Curse

hirush · Nov 22, 2011, 06:18 AM // 06:18

Hi, I've had my ranger for close to 4 years and I have found new love for him recently. As the title suggested, it's beast master line. The following is the skills I have for dedicated beast master role:

Radiant insignia or any preferable insignia to suit your style. I chose radiant. Best health rune can afford. Any runes that fit on armor.

Marksmanship -3
Expertise - 12 + 2
Beast Mastery - 12 + 3 + 1

Strike as One
Feral Aggression
Call of protection
Otyugh's Cry
Great Dwarf Weapon
Predator's Pounce/Brutal Strike/Melandru's Assault
Scavenger Strike
Comfort Animal

The weapon to use in my case is either recurve bow or spear + shield combo with crippling mod and +5 energy, +30hp.
The health reduction from using 1 superior rune and 1 marjor rune may seem a lot on first glance, but being ranger (which should outrange any class already) and +30 elemental armor are enough for keeping me alive through many encounters.

My gripe with pet before was their slow reaction time to respond to master's command, and their horrible path finding travel time. But after trying out strike as one, I've found a great complimentary for my pet.

Enraged Lunge, Heal as One are great skills to pet. Their damage boost is certainly noticeable. But there are many times my pet just walk in the middle of crowded zone and struggling to get out of there to reach my target. What good the damage if you can't hit'em. There comes Strike as One. The benefit of strike as one is, well shadowstep your pet to immediate target within shout range and start whacking, on top of that, providing bleeding and crippling. I've used my pet to get initial aggro quite a few times and he can sustain a great amount of damage thanks to the buff to pet, call of protection and Otyugh's Cry. The damage of pet is also pretty good with Great Dawrf Weapon ( +dmg, chance to knockdown), Feral Aggression (+dmg and 33% faster attack speed). Did I say knockdown, yeah it's good

One of few drawback is limited to single target but powerful one, but overall it's a nice change and get away from the same arrow shooting, spear throwing, dagger wielding. The build has and is always used in HM. Though the pet does not always behave great (like idle 2,3 seconds before attacking sometimes), but it's not bothering me too much.

A small tip that I found out controlling pet, once initial target is set/attack by you, the pet will attempt to destroy/kill the target till dead. Pet will take a roughly 5 seconds to respond to say if you attack a different target when the initial target is not dead yet. To respond to the sudden change of target, it's good to open up pet command window (and keep it open), and keep clicking on attack mode a 2, 3 times then pet will turn around and acquire new target. A bit more work, but pretty rewarding to have a pet that will at least attack the target you want lol

lorazcyk · Nov 22, 2011, 07:23 PM // 19:23

Quote:

Eek, that's a lot of buffs for just a little critter.

Do mods on your weapon even work on pets?

I don't necessarily mind single-target, I do it all the time on my ele. But your pet does just cripple and bleeding, meh. In PvE, who cares, really? Cripple at least should be to all foes nearby, but even so, we've got better skills for that purpose. *shrug*
I admit having the pet shadow step makes beastmastery... slightly better. Technically pets should run much faster than us humans by default, it's a freaking beast after all. But I guess the next best thing is a shadowstep.

I'd rather bring my Ritualist, and cast GDW on you, not on your pet. I always bring it on my Ritualist and give it to warriors with aoe attacks, or ofcourse, barrage rangers.

Have you tried this build in Isle of the Nameless, without Heroes on your team, and without attacking with your weapon?
I'm curious how it does with Master of Damage and Master of Healing.

Anyway, I'll give this a try on my Ranger for a vanquish, later.

Olle · Nov 22, 2011, 07:58 PM // 19:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by lorazcyk

.

I'd rather bring my Ritualist, and cast GDW on you, not on your pet. I always bring it on my Ritualist and give it to warriors with aoe attacks, or ofcourse, barrage rangers.

What do you bring on your rit? GDW?
GDW Is an Pve only skill, heroes cant have it.

lorazcyk · Nov 22, 2011, 08:57 PM // 20:57

Yes, I bring GDW on my Rit to cast on other people. Spawning Power boosts duration.

Heroes? Who said anything about heroes?

ultimak719 · Nov 22, 2011, 09:44 PM // 21:44

It sounded a bit like you put it on their bars, not using it on them :P

hirush · Nov 22, 2011, 10:16 PM // 22:16

I wish the posts in this thread do not get side-tracked, and also try it before putting out comment technically/therotically etc. It's the functionality that makes Strike as One fun, not pure damage. And I have less frustration to deal with pet's bad path finding. I do have ritualist, but that's beside the point.

EDIT: I haven't measured if the crippling mod actually works (I should've tested out), but there's no other mod worthwhile to put on really.

lorazcyk · Nov 22, 2011, 10:20 PM // 22:20

I'm going to try it later tonight, I was just wondering about a few things. Like crippling/bleeding weapon mods affecting your pet skills.

hirush · Nov 22, 2011, 10:25 PM // 22:25

After a quick test, the crippling mod apply on the attack from you, unsure of bleeding mod though. Strike as One description says bleeding cause by pet, and crippling from attack from pet user.

Lanier · Nov 23, 2011, 12:22 AM // 00:22

If you're going to stack conditions, it might be nice to go /me and bring epidemic.

wilebill · Nov 23, 2011, 01:38 AM // 01:38

Always glad to see another BM. Just for reference, here's mine. White tiger, Isaiah's Balance Recurve, Koren's Hornbow, Forgotten Longbow.

OggUY17ijsSvl+gfG6G7G4G/G0GA replace Vampirism with whatever, but I maxed Sunspear just because of this spirit. Helps low bow damage and over a full combat healing is always weloome. Plus spirit helps with pulling sometimes. Asuran Scan so I hit something, goes well with Otyugh's cry. With this and my party do fairly well in HM. Took down Sparkfly Swamp and Alcazia Tangle and Arbor Bay with party health bars staying maxed except got Gwen spiked down once and pet died about 3 times. Just rez'd and rocked on.

Party, Livia healer rit, Olias MM with Flesh Golem and some wells, Gwen Panic Mesmer, Melonni Avatar of Melandru for condition removal. Norgu with Crippling Anguish and Clumsiness build with Fragility, Razah spamming protective spirits. All works together very well.

With Call of Haste, pet seems to be on target nearly all the time. No complaints.

chuckles79 · Nov 23, 2011, 01:40 AM // 01:40

I've played around with this in PvP, it's lots of fun because they don't expect it; but it lacks in spike power.

It's always fun to try something different though.

Chthon · Nov 23, 2011, 03:54 AM // 03:54

OK, I love pets, I really do, but that doesn't make beastmasters any good. Look, if your pet is your only weapon, then you've got a base attack speed that's significantly slower than a hammer, plus bad AI that results in a lot of time wasted dithering (so your effective attack speed is even lower), plus a complete lack of AoE/multi-hit skills. (Mel's Ass is broken; it doesn't "hit" the AoE targets, so the buffs don't get applied.) So all the buffs in the world (and you can get some pretty good buffs on a pet) mean very little since you have nothing to leverage them with.

Additionally, Strike as One is an awful skill. The intended effect is completely undermined by the pet AI on a pretty frequent basis. Even if it wasn't, the effect is still not really useful enough to justify elite status, especially with Enraged Lunge available.

If anyone cares, the three strongest arguments for a pet are:
1. At the cost of a single skillslot and a few attribute points, it's a cost-effective way to get more out of a team that's already using SoH/GDW/EBSoH.
2. Scavenger Strike.
3. Never Rampage Alone.
You might notice that all of these arguments support a pet added to another build rather than a beastmaster build.

Gladiator Steven · Nov 23, 2011, 04:48 AM // 04:48

Vital skills to consider for a beast mastery build:
1) Never Rampage Alone
2) Either: Enraged Lunge or Heal As One; no other -justifies the ranger better.
3) Scavengers Strike
4) Poisonous Bite

The reason not to bring Strike As One is that once the pet poofs over to the target, the pet seems to hault there for a second or three and only than starts to attack wasting valuable time.

hirush · Nov 23, 2011, 05:11 AM // 05:11

I know this is an attempt to renew beast master, but in my personal playing experience I still prefer strike as one over other elite pet skills. Getting initial aggro to pet instead of other party members is also a benefit to have. That being said, Heal as one and Enraged Lunge are great elite skills. I'm just sharing what I have found practical and fun to use.

There are times that pet does not attack immediately once shadowstepped, but it doesn't happen all that a lot to me, does it happen to you all the time? Pet AI gets confused if you try to switch target. I would say majority of time my pet just straight attack when he shadowstepped.

Also, in all faireness. I have just tested using both my hammer warrior with flail, and hero using hammer with primal rage with my pets attacking master. Pet with 33% attack speed boost probably falls behind 3 or 4 attacks in 1 minute. I wouldn't say that's significantly slower than hammer warrior. And if we look at more practical situation in HM, no melee stand in one place hitting a target forever. Snare, cripples happen around, and shadowstep makes pet less prone to that.
I wouldn't deny pet has no aoe or very minimal aoe, as I said back in my build it's focus on 1 target. This build is to provide practical and fun to use pet. It also requires more attention to pet's action. If beast mastery just let the pet takes its own chore, pet doesn't provide the best efficiency as it could. But to each it's own, I am not trying to prove this build is on top of others, just another way of playing beast master.

Amy Awien · Nov 23, 2011, 05:46 AM // 05:46

You have to be within their aggro range to cast Strike As One so they'll already be aware of you, and your heroes soon after. The pet controls offer range similar to a long bow, meaning your pet can be the target before they become aware of yoru team

Showtime · Nov 23, 2011, 05:49 AM // 05:49

Pets are still only good as tanks and the cost is too high imo. They are probably the one thing I can out damage with my bow.

Last time I tried them with my rojway group for fun and it worked, but everything does works. They do tie up things. They do die. ST rit gets taxed from the extra bodies sometimes. I lose too much putting ranger 2nds on heros to bring them and I don't think it will ever be balanced. So they can buff/op them, which I'd love, or leave em to be a curiosity and never a viable skill path.

hirush · Nov 23, 2011, 06:21 AM // 06:21

Has anyone tried strike as one yet? I take all the comment regarding outdmg a pet and anything, just try it if you don't like just get back to the builds used.
And strike as one is slightly outside of aggro bubble, that I can definitely say cause I can shadowstep my pet before my recurve bow can fire on a even ground. If you haven't tried and see it, just give it a shot and if that still don't get aggro for you, just switch build.

Lanier · Nov 23, 2011, 06:06 PM // 18:06

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chthon

OK, I love pets, I really do, but that doesn't make beastmasters any good. Look, if your pet is your only weapon, then you've got a base attack speed that's significantly slower than a hammer, plus bad AI that results in a lot of time wasted dithering (so your effective attack speed is even lower), plus a complete lack of AoE/multi-hit skills. (Mel's Ass is broken; it doesn't "hit" the AoE targets, so the buffs don't get applied.) So all the buffs in the world (and you can get some pretty good buffs on a pet) mean very little since you have nothing to leverage them with.

Additionally, Strike as One is an awful skill. The intended effect is completely undermined by the pet AI on a pretty frequent basis. Even if it wasn't, the effect is still not really useful enough to justify elite status, especially with Enraged Lunge available.

If anyone cares, the three strongest arguments for a pet are:
1. At the cost of a single skillslot and a few attribute points, it's a cost-effective way to get more out of a team that's already using SoH/GDW/EBSoH.
2. Scavenger Strike.
3. Never Rampage Alone.
You might notice that all of these arguments support a pet added to another build rather than a beastmaster build.

I think the OP is going for the fun aspect of strike as one over effectiveness. Also, pet AI isn't nearly as bad as people make it out to be. I use pets all the time because I can't stand imbagoning, and pets will only sometimes have a small delay before they start attacking. Often, this delay is nonexistant. The attack speed issue is resolved with NRA (which should be on any beastmaster bar).

@ OP: Some good points are made in this post. While beastmastering isn't bad at all (its probably one of the more underrated playstyles in the game), a beastmaster should always use their pet as a supplemental source of damage. In other words, don't depend entirely on your pet for damage. You should be attacking too, and NRA should be used as the IAS for yourself and your pet. While AoE damage is hardly necessary (in non-balling situations), volley might be your best choice of attack since you're not using a prep and many of the ranger attack skills suck. Sloth hunter's shot or savage shot could also be thrown on your bar.

hirush · Nov 23, 2011, 11:25 PM // 23:25

Thanks for everyone's input, and I understand the limit of what pet can do. But I've already run a different builds of beast master, including spear knuckle with pet. But at the end, I found I have more fun to run Strike as One at the moment. There's a line it's hybrid beastmaster and dedicated beastmatster, I just happen to be like playing full time beast master role. Just something to try, if it doesn't suit your style, simply don't run it.

Btw Lanier, thanks for the idea for epidemic. I should give it a try sometime just for fun of it lol

Pew · Nov 24, 2011, 09:48 PM // 21:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by hirush

Has anyone tried strike as one yet? I take all the comment regarding outdmg a pet and anything, just try it if you don't like just get back to the builds used.
And strike as one is slightly outside of aggro bubble, that I can definitely say cause I can shadowstep my pet before my recurve bow can fire on a even ground. If you haven't tried and see it, just give it a shot and if that still don't get aggro for you, just switch build.

Recurve Bow range is just less than agro range. And I find that the pet AI is too bad to deal with personally. The only thing I'd justify using it with would be Enraged as it's the only source of DW a ranger can get without resorting to PvE skills.