Curse

upier · Nov 28, 2008, 07:58 AM // 07:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by cataphract

PUGs say hi.

Meh.
I wouldn't say that D-Shot is godly because it evens the odds of bad teams.
Quite simply because one can do the same thing, without using a slot, by getting better or stop partying with bad players.

Quote:

Originally Posted by grim lavamancer joe

quarterbreaking is good. the ability for a person to do this and also anticipate when to do this is what seperates the average from the extrordinary. i also noticed that this discussion is only talking about the offensive purpose of distracting shot.

what about the DEFENSIVE purpose of distracting shot? in factions, nightfall, and gwen; bosses deal double damage. and even more so in HM. lets say your vanquishing the resplendant makuun and you run into Kormab, Burning Heart. Kormab has the ability to deal well over 200 damage to any target with a 5r spell. sure you may be able to daze him for about 50% of time, but during that other 50% hes butchering your monks (because honestly, the majority PvE monks are lazy and cant prot worth a penny). you know that kormab is going to cast mindburn on recharge, but even quarterbreaking your not going to get it all.
so is it better to disable it for 20 seconds and give your monks a little breathing room, or deal +20 damage. your call

Like I said, there definitely are situation where one might want to take it. I am not stating it's a shitty skill.
The issue is that when it comes to defense, these days you just get hit. SY!, TNTF!, PS, Aegis will provide pretty much all the defense you need for most of the game - so you might as fill the other slots with chop, chop, chop.
We are mostly dealing with primarily offensive builds (where pretty much everyone does damage) because the few skills that we do run for defense are so obscenely powerful that there is no need for more.

Orange Milk · Nov 28, 2008, 02:02 PM // 14:02

People use Flail because they don't know how to use Frenzy properly

People don't use DShot becasue they don't know how to interupt properly.

Upier you've stated several times that you think DShot is a great skill, so it's my guess that this tread was simply made for you to troll and get your post count up. Theres no point in argueing with trolls.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Upier
D-Shot seems to be to advanced for the simplicity that is PvE.

Call me when you are less simple and we will talk then.

FoxBat · Nov 28, 2008, 02:20 PM // 14:20

I hear Diversion is a "great" skill, too.

That's why you see it on so many PvE mesmer bars, rite?

The Meth · Nov 28, 2008, 02:41 PM // 14:41

Quote:

Originally Posted by Orange Milk

People don't use DShot becasue they don't know how to interupt properly.

Go ahead and try to interrupt in HM. Its very hard to interrupt even skills normally 1s because of the reduced casting time. With arrow flight time and the activation speed of distracting shot you might have a .1 second window to activate the skill. That effectively cuts the number of skills even the best ranger can reliably interrupt by something like 80%. Much more reliable just to take SY and have permanent invincibility, no?

upier · Nov 28, 2008, 03:25 PM // 15:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by Orange Milk

Upier you've stated several times that you think DShot is a great skill, so it's my guess that this tread was simply made for you to troll and get your post count up. Theres no point in arguing with trolls.

Like I said, it's decent to great in some cases.
"Decent to great" doesn't scream as (pretty much) THE single best ranger skill for PvE - a view that is quite often sold here.
And this is what I am arguing, that D-Shot is replaceable for most of the game.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Orange Milk

Call me when you are less simple and we will talk then.

Since I am guessing that this isn't a simple flame, but rather an expression of your view, I presume my statement regarding the simplicity of PvE was incorrect?
So, where did I miss the complexity of PvE?

Tushi · Nov 28, 2008, 03:28 PM // 15:28

dshot is imba

MegaVolti · Nov 28, 2008, 04:01 PM // 16:01

It's awesome in PvP, guess the praise just got carried over to PvE

By the way there is an elite D-Shot. It's called Magebane Shot.
And it's popular in PvP, not in PvE. Duh.

grim lavamancer joe · Nov 29, 2008, 01:54 AM // 01:54

um, so im guessing that every single person is ignoring the fact that a GOOD RANGER should be able to predict spells, especially with monsters casting on recharge.

because good rangers know how to predict when a monster is going to cast...

Quote:

Originally Posted by MegaVolti

It's awesome in PvP, guess the praise just got carried over to PvE

because its so massively powerful, and ask any serious player about which is harder to interupt; everyone of them will say players.

illidan009 · Nov 29, 2008, 02:42 AM // 02:42

D shot in pve is situational imo, you can probably take Savage shot as your only intterupt if there's nothing worth the effort anyway...I still run both out of habit/laziness.

Improvavel · Nov 29, 2008, 04:45 AM // 04:45

If you want to interrupt an important skill which one would you prefer - D-shot or savage shot?

If you are getting a ranger build up do you go "Damage, damage... what to get what go get - HEY Savage shot for damage"?

FlamingMetroid · Nov 29, 2008, 04:47 AM // 04:47

because it is seriously the best skill ever

the savage nornbear · Nov 29, 2008, 04:49 AM // 04:49

Because when a mighty Elementalist is summoning a [[meteor] from heaven, and they see my [[distracting shot] coming towards them, they are like "Shit! I'm not gonna try that mess for 20 seconds. In short, my arrow prick > your fiery ball of death.

upier · Nov 29, 2008, 07:29 AM // 07:29

Quote:

Originally Posted by the savage nornbear

Because when a mighty Elementalist is summoning a [[meteor] from heaven, and they see my [[distracting shot] coming towards them, they are like "Shit! I'm not gonna try that mess for 20 seconds. In short, my arrow prick > your fiery ball of death.

Interrupting Meteor is a perfect example of Savage being superior.
By Distracting it - Meteor is out of the game for 50 secs. If the guy is able to cast it AGAIN, that means you are doing something seriously wrong because a guy in PvE is still alive after 50 secs.

Quote:

Originally Posted by FlamingMetroid

because it is seriously the best skill ever

Considering how something like PS and SY! break PvE, I'd say ... no.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Improvavel

If you want to interrupt an important skill which one would you prefer - D-shot or savage shot?

In theory - D-Shot.
In reality - very rarely D-Shot.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Improvavel

If you are getting a ranger build up do you go "Damage, damage... what to get what go get - HEY Savage shot for damage"?

Yes, if you are strictly after damage then adding any kind of interrupts (outside of Punishing of course) is going to bring the build down. Because in PvE, the right moment to use a skill is (pretty much) always now. So if you are sitting around waiting for the right moment and the right skill to use your super duper skill on - then the skill might not be so super duper after all.
(Yes, I am FULLY aware of how broken what I am saying is, but the simple fact that something like Assassin's Promise, which enables just that, is one of the best options for pretty much any caster class, should be a statement of how broken PvE is and why that works.)

Like I said, this is a thread about D-Shot's practical use in PvE and not a discussion about the concept of D-Shot. That's why I can't agree with a lot of things said here, which are correct on their own, but when applied to PvE, they just prove sub-par or wrong even.

MegaVolti · Nov 29, 2008, 01:27 PM // 13:27

Quote:

Originally Posted by grim lavamancer joe

um, so im guessing that every single person is ignoring the fact that a GOOD RANGER should be able to predict spells, especially with monsters casting on recharge.

because good rangers know how to predict when a monster is going to cast...

because its so massively powerful, and ask any serious player about which is harder to interupt; everyone of them will say players.

So that one monster is easier to interrupt then the player. Good for you.
Too bad that one monster dies within seconds anyway and the interrupt totally doesn't matter since your group as +80 armor from SY anyway.

Interrupts and skill disabling in PvE just isn't nearly as powerful as it is in PvP. Not saying that it is bad or useless, but a disabled skill hurts players in PvP a lot, it doesn't really hurt monsters in PvE.

And that's why Magebane is not used in PvE. And that's why D-Shot deserves the praise it gets for PvP - and not for PvE.

Tyla · Nov 29, 2008, 02:05 PM // 14:05

Depends where you're at. There's always going to be something that'll hurt beyond your SY, Prot Spirit and so on so you might as well. Besides, I find that my Ranger bar is barely ever cramped so you might as well.

kostolomac · Nov 29, 2008, 03:18 PM // 15:18

D-shot is the best non elite interrupt in the game , and better than many elite interrupts. Maybe you don't need something like this in PvE , but I'm always happy when someone pings their build and that skill is there. It's especially sweet against hard hitting bosses. But then again I don't use SY!.

MegaVolti · Nov 29, 2008, 04:10 PM // 16:10

But for those hard hitting bosses having a interrupt with 5s recharge is better with one that has 10s recharge.
Savage Shot is the skill of choice here. Or Savage + D-Shot.

What makes D-Shot awesome in PvP is the 20s additional cooldown. But those 20s are rarely ever important in PvE, making other interrupts (like Savage Shot) just as good or even better (due to faster cooldown).

Improvavel · Nov 29, 2008, 06:02 PM // 18:02

Quote:

Originally Posted by upier

Interrupting Meteor is a perfect example of Savage being superior.
By Distracting it - Meteor is out of the game for 50 secs. If the guy is able to cast it AGAIN, that means you are doing something seriously wrong because a guy in PvE is still alive after 50 secs.

Considering how something like PS and SY! break PvE, I'd say ... no.

In theory - D-Shot.
In reality - very rarely D-Shot.

Yes, if you are strictly after damage then adding any kind of interrupts (outside of Punishing of course) is going to bring the build down. Because in PvE, the right moment to use a skill is (pretty much) always now. So if you are sitting around waiting for the right moment and the right skill to use your super duper skill on - then the skill might not be so super duper after all.
(Yes, I am FULLY aware of how broken what I am saying is, but the simple fact that something like Assassin's Promise, which enables just that, is one of the best options for pretty much any caster class, should be a statement of how broken PvE is and why that works.)

Like I said, this is a thread about D-Shot's practical use in PvE and not a discussion about the concept of D-Shot. That's why I can't agree with a lot of things said here, which are correct on their own, but when applied to PvE, they just prove sub-par or wrong even.

I'm not saying otherwise. Rangers want some disruption. Considering PvE, I think none of them is superior. Sure Savage has faster recharge, but that doesn't mean much if the skill you interrupted is cast straight away (in HM that happens a lot with those evil purples

. I HATE PURPLES ON PHYSICALS ps.: I know they are hexes )

Generally the damage of my ranger comes from multiple arrows (either at the same target or different targets) + physical buffs (I love gdw+ebsoh+oop :P). I must confess I get confused by those threads looking for +damage skills for rangers.

Anyway...

upier · Nov 29, 2008, 06:51 PM // 18:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by MegaVolti

But for those hard hitting bosses having a interrupt with 5s recharge is better with one that has 10s recharge.
Savage Shot is the skill of choice here. Or Savage + D-Shot.

I'd say it depends on the baddie.
If, like previously stated, the super duper baddie is a trigger-happy-spammer of skills with short recharge, then D-Shot wins.
If on the other hand, the baddie is using multiple skills and not just spamming a selected few - then Savage will prolly end up superior because you'll manage to interrupt more stuff due to it's shorter recharge.

That is IF you'll even want to mess around with active interrupts.

Improvavel · Nov 29, 2008, 08:26 PM // 20:26

Quote:

Originally Posted by upier

I'd say it depends on the baddie.
If, like previously stated, the super duper baddie is a trigger-happy-spammer of skills with short recharge, then D-Shot wins.
If on the other hand, the baddie is using multiple skills and not just spamming a selected few - then Savage will prolly end up superior because you'll manage to interrupt more stuff due to it's shorter recharge.

That is IF you'll even want to mess around with active interrupts.

I would say savage shot is superior if you only bring one and there are a few guys casting a small number of threat spells, like aegis or meteor shower.

If it is a happy spammer, as you say, daze win.