Curse

bennyandthejets · May 09, 2011, 08:46 AM // 08:46

Hello again,

I know I have been blowing up this forums the past few weeks with lots of questions but yall have been very resourceful & given some great feedback. I have been looking into ideal skill distribution for rangers & read alot of mixed information. From what I have read, rangers are regarded by many as a "red-headed stepchild" of the GW community so I am trying to min/max & build the best ranger I can to be the better for my teammates.

I am currently a 20 Ranger/Monk

I think my skill distribution is something like this (Not 100% accurate as I am not on my home computer)

5 pts in Healing prayers
8 pts in Beast Mastery
7 pts in Expertise
5 pts in Wilderness Lore (I think thats what its called)
10 pts in Marksmanship

Again this probably isn't 100% accurate but fairly close. Should I be investing more points in Markmanship above 10? Its getting very expensive to put points into it. Also, does marksmanship have any impact on my auto-attack dmg crits or just ability based attacks?

Thanks again rangers! Hope to cya in the wild!

Divine Ashes · May 09, 2011, 09:33 AM // 09:33

It would help if you posted the build you're currently using. In most all situations, your skill point allocation is going to be based off of the attributes you are using in your skills.

Right off the bat, though, your points are spread out among too many attributes. Ideally, you want to stick with 2 or 3 attributes to invest into to get max usefulness from the skills you're using. For example, if you were a barrage ranger, you'd want to invest a lot in Marksmanship (12+1 (minor rune)+ 1 (headpiece)). You could then split up the rest of your points into Expertise (9+1) and Wilderness Survival if you're using a skill like Troll's unguent or Natural Stride. If you don't find a need for Wilderness Survival, though, you can invest in an attribute from your secondary profession that compliments your build, like splinter weapon in the Ritualist's Channeling Magic line if you're a barrager.

So, get your build together, and make sure you're investing in as few attributes as possible, but so that your build is still effective at what you want to accomplish. Then you can properly allocate where you want the points to go.

Remember, you should almost never be using major or superior runes (except superior vigor). Stick to minor runes in every attribute you plan on using, but remember you can only use runes for your primary profession

X-Plosiv · May 09, 2011, 09:47 AM // 09:47

Like someone stated, post build, because your attributes points depends on the build.

From what I see, this:

5 pts in Healing prayers
8 pts in Beast Mastery
7 pts in Expertise
5 pts in Wilderness Lore (I think thats what its called)
10 pts in Marksmanship

Is not a very good balance of points.

I normally focus on 2-3 sides of skills, for example, my Expertise is usually 9, while Marksmanhsip is 12+ (depends what I use though, for example, if I use Barrage),

Or i make something around expertise/marsanship/Wilderness Survival if i use Apply poison or some preparation like that.

It would be good to say what is your HP and Energy, because sometimes you can lower a bit expertise if you have enough energy runes/insignias on yourself, but honestly i suggest more armor insignias than others, but oh well.

Hope that helped
P.S. Sorry for grammar, got exam in like 20 minutes and I'm here typing

wilebill · May 09, 2011, 12:10 PM // 12:10

As others have said, depends on build you are using. Me, as pure Ranger I am running either Beast Master or Marksman. In either case, Healing Prayers will get only left over points if that and a monk Rez will be the only monk skill on the bar. Put those points into Beast Mastery or Expertise.

Do you really need Wilderness? If not, pull the points and put them into either Beast Mastery or Expertise. Marksmanship is usable with 10 points if most of your skills are Beast Mastery. Spare points in Wilderness is another option if all you are using is Troll Unguent; and mostly you should be using TU to avoid getting taken down while pulling.

Beast Mastery works well for me in general explorable both normal and hard mode and in general questing, vanquishes and such. Two skills are really very basic with pets. Call of Haste and Otyugh's Cry. The Elite I use most often with a pet is Ferocious Strike; although Enraged Lunge is also good if energy is no problem. Of course, other elite options win the popularity contest depending on what role you are fulfilling.

Scavenger Strike can help with energy too but only if the target has a condition such as bleeding, poison, burning, or weakness.

Red-headed stepchild? Not IMHO!

X-Plosiv · May 09, 2011, 12:52 PM // 12:52

Me personally, don't use TU, since if you got heroes with healers, you don't really need TU, rather use something other that gives some blocking...i think there is 1 or 2 skills in Expertise.

Plus, Expertise may be the crucial thing for you.

http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Expertise

Skyy High · May 09, 2011, 01:27 PM // 13:27

Oh boy....
Spec into 4 attributes, maximum. 3 attributes would be much, much better. This is why you see so few rangers running pets, because they're just not worth giving up the attribute points in expertise and marksmanship (and skill slots). You can even get away with just running 12 in expertise and marksmanship, no wilderness survival at all. WS is really if you think you need a bit more defense/healing, or if you're using one of the preparations from that line.

So....yeah. Cut out extraneous attribute lines, you'll be much better for it. Just because you can bring spells from your secondary doesn't mean you should. Same for a pet. The only thing you want to bring from your monk secondary as a ranger primary is a hard res.

Amy Awien · May 09, 2011, 03:37 PM // 15:37

Healing prayers, Wilderness Survival and Beastmastery?

I don't know what you are using from Healing Prayers but there is a good chance you'll be able to replace it with something from Wilderness Survival or Beastmastery.

Now, healing ... in most groups you will not need a selfheal, that is for rangers who need to split of and be able to solo a bit (like in some forms of PvP). No healing might mean you don't need Wilderness Survival.

Falkin · May 09, 2011, 03:39 PM // 15:39

As other people already said, yeah it is hard to tell without your build. But the key point to remember is don't stretch yourself over to many attributes at a time

Chthon · May 09, 2011, 08:57 PM // 20:57

Quote:

Originally Posted by bennyandthejets

5 pts in Healing prayers
8 pts in Beast Mastery
7 pts in Expertise
5 pts in Wilderness Lore (I think thats what its called)
10 pts in Marksmanship

Alright.... this is a disaster.

Let's try to go back to first principles. GW has hundreds of skills. You're limited to a couple hundred by your class and secondary class. You're further limited by the fact that you only get 8 on your bar. And you're even further limited by the fact that skills are limited by resource costs (cast time and energy being the most relevant in this case). The sum effect of all these limitations is that you spend most of your time with very few skills active (and sometimes none at all). Therefore, it's important to get the most possible "bang for your buck" out of those few skills. That generally means cranking up the attributes associated with your key skills as high as you can, and refraining from using off-attribute skills as much as possible. (Exception for off-attribute skills that work regardless of rank, such as hex/condition removal that still remove stuff even at 0 rank, PvE skills, unlinked skills, etc.)

So, following from that, the most stable arrangement is 12/12 in one "active" skill line and you primary attribute. For example, a ton of good warrior builds are 12+1+1 in a weapon attribute and 12+1 strength. Ditto assassins, elementalists, and necromancers.

A three-way split is usually reserved for a situation where you absolutely positively need a rank-dependent benefit from a third line. Three-way splits are almost always 12/11/6, 12/10/8 or 12/9/9. The most common 3-way split is a caster class speccing Deadly Arts at 6 or 8 (or maybe 9) in order to get access to Assassin's Promise.

Four-way splits are almost unheard of. There simply aren't enough attribute points to do anything very well. When you find yourself considering a 4-way split, think very long and hard about whether you really need those skills from the 3rd and 4th attribute lines, and whether something in one of your main lines is a suitable substitute.

OK, so now, rangers specifically:

The simple two-way 12+1+1(or 3) marksmanship/12+1 expertise is a very common split.

Common three-way splits include marksmanship/expertise/channeling for Splinter Weapon (although it's advised to just bring a Rt in the party instead), marksmanship/expertise/beast mastery for Scavenger Strike, marksmanship/expertise/command for various paragon shouts, and beast mastery/expertise/marksmanship(or spear mastery or dagger mastery) for beastmaster builds (which are beloved, but not really advised). Wilderness Survival has almost no useful skills for general PvE, and the "useful" ones are incredibly niche ones.

Xenomortis · May 10, 2011, 12:29 AM // 00:29

If you use 10 energy skills frequently, you want 12+1+1 Expertise and simply 12+1/2/3 Marksmanship (however you split the runes, you want 14 Exp). 15e skills are typically limited to a one time preparation so hitting 15 expertise is unnecessary.
Wilderness Survival and Beast Mastery tend to have little worth taking so you seldom need to bother with them (unless you're after something quite specific), similarly for secondary professions (although these are probably more useful).

Low expertise is bad for a ranger - your sources of energy gain are few and typically terrible.

Amy Awien · May 10, 2011, 07:04 AM // 07:04

See also Attribute point spending and Expertise on the wiki.

**Marty Silverblade** · May 10, 2011, 07:48 AM // 07:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by Amy Awien

See also Attribute point spending and Expertise on the wiki.

@OP, just so you know, always avoid wiki's with 'wikia' in the url. They are old and not being used/updated anymore (except for random vandalism). The new non-official wiki is here (and the corresponding links: Expertise, Attribute point spending).

bennyandthejets · May 11, 2011, 08:11 AM // 08:11

Thanks everyone. Yall have helped out tremendously. Thanks again marty! Your awesome!