Curse

wilson · Aug 07, 2009, 02:09 PM // 14:09

Quote:

Originally Posted by Redvex

Not to made it worth in HM.
And also command must queue not cancel.
An idea is to add shadowstep to pet. They are bodyblocked very easily

Didn't really understand that but ...
I didn't say the AI was perfect. It isn't. The response time should be much faster unarguably. But there's ways around.
You can cancel by making the pet /heel. I pretty much always go /attack -> /heel -> /attack etc.
There's nothing much you can do about the bodyblocking. Every player/hero/henchman can get bodyblocked as well. Again to get your pet out of the bodyblock, make it /heel. I agree though that pet AI should make it move around the object bodyblocking it. One is allowed to dream.

As for shadowsteps, there's already one: Strike as One {Elite}.

Quaker · Aug 07, 2009, 02:58 PM // 14:58

My Ranger always brought a pet before the update - they make great blockers and I just like to bring them. Now they're even better. I'm sure there will be a big flurry of pet activity for now, but it will die down after a while.

The really big thing in this update was the elimination of the need to bring Charm Animal - freeing up a skill slot.

Pets still have their biggest disadvantage - their master's self interrupt when they die. Just because a heal/prot Monk (or Rit) can now more easily bring a pet, it still doesn't mean they should.

Targren · Aug 07, 2009, 03:18 PM // 15:18

Quote:

Originally Posted by Redvex

An idea is to add shadowstep to pet. They are bodyblocked very easily

They have one (Strike as One). It's just buggy as hell.

Stupid skittle chicken will step to the pet, then run back to me before going back to the target.... What do you want, a red engineing cookie? What is this, Fable?

Ugh · Aug 07, 2009, 04:23 PM // 16:23

Quote:

I would have liked Pet Attacks to queue though , cancelling is a pain in the arse

Pet attacks should stack. I wanna use 7 attack skills and have my pet do them all at once. :P

Quote:

They have one (Strike as One). It's just buggy as hell.

Stupid skittle chicken will step to the pet, then run back to me before going back to the target.... What do you want, a red engineing cookie? What is this, Fable?

And, the pet freezes when you use the skill on an ally. :/

Targren · Aug 07, 2009, 04:31 PM // 16:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ugh

And, the pet freezes when you use the skill on an ally. :/

Or no target (which I presume defaults to yourself, since that's where the pet appears)... Which is always fun when you hit it just as the bugger dies.

Apparently, not getting to attack depresses the pet, and he will just sit in the one spot and sulk until you find him a new target to play with.

Necromas · Aug 07, 2009, 05:51 PM // 17:51

Is it really that hard to keep the pet window open and lock it on targets, and watch for the icons that show which attack skill is queued?

And about queuing multiple pet attacks...

They most likely can't let you queue up multiple multiple pet attacks in a row because of programming complications. The way the game works right now is that pet attacks go on cooldown the instant you hit the button, not when the pet actually uses the attack, this way pet attack skills won't get in the way of your own queued skills, but it lets you use one pet attack skill and have it start cooling down before the pet actually uses the skill.

If they let me queue multiple pet attacks before the pet used the first one then I could queue up a bunch of pet attacks (up to the limit where they go away if the pet can't use it after 10 seconds) and have all my pet attacks start cooling down before the pet actually uses them. This is already kind of cheap where you can do it with one skill at a time, no thanks to letting an entire attack chain cooldown early before it is actually used by the pet.

If they reduced the time limit that a pet attack can be sitting on the pet before it goes away if unused, low enough to mitigate this effect, then there would be complaints about pet skills getting wasted because some guy kited for 2 seconds and that delayed the pet attacking him long enough for the queued attack skill to go away.

If they made pet attack skills work like normal attack skills where you (not your pet) don't actually use the skill until an attack can actually be made (by the pet), then queued up pet attacks would get in the way of the players using their other skills because they can't just make a new queue system where a player can queue and activate pet attack skills completely separate from their other skills (see next paragraph).

If they tried to revamp the system entirely, fat chance, the programming complexities of changing something this deep in the code can be ridiculous if they didn't predict ahead of time when they were first writing the code that this particular aspect of the combat system should be easy to change. If it was a huge metagame crushing issue that they absolutely had to change they could probably eventually do it, but it's just not important enough to pour a ton of man hours into.

Fay Vert · Aug 07, 2009, 06:03 PM // 18:03

Those are all false scenarios, it doesn't work like that and nobody wants it to work like that. Players have a queue length of one (one skill activating and one in the queue), it doesn't sound unreasonable, or difficult, for pets to have a one skill queue too.

Is it really that hard to watch the tiny skill icon on the pet window?

HELL YES!! What kind of a sucky game do you want us to play?

Necromas · Aug 07, 2009, 06:06 PM // 18:06

I know nobody wants it to work like that, that's my point, within the realm of what is easy for them to change they can only make a system that is already kind of broken more broken. I know they probably wouldn't actually let you queue your whole pet attack chain but even letting 2 skills sit on the pet at a time doubles the amount of skills you can abuse the recharge thing on.

Targren · Aug 07, 2009, 06:46 PM // 18:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by Necromas

Is it really that hard to keep the pet window open and lock it on targets

If that wasn't subject to the same AI reaction lag, it might be a really LOUSY work-around. But it is, so it isn't.

H/H change to a called target really quickly, with those computer-reflexes of theirs. The pets change slower than a human who is half-asleep, stoned, and arguing politics on vent.

G4ymBoy · Aug 07, 2009, 10:23 PM // 22:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fay Vert

You should try it. Great in theory, but it sucks. Pets have now been hauled up from cataclysmically dreadful to mediocre with this update. They may see some use now,b ut they are no where near effective for a ranger in PvE.

And pet commands are fail

Fay you should know better than everyone that effective, efficient, and fun are very different things. splinter+mel assault is just fun. Especially when you have barrage with splinter from a hero, it is not efficient or super effective but it is fun.

Fay Vert · Aug 07, 2009, 11:26 PM // 23:26

That's the problem with pets, the attacks and control are so unresponsive that it isn't much fun

You're probably better off sticking with single target higher damage builds with some damage add skills.

G4ymBoy · Aug 07, 2009, 11:55 PM // 23:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fay Vert

That's the problem with pets, the attacks and control are so unresponsive that it isn't much fun

You're probably better off sticking with single target higher damage builds with some damage add skills.

I think fun is subjective. I do wish the pets were more responsive they would be much more fun but as they are i still have fun with a pet.

Sticking with high single target damage is still fun but since pve is pretty much c+space i love the charm+comfort fusion so if i want to just bring my pet for the hell of it i only use up one skill slot.

So now i can do high single target damage and have my pet(however useless it may be) and thats what i am really excited about in this update.

The real question is what are they gonna do with heal as one?

Fay Vert · Aug 08, 2009, 12:40 AM // 00:40

Now they have buffed a few BM skills, most of the others have crumbled to dust. Its a bit odd that they only changed a few of the skills.

G4ymBoy · Aug 08, 2009, 04:57 AM // 04:57

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fay Vert

Now they have buffed a few BM skills, most of the others have crumbled to dust. Its a bit odd that they only changed a few of the skills.

i agree, for example a useful interrupt with disrupting lunge would be nice just lower the recharge a bit. They could apply the charm animal effect to heal as one too.

JSpayde · Aug 09, 2009, 02:03 AM // 02:03

I've found a decent use to the pet update.

Running an AP caller build in the 4-man areas of Tyria for vanquishing. Since 4 slots are used for:

AP
YMLAD
Finish Him
Ebon Sin/PI/etc.

You really only get 3 slots for yourself, one of which is a res if you're worried about your heroes not resing. AP also requires you to have 12 points in Deadly Arts.

Anyways, for the last 2-3 slots I just bring Beast Mastery skills:

Comfort animal
Predatory Season (to slow those damn Grawl Ulodytes)
Call of Haste

For the most part I don't have time to manage other skills when I'm AP calling. I also use a staff to get enough energy for me to spam PvE skills. At the least my pet can do extra damage for me since I'm not using a bow. You can run max BM and Deadly Arts points and nothing else and you'll do decent damage.

Vazze · Aug 09, 2009, 02:13 AM // 02:13

ideally pets should have their own queue, but I agree that this is not gonna happen, whether or not it is a major programing challenge. I tried a R/Mo beastmaster (SoO GDW on pet) and had 92 DPS but it was somewhat annoying to time the pet attack skills.
The problem with AP calling and pet is that your pet is never gonna get into melee range before your shouts and your heroes execute that target.

JSpayde · Aug 09, 2009, 02:57 AM // 02:57

I'm not going to discredit Discord/Sabway builds in their damage, but I'm pretty sure they don't just make enemies disappear. The pet will get there, after all, minions have no problem getting into their melee range at all especially with mobs with more than one healer, so why should a pet have any problems?

The idea of using a pet for interruption is ridiculous - there is a reason d-shot, savage shot, punishing shot, hell even magebane shot exist.

This skill update added variety to the ranger. Pets actually have some use now. I'm not going to completely sack already working builds to use one but its nice to know there is that option - i.e. AP build when I'm only spamming PvE skills and not focusing on killing things with a useless bow (ditching the Marksmanship for BM), I'll let my pet auto attack.

Tenebrae · Aug 09, 2009, 11:11 AM // 11:11

Quote:

Originally Posted by JSpayde

I've found a decent use to the pet update.

Running an AP caller build in the 4-man areas of Tyria for vanquishing. Since 4 slots are used for:

AP
YMLAD
Finish Him
Ebon Sin/PI/etc.

You really only get 3 slots for yourself, one of which is a res if you're worried about your heroes not resing. AP also requires you to have 12 points in Deadly Arts.

Anyways, for the last 2-3 slots I just bring Beast Mastery skills:

Comfort animal
Predatory Season (to slow those damn Grawl Ulodytes)
Call of Haste

For the most part I don't have time to manage other skills when I'm AP calling. I also use a staff to get enough energy for me to spam PvE skills. At the least my pet can do extra damage for me since I'm not using a bow. You can run max BM and Deadly Arts points and nothing else and you'll do decent damage.

LoL dude , thats not a BM build , thats an standart AP caller bringing a pet .
Good luck ? your pet never gets to hit target because target dies too fast . Bad luck and your pet hits ? you are doing something wrong.

Fay Vert · Aug 09, 2009, 11:16 AM // 11:16

I think the BM buffs are only of use to people who brought a pet along anyhow. I don't think its going to do much for others. Pets are still horrible to use and poor for damage in PvE. So no, this has not added any variety to the ranger at all, its just illustrated how dreadful ANet have let the whole line become due to their PvP balance obcession against pets.

wilebill · Aug 09, 2009, 12:56 PM // 12:56

I have not had a chance to test a pet build in an elite area, so I don't know. Pet build noticeably better in general HM, and of course in Normal is outstanding.

Right after the patch I decided to run a quick test in the Wilderness of Bahdza.

Modified Sabway by kicking curses N/rit and adding Gwen with typical Hex Eater Insp/Dom interrupt build. Tweaked Olias MM to add new Masochism thus getting his Death Magic to 18 and Soul Reaping to 14 when Masochism is up. Just generic pet build, Otyugh's Cry and Call of Haste plus other goodies. That new slot really helps!

Eagerly rushed out, so eagerly that I forgot to select hard mode and forgot to add henchies too. Eh, so I thought I would see how far I got with a "gang of four." To my surprise, I took down the Wilderness easily.

Took down all four bosses. Moteh Thundershooter, Longneck, Kunan the Loudmouth, and Korrub Flame of Dreams. Korrub went down fast, but his djinn minions managed to kill the pet and Gwen before I could finish them all off. Only casualties of the outing. (no greens, and other drops sucked too as per usual)

Back in the Bastion came my Leroy Jenkins moment. In my haste I had forgot to change hats! Did all this with Beast Mastery of 10. Which told me something interesting anyway. With the new changes a lower Beast Mastery is effective in general PvE, which adds even more flexibility to the pet build.

So, for new Rangers leveling up, or old Rangers doing HM vanquishing, I think the pet is going to be freshly viable and useful in many areas; and most important, fun!