Curse

Ensign · May 25, 2007, 08:39 PM // 20:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mekkakat

to say that you need eles to lay down the AoE, which in your opinion is the main source of damage

No it isn't. Reading comprehension = win.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mekkakat

other than that paras really dont need anything AoE to make them even more overpowered lol.

They need something AoE to make Joe Nubsauce love them. That's all.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mekkakat

spears attack speed: 2.20 ATPS. other than that, i think they're fine as is, and they'll always be one of my first picks in PvP

You don't think that knocking a third off of their damage and adrenaline gain would make them bad? I do.

Peace,
-CxE

1ord i3eans · May 28, 2007, 10:53 PM // 22:53

I just want more skills! Like...

"Respect my Authorita!"
Leadership Elite Shout
For the next 3...5...6 seconds the first attack skill you or nearby party members use causes deep wound for 5...13...17 seconds, the second attack skill you or nearby party members use causes bleeding for 5...13...17 seconds, and the third attack skilll you or nearby party members use causes knockdown for 2 seconds.
Mana cost: 25
Recharge: 15 seconds

The max-one-echo ideas seem good, and maybe the one about Paragon shouts/chants can't affect other primary or secondary Paragons

Why do people play male paragons when they look so (I know this sounds immature) girly? I'd much rather admire the female body over male anyway =P

I need a leadership shield!!!

GloryFox · May 29, 2007, 01:46 AM // 01:46

One thing that would be nice for Paragons is an Offhand Shield for Leadership. In this way you can max your Leadership and Spear skills. I can think of many builds where this would buff the class in PvE by alot.

Speaking on the PvE side I’ve yet to see a paragon get the kind of hate the Mesmer get in PvE. Where is all the paragon hate most of you speak of?

art of war · May 31, 2007, 02:04 AM // 02:04

well i think they need to change some of teh elites around like the power is urs instead of making ur energy deplete how disabling shouts for like 10 secs. or something
Or put more anti shouts hexes like
Frozen vocal cords- shouts take 10 secs. to recharge and when they use adrenaline shouts they lose all adrenaline.
Piercing voice- each time enemy shout that is used does 20-33 dmg to all other enemies in a ear shot.
or just make screaming shot do the sugessted deaf condition.
or make a mezmer skill called
Arrogance- for 10 sec. shouts on that enemy end 15-20% faster and takes 10 dmg for each shout used on them

King's Spectre · May 31, 2007, 05:10 PM // 17:10

Thinking more about this.. is the high armor of the end-game critters part of the problem here? A huge chunk of a paragon's damage output is from the auto-attacks. Without the kind of spammable attacks a warrior has, a spearagon can feel pretty useless plinking away in the single/low double digits.

An unprotected PvP squishy, on the other hand, would tell you that spears are doing *plenty* of damage.

Reduce base armor to 65.
Add PvE SS skill: You gain 15 (5..15) armor and your spear attacks have 20% (10..20%) armor penetration.

Best for everyone if the nerf and the skill were rolled out at the same time.

Threll · Jun 01, 2007, 05:51 AM // 05:51

I use Leadership and Spear Mastery with my Paragon most of the time. I just use a statless +8 AL shield, like Hassin's Shell (but mine is a Shark Tooth Shield).

-Byron- · Jun 02, 2007, 11:45 PM // 23:45

The primary gripe I have with paragons in PVE is the highly conditional/marginalized nature of many of their skills.

Take Defensive Anthem, an elite, and compare it to aegis, a monk non-elite. Defensive Anthem has a 5 second shorter recharge time than aegis, although it has a shorter duration overall. However, Defensive anthem ENDS upon the player using an attack skill, while taking up that valuable elite slot. Its not surprising many shun the skill completely. Removing the need to refrain from using an attack skill and possibly cutting down the recharge time would make for a fair elite.

I think Spear Mastery is fair. Motivation is fine but could use some better elites. I believe its leadership and command that need serious tweaking, and hench where most of the PVP abuse stems from.

Through my personal PVE experiences, running a pure motivation/defensive paragon is very effective. I use (on myself or Morgahn):

8 Tactics
8+1 Command
7+1 Leadership
12 +1 +3 Motivation

1 - Signet of Synergy
2 - Watch Yourself!
3 - Song of restoration
4 - Ballad of restoration
5 - Aria of Restoration
6 - Stand your Ground!
7 - Shields up!
8 - Signet of Return

Along with a Hybrid or full protection monk (or two henchies if soloing), dying is very rare.

The worst thing that could happen would be for Arenanet to nerf them due to their PVP strengths without appeasing the PVE crowd. Sadly it seems a distinct possibility.

Skuld · Jun 03, 2007, 09:09 AM // 09:09

Defensive Anthem is unstrippable.

Invaluable for PvP.

-Byron- · Jun 03, 2007, 05:36 PM // 17:36

So precisely what paragon skills are complained about being overpowered in PVP?

clawofcrimson · Jun 03, 2007, 10:15 PM // 22:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by -Byron-

So precisely what paragon skills are complained about being overpowered in PVP?

these are Ensigns (original) suggested changes:

*Base Armor reduced to 70*
"Go for the Eyes!": 50...80% Critical Chance, 6A
"Stand Your Ground": 16 Armor
Defensive Anthem: 2c
Finale of Restoration: 20r
Purifying Finale: 20r

Mr_Cynical · Jun 04, 2007, 10:55 PM // 22:55

I like the idea of the 'deafness' condition - especially if it would convince Anet to un-nerf the Paragon for the vast majority of their customers (PvE players). On the other hand, we already HAVE several anti-shout counters, its just that people don't bother taking them. 'OMFG PARAGON IS OVERPOWERED!!!1!!one' says the Necro who didn't bother his ass to bring Well of Silence.

What the PvP players (the ones calling for yet another Para nerf at least) fail to understand is that ANY build is overpowered if your team is too lazy/stupid to plan for the possibility of its appearing, and bring the appropriate counter. If nobody has an enchantment removal or degen, for example, (quite possible in RA) then a 55 can cause a stalemate.

BradNess · Jun 05, 2007, 06:58 AM // 06:58

I say add in some PvE only skills to improve the Paragon class. PvP I'm fine with where that stands, heck ppl yell all the time at the Dervish/Ele's with Obsidian armor and how unstoppable they can be, why can't the Paragons be unstoppable in their own unique way?

Yeah if PvP groups have such disdain for the Group of Paragons coming at them, then maybe a lesson will be learned...bring skills to shut down a party of Paragons next time :P

Paragon's need Helmets!!