Curse

- Tain - · Mar 14, 2008, 01:34 AM // 01:34

Quote:

Originally Posted by tyla salanari

Nope.
The higher your Expertise, the more useless.

And with a decent attribute point investment in Expertise, you shouldn't be needing any more energy or energy management at all.

^ I'm with this. If you're running high enough expertise to make an expertise elite worthwhile, then you have high enough expertise not to need an e-management elite. Also, I don't like disabling non-attack skills in this case; Blind would ruin you and your M-Touch would be disabled.

Mr Pvper · Mar 14, 2008, 02:24 AM // 02:24

archers signet itself is really unreliabe, any skill thats unreliable isnt even worth going on my skillbar>_>. If u really wanted real energy management, id suggest Prepared shot. U dont want archers signet to control how u atk, but instead u want ur own skills to control how u atk(aka any interupt such as concussion shot is unreliable if it needs a prepartion.... and also the fact ur damage is really limited means u wont be doing much). Why bother with this skill as expertise already itself greatly reduces ur energy cost in atks, the benefits u gain r pathetic for an elite>_>

SnipiousMax · Mar 14, 2008, 03:30 AM // 03:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by tyla salanari

And with a decent attribute point investment in Expertise, you shouldn't be needing any more energy or energy management at all.

AS isn't gonna be worth much effort in the long run, but I still think that prepared shot is worth it's weight. And expertise isn't a fix all, there are still worthwhile skills putting on a ranger that aren't affected by expertise.

Quote:

When you say stats, your referring to Attribute Points? Maybe I did it wrong, but my stats were pretty similar to other builds I use. High-ish Marksmenship and Expertise, and the rest in Wilderness.

Attributes, yes, but not just them. A good indicator of the strength of an elite, is the difficulty in designing a build around it. Elites like Magebane Strike, Cripshot, Broad Head Arrow and Burning Arrow are very easy to put into a build without tying up a huge number of slots better left for utility. Archer's Signet by itself does nothing, and it's only as effective as the number of skills that benefit from it. As Amy said, it's pretty much hamstringed by it's duration. Lastly, once you've started using skills for free, where is that energy going to go? What are you going to use it for? So it becomes a balancing act, trying to spec your attributes so that you get the most out of AS, putting in a number of skills that will actually make it useful, AND trying to come up with something else to do to make use of the saved energy. In the end, you'll find that you are easily just as effective (if not more) by using a simplier elite and an adaptable bar.

Flem · Mar 14, 2008, 01:05 PM // 13:05

Quote:

Originally Posted by - Tain -

^ I'm with this. If you're running high enough expertise to make an expertise elite worthwhile, then you have high enough expertise not to need an e-management elite. Also, I don't like disabling non-attack skills in this case; Blind would ruin you and your M-Touch would be disabled.

Blind renders all melee useless. I can't imagine why I would spec into another class when I could just use Antidote Signet for no additional points. But, as it turns out, I have hardly ever been blinded so far. I'm a pretty decent distance away from battle, and most of everyones attention is focused on the monk, nukers, or close combatants. The problem is small enough that I can just rely on a monk to fix it if the need arises.

Now, if I ever try this in organized play, then I might try throwing that in there to try it out though.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mr Pvper

archers signet itself is really unreliabe, any skill thats unreliable isnt even worth going on my skillbar>_>. If u really wanted real energy management, id suggest Prepared shot. U dont want archers signet to control how u atk, but instead u want ur own skills to control how u atk(aka any interupt such as concussion shot is unreliable if it needs a prepartion.... and also the fact ur damage is really limited means u wont be doing much). Why bother with this skill as expertise already itself greatly reduces ur energy cost in atks, the benefits u gain r pathetic for an elite>_>

I dont really see how it is unreliable at all. It has a cooldown, if that's what you mean, but practically all skills do.

Yes, I know Prepared Shot is a good skill, but I specifically asked to not tell me what elites you like better. I don't care that you think that skill is LEET. I am just curious on how to best optimize the use of this elite.

Also, Concussion Shot is a great skill, imo. The only downside of the skill is the obvious huge energy cost. With the signet, you can pop it mid fight when your energy is gone from plastering several enemies and get 6 free shots while your energy builds up. It's bascially a way to stay in battle with a large amount of energy for the whole fight.

Quote:

Originally Posted by SnipiousMax

Attributes, yes, but not just them. A good indicator of the strength of an elite, is the difficulty in designing a build around it. Elites like Magebane Strike, Cripshot, Broad Head Arrow and Burning Arrow are very easy to put into a build without tying up a huge number of slots better left for utility. Archer's Signet by itself does nothing, and it's only as effective as the number of skills that benefit from it. As Amy said, it's pretty much hamstringed by it's duration. Lastly, once you've started using skills for free, where is that energy going to go? What are you going to use it for? So it becomes a balancing act, trying to spec your attributes so that you get the most out of AS, putting in a number of skills that will actually make it useful, AND trying to come up with something else to do to make use of the saved energy. In the end, you'll find that you are easily just as effective (if not more) by using a simplier elite and an adaptable bar.

This is true. That's really the main that I'm trying to find out: What skills could I bring to utilize the extremely good energy management that AS provides.

So far I've just been using it to string battles together and be able to fight continuously for a long time with no down time. I could lose some of that longevity if their are some great skills to be more effective at killing or interupting.

MasterSasori · Mar 16, 2008, 10:28 PM // 22:28

[skill]archer's signet[/skill] is the only elite I can think of that becomes more useless the more att points you put into it.

Amy Awien · Mar 16, 2008, 11:10 PM // 23:10

Maybe not get all to strung up on which skills to use (high energy skills) when you've activated this.

In 30 seconds you get to spend 6 attacks, or 1 per 5 seconds on average, during that time you'd also regenerate you energy pool - and perhaps use a non-attack skill - that you can use in the 15 seconds it takes for the signet to complete it's recharge.

If you fire, for instance, 3 PA's, two Pin Downs and a Concussion this signet would save 3x4+2x7+11=37 energy. That's reasonable energy-management for the 45 seconds recharge. Prepared Shot nets around 36 energy in that time frame (6 seconds recharge + attack time), maybe a bit more if you fire it on recharge.

Marverick · Mar 17, 2008, 12:50 AM // 00:50

Prepared Shot gives you energy when you need it. Archer's Signet gives you one burst of energy and then nothing until it recharges.

Also, 3-second cast is just begging for an interrupt.

Flem · Mar 17, 2008, 01:31 PM // 13:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by Marverick

Prepared Shot gives you energy when you need it. Archer's Signet gives you one burst of energy and then nothing until it recharges.

Also, 3-second cast is just begging for an interrupt.

Actually the way Archers Signet works, if done right, is to make sure you always have energy. When I use it I almost never run out of energy unless I've been in several back to back battles with no downtime. In that case, any profession and any built, except maybe necro with high SR, would be low on energy also.

The cast is actually 2-second. Which, yes it's not fast but, I think I've been interupted once while trying to use it. Rangers never focus on me, they are always on casters, same with Mesmers.

Mr Pvper · Mar 21, 2008, 01:57 AM // 01:57

Quote:

Originally Posted by Flem

Actually the way Archers Signet works, if done right, is to make sure you always have energy. .

imo, archers signet has no room for error as opposed to prepared shot. U dont know what ur enemy will do to u, so its always nice to have builds have can counter basically anything rather than being limited to only certain things.

MasterSasori · Mar 21, 2008, 02:49 AM // 02:49

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mr Pvper

imo, archers signet has no room for error as opposed to prepared shot. U dont know what ur enemy will do to u, so its always nice to have builds have can counter basically anything rather than being limited to only certain things.

I think that simply going for efficiency at your job would probably be better than looking for counters. But yeah Pshot>>>>Asig.

Kaida the Heartless · Mar 21, 2008, 08:37 AM // 08:37

I run Concussion Shot on my low-end pvp (key words, obviously) Cripshot bar in place of Savage Shot. Many here already know that Cripshot is already energy intensive. If ya use your head, you don't need any skills to manage your energy for you, expertise does it just fine.

Tyla · Mar 21, 2008, 01:14 PM // 13:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by Flem

When I use it I almost never run out of energy unless I've been in several back to back battles with no downtime.

You really shouldn't be running out of energy on a Ranger, Expertise = you're swimming in it.

Quote:

The cast is actually 2-second. Which, yes it's not fast but, I think I've been interupted once while trying to use it. Rangers never focus on me, they are always on casters, same with Mesmers.

It's mainly because it's none of their concern -- nobody would want to hit that elite, and besides, D-Shotting Apply Poison shuts down their pressure and cover condition.

But in PvE, Rangers should never get targetted until a partywipe occurs, or they take aggro.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kaida the Heartless

Many here already know that Cripshot is already energy intensive.

Not really, at 14 Expertise it's 4 energy. (I always run 14 Expertise, 10 Marksmanship, 10 Wilderness Survival.)

MasterSasori · Mar 21, 2008, 04:20 PM // 16:20

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kaida the Heartless

I run Concussion Shot on my low-end pvp (key words, obviously) Cripshot bar in place of Savage Shot. Many here already know that Cripshot is already energy intensive. If ya use your head, you don't need any skills to manage your energy for you, expertise does it just fine.

Concussion shot will drain the hell out of you unless you're running Prepared shot. Archer's signet is just too conditional.

Splitisoda · Mar 21, 2008, 04:25 PM // 16:25

[skill]Archer's Signet[/skill] + [skill]Concussion Shot[/skill]

Would probably be able to keep dazed on a few casters, so if your on a team you can get like 2 wars to cover 2 casters, and the ranger covers another.

Hugh Manatee · Mar 27, 2008, 02:33 AM // 02:33

Turn on QZ, give your monks signets(rejuvenation, devotion), take a paragon with the 'lyric' shouts and it's own healing signets, and you have a healing force that works under the increased energy cost and damage that can spike through it for free while their casters and healers energy is faltering. Your enemies won't be prepared for it, you might take a HA, TA or HB team unawares.

Also there's places whre your energy costs are increased a lot, certain areas of the realm of torment, wherever the arms of insanity are, some dungeons with icy stalagmites.

Tyla · Mar 27, 2008, 02:37 AM // 02:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hugh Manatee

Turn on QZ, give your monks signets(rejuvenation, devotion), take a paragon with the 'lyric' shouts and it's own healing signets, and you have a healing force that works under the increased energy cost and damage that can spike through it for free while their casters and healers energy is faltering. Your enemies won't be prepared for it, you might take a HA, TA or HB team unawares.

Also there's places whre your energy costs are increased a lot, certain areas of the realm of torment, wherever the arms of insanity are, some dungeons with icy stalagmites.

They won't need to be prepared, kill QZ = gg. Plus you need a half decent spec in it.

And if you REALLY want pro energy management on a Ranger better than Expertise, with Expertise, Prepared Shot is /win.

Pyro maniac · Mar 27, 2008, 08:34 AM // 08:34

Quote:

Originally Posted by tyla salanari

Not really, at 14 Expertise it's 4 energy. (I always run 14 Expertise, 10 Marksmanship, 10 Wilderness Survival.)

It actually is a bit energy intensive. Or do you use your cs every 20 seconds or so ..

Tyla · Mar 27, 2008, 02:05 PM // 14:05

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pyro maniac

It actually is a bit energy intensive. Or do you use your cs every 20 seconds or so ..

No, I use it when needed. How in the world can you have major energy problems with a 4E skill, when the regen usually fixes it out?
I always run that bar in lesser PvP like AB, and NEVER run into energy problems.
How much Expertise are you running...?

Pyro maniac · Mar 27, 2008, 02:16 PM // 14:16

Quote:

Originally Posted by tyla salanari

No, I use it when needed. How in the world can you have major energy problems with a 4E skill, when the regen usually fixes it out?
I always run that bar in lesser PvP like AB, and NEVER run into energy problems.
How much Expertise are you running...?

14 and pretty much use it on recharge since RC beats it. Of course in AB you don't it that much, no condition removal ftw.

Tyla · Mar 27, 2008, 02:46 PM // 14:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pyro maniac

14 and pretty much use it on recharge since RC beats it. Of course in AB you don't it that much, no condition removal ftw.

Lmao, and you're still running into energy problems?
Using it on recharge shouldn't really use all your energy up fast.
And playing GvG won't change Expertise > energy problems.
I fail to see you're having energy problems, still...