)

Sorry to be picky, for WS 13(3 runes) do you mean you're using a superior WS rune?

Corwin · Jun 16, 2005, 07:53 PM // 19:53

In my experience, R/W is mostly good for PvE. You're pretty self-sufficient, although you don't even need the warrior secondary for that, honestly.

The only warrior skill I have on my skill bar right now is Frenzy - and that's only useful because I don't have Tiger's Fury yet. Even then, I can only use Frenzy when I'm not directly under attack.

Really, the only reason I'm still running this character is because I'm having fun soloing PvE. It was my first character, created before I knew what I was doing, and I'm sentimentally attached to him

My original idea was to fight from range, but be able to fight in melee when the baddies came to me, but it doesn't really work out that way. Currently, I load up on bow skills and stay as far from melee as I can.

I don't think I'd try PvP with this character - the only thing going for you would be that you'd get ignored, mostly, but you really wouldn't be helping your team much either (except as a distraction).

Davin Kabak · Jun 16, 2005, 08:09 PM // 20:09

I'll just throw my build on here, and you can mull it over a while.
Yes, it has Runes, Good weapons, Good armor, etc. I dont use PvP prebuilds.

Mind you, this build changes at least every day, to fit the particular situation. This is just a snapshot of a 'normal state'.

Marksmanship: 12 (10, +1 mask, +1 Rune)
Wilderness: 12 (11, +1 Rune)
Expertise: 8 (5, +1 pants, +2 Rune)
Misc. points go into Swordmanship first, then others as situation warrants.

Bow: Storm Bow (Max -2) +11%/Ench, Poisoner's String, Grip of Fortitude
Sword: Wingblade, (Max) +10%/HP>50%, Lengthen Bleeding, Pommel of Fortitude
Shield: Canthan Targe

Bow-only Skillset:
Poison Shot
Determined Shot (or Pin Down)
Hunter Shot
Penetrating Shot
Kindle Arrows
Healing Spring
Troll Unguent
Res Signet

Bow-weighted Balanced Skillset:
Determined Shot (or Pin Down)
Hunter Shot
Penetrating Shot
Apply Poison
Sever Artery
Final Thrust
Troll Unguent
Res Signet

Sword-weighted Balanced Skillset:
Hunter Shot
Penetrating Shot (Or Pin-Down)
Apply Poison
Sever Artery
Gash
Final Thrust
Troll Unguent
Res Signet (Or Pin-Down)

Sword-Heavy Skillset:
Pin-Down
Apply Poison
Seeking Blade
Sever Artery
Gash
Final Thrust
Troll Unguent
Res Signet (or Savage Slash)

I like to keep the skills simple. I prefer cheap, fast skills, over slow powerful skills. With proper timing and order of skill-usage, skills can be chained almost indefinitely, with only maybe 10-15 seconds of cooldown after a minute or two of heavy fighting.

I will not put actual damage amounts here, because they vary. The timing and picking of your targe is more critical to success or failure than whether damage is X points or Y points.

For killing warriors:
1) Prep Poison before engaging.
2) Open with Hunter's when closing distance. -3 Bleeding, -4 Poison. Pin down works well here as well.
3) Penetrating attack to hit for larger damage. By now, they are very close.
4) Determined or Hunter to put extra damage as they hit melee range and start attacking.
5a) If the target is still bleeding, hit with Bow skills until you are near 10% energy. The moment you are down to 10% energy, or the target stops bleeding, switch to Sword and go to 5b.
5b) Adrenaline is at Sever Artery levels or higher, hit with Sever Artery. Continuing their -7 Degen. Use Gash if you have it.
6) By now, they've hit you with Sever Artery. Around 75% health at this point, and dropping. Troll Unguent to get +6 Regen (+9-3)
7) While health is going up, switch to Bow. Energy has recharged near full. Hit with Penetrating, then Hunter, then Determined, then Penetrating again. 8 seconds' worth. Troll Unguent is now gone. Try to last long enough for them to use big hits on you, like Gash. Try to time your Penetrating to hit while they are using Heal Signet, as you deal DOUBLE damage.
8) Troll Unguent to keep up the Regen, Probably between +4 and +8, depending on your condition. If timed right, they've already used big hits, and you now are gaining health, while they are depleted.
9) Energy is recharging still, so hit with Penetrating for damage. Now reapply poison which is probably gone.
10) Troll is still active, Adrenaline is up to moderate to high level, and now you have poison. Hit with Sever Artery, then Gash (if equipped). Swap back to the bow, Hit with Penetrating, Hunter, Determined, and repeat. Piling up quick +dmg skills after applying -7 Degen is devastating. If you have done this right, by now, the enemy is depleted and will try to retreat.

If they do, you shoot them dead.

This DOES depend on whether or not they interrupt your Troll Unguent. If they do, best to use Pin-Down to retreat, and then heal. There is always the chance you can die in this situation.

As far as Balanced Sword/Bow attribute levels.... It CAN be done, but it is not so simple. You don't really have killing power outright (no balanced character of any kind will), so much as stopping power. You stop an enemy, and tie them into combat. Then you can use combined killing power of other teammates to bring them down.

Falconer · Jun 17, 2005, 01:10 AM // 01:10

I've been avoiding this thread... but it clearly demonstrates why I told some of the guru's why these class threads should be locked to certain posters so that they become a FAQ of sorts. Something where people could cut/paste tidbits out of other threads with gems in them rather than having to wade through 9 pages now of people arguing why their ideas work.

Davin, the problem with your build is it doesn't leverage ANY of the rangers strengths. It's not a strong build in the arena, the tombs, PvP, or even PvE. As you state yourself you are reliant on your teammates to augment your damage. But as a Ra/W your first focus is to be a primary damage dealer maybe... or to inflict conditions en masse, such as a trapper. Furthermore, these builds smack of mid-level arena as their lack of any helpfull elites really shows. You should cut your losses now and stop defending this, or create an independant thread, rather than adding more chaff to an already long thread with a lot of soso info.

Now my experience with Ra/W's.
The point of a Ra/W is that the class is what I like to term 'berserker' or 'swashbuckler'. (as in the old viking guys who'd go into battle raging and naked, or the mythical whirling dervish or Erol Flynn types who make decent tanks). Ranger armor isn't quite warrior armor but it's still pretty damned good (86 with a shield is on par with a hammer warrior). Also you traded physical armor for elemental armor, which is an arguable strength given the way that spike builds don't hesitate to target warriors with their 'weak' armor. But all in all.. in the current environment I think ranger vs. warrior armor isn't a clear win for either as best. And both are excellent picks.

Now for the real strength... your druids armor has larger reserves than a warrior primary. The real killer is you have 50% BETTER energy regen than a warrior primary. Then you've traded your strength AP and attack skills for expertise giving you a good 40 to 60% effective cost reduction on your already cheap warrior skills. If you follow this with a zealous axe or sword you become the original energizer bunny of melee combat. (literally... 13expertise, attack goes down 2 cost, +1 for the zealous... -1 net loss... which is easily offset by the natural energy regen). Properly done, no less than 75% of your melee attacks should be non-skill based attacks with a hefty +dam. With a few well picked adrenal skills to augment your energy attacks such as cleave, or finishing blow, or galrath slash... you can actually make MORE energy than you're spending! (energy denial builds worst nightmare)

The other advantage is in the battle of the attack speed buffs... tigers fury is the clear hands down winner... 7s at 4 beastmastery. Compare to flurry at 8s with it's reduced damage per swing, and to frenzy with it's take double damage when hit drawback.

To anyone playing the class... pick a single weapon and get good at it. Bows have nice range yes... but really closure times and rates in GW are such that you'll only get 2-4 shots off before things are in your face. It's not worth the loss of melee power if you're after melee range... similarly losing ranged power if that's your intended zone will hurt you even at point blank range.

For a ranged Ra/W... the only skills of note I've seen are some of the team tactics buffs such as watch yourself... (effective especially if your monks or other casters are near you... to give them those extra 20 points of armor). I've really seen VERY few reasons for a ranged bow ranger to take a warrior secondary as there's very little there to actually buff or which doesn't hinder you. The stances are largely inferior to the expertise or survival stances. It's mostly for the shouts.

Aranador · Jun 17, 2005, 02:24 AM // 02:24

I play Ranger Warrior.

I defeat warriors by killing them faster than they kill me. Alas I am only halfg way through the game, so when I come across a twinked out end game armour/weapon carrying warrior - it becomes dicey as to who will win.

Anyway - I win because every swing I make can be a special attack with lots of +damage. I can spam energy using attacks and adrenal skills adnausium. My DPS is much higher, and so I overwhelm them. My pet does a fair share of the work too

Its usually other rangers that give me the greatest trouble. And then necromancers. So I like to suddenly pounce on them and take off a ton of their HP and get them panicing and then dying. No - I cant solo whole teams of baddies, but I can put someone in a world of hurt.

I cant wait till I can get some of the skills from the later half of the game

Kishin · Jun 17, 2005, 04:56 AM // 04:56

I almost don't know where to begin.

You're running a shield without Tactics or Strength? How good of a shield is it?

Your Swordsmanship is algo going to be maxed out at 8, and I fail to see how your pants give +1 expertise without a rune unless I've missed some strange collector. Your Expertise is low, and your energy will suffer for it. You're running Determined Shot for damage for reasons I can't even fathom, and using Seeking Blade, whose only benefit comes from people dodging your attacks. You have no attack speed buff, which is ridiculous to leave out of a R/W build, especially since Tiger's Fury is amazing. You're trying in vain to use Troll unguent as a damage sponge instead, which it is terrible for, and in all likelihood if you're trading blows with a Warrior, he can just Savage Slash/Disrupting Chop it before you ever get its miserable 3 second activation time off. (You should be protecting yourself with something like Whirling Defense or Throw Dirt) You're not exploiting any good elites from either of your professions, and overall your build is disorganized and unfocused. You're splitting attention between two styles of combat, and you're not outputting any significant damage whatsoever. Most likely you will be ignored in any serious pvp battle and be killed last, or, if you try to go head up with a halfway decent warrior in something like random arena, you will be pummeled mercilessly. We won't even get into how condition removal can mess with your degen plans, although Apply Poison makes for nearly a constant reset of the poison (Then again, so does Poison Arrow effectively), a monk can spam Mend Ailment/Condition and will not only halt your poison, but heal who you're poisoning, basically cutting the only offensive leg your build has to stand on right out from under you.

As far as advice goes, I think Falconer covered it pretty nicely. Pick a weapon focus (preferably melee), rely on good Expertise to fuel spammable energy based skills, buff your attack speed with Tiger's Fury/Frenzy, and so on.

And for god's sake, get rid of Troll Unguent. People need to stop clinging to their self heals and learn that a Monk can keep you alive way better than you can ever hope to keep yourself alive.

Traps · Jun 17, 2005, 05:21 AM // 05:21

Quote:

Originally Posted by piercehead

Sorry to be picky, for WS 13(3 runes) do you mean you're using a superior WS rune?

im poor at the moment so its all minors