Curse

Tyla · Mar 22, 2008, 07:26 PM // 19:26

...I think I know...
Cracked Armour won't make a difference, and an IAS could = MORE adrenaline, MORE damage, and LESS "oshi a monster killed me".

That -20 Armour will NOT make a difference in a near-wipe situation anyway.
And besides, your Monks (Hero OR Hench) should have all the energy in the world if you're running an Imbagon...

Res Ipsi · Mar 22, 2008, 07:27 PM // 19:27

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fantus

You also could use three Monk Heroes and stuff mass condition removal on them so they get rid of Cracked Armor for you...

Seriously: In case you missed the point of a Survivor char: The point is not tossing one extra spear at your enemies every now and then, the point of a Survivor char is not dying...

I've seen you throw plenty of spears! Remember that all-para FoW trip we took? You were up in the front tossing spears like no one's business. Had to weld a leash on your armor ^^

Stormlord Alex · Mar 22, 2008, 07:31 PM // 19:31

*insert convenient LOLcat*

/thread

Res Ipsi · Mar 22, 2008, 07:55 PM // 19:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stormlord Alex

*insert convenient LOLcat*

/thread

Go play the game if you're bored.

Pyro maniac · Mar 22, 2008, 07:57 PM // 19:57

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fantus

You also could use three Monk Heroes and stuff mass condition removal on them so they get rid of Cracked Armor for you...

Seriously: In case you missed the point of a Survivor char: The point is not tossing one extra spear at your enemies every now and then, the point of a Survivor char is not dying...

dead enemies won't kill you tho

Fantus · Mar 22, 2008, 07:59 PM // 19:59

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pyro maniac

dead enemies won't kill you tho

Unfortunately their default state is "alive".

Shaz · Mar 22, 2008, 08:34 PM // 20:34

Quote:

Originally Posted by blue.rellik

[skill]Aggressive Refrain[/skill]

If anyone tells you not to use that then they are bad players. NEVER take that off your skill bar

lol, so true. I'd listen to this advice if I were you.

angmar_nite · Mar 22, 2008, 10:54 PM // 22:54

Quote:

Originally Posted by Res Ipsi

Go play the game if you're bored.

thou shalt not silence stormlord's lolcats.

FreakTheMad · Mar 23, 2008, 02:35 AM // 02:35

Well i can see the topic turn for the worst.

/sigh

blue.rellik · Mar 23, 2008, 05:08 AM // 05:08

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fantus

Unfortunately their default state is "alive".

Throwing lots of spears quickly at them will turn them off

Fantus · Mar 23, 2008, 09:28 AM // 09:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by FreakTheMad

Well i can see the topic turn for the worst.

The problem with the advice some people give here is that it violates some basic principles of playing a Survivor char. With a Survivor character you always want to have high armor and high health at all times. You might also try not to be the first one to run in and catch aggro. With the way the AI sometimes behaves, you even might not want to be the one having the highest damage output in the party in general.

Paragons make great Survivor chars because they

a) Have high armor
b) Are ranged/utility characters who can stay in the midline/backline of the party.
c) Have lots of skill to mitigate/reduce damage impact on your group

Whether or not AR is generally a good skill or not isn't the question here, the question here is what it's best to bring on a Survivor char to ensure success and lowering your armor does the opposite of that. In my humble opinion the best approach for a Survivor Paragon is to set up your build defensively. Your job in that picture is not to kill things but to keep pressure off your party and a Paragon can do that better than any other class in the game. The greatest skill to bring is TNTF, hands down, particularly since Elonian born chars get decent Sunspear rank very early in their life. For a low level Survivor Paragon with no Elite skill available I would recommend also bringing Stand Your Ground and interchange those two skills (SYG isn't available at skill trainers until Realm of Torment, but you can use a Cap Sig at the Para boss in Jahai Bluffs to get it early).
Assuming you play with heroes a lot (like most Survivors), take a Minion Master and bring Go for the Eyes (which is also good energy management for you). "They are on Fire" goes well with an SF ele and further reduces damage intake to your group. "Save Yourselves" is a good skill to bring to boost your party mates's AL but keep in mind it doesn't affect YOU (which is a little disadvantage since you're the one who doesn't want to die, but it still keeps pressure of your group as a whole). Also, obviously there is no point in using both Stand Your Ground and SY at the same time, since the maximum AL bonus is capped. Use them alternatively. SY is not that great if your Allegiance Rank is lower than 3, btw.

So, here goes. These skills will greatly help your party's survival capability at lower levels without actually lowering your own defenses. I used them on my Survivor Paragon for a long time, until I got enough caps etc. to make more powerful bars. TNTF is still in pretty much every bar I run.

Shaz · Mar 23, 2008, 09:40 AM // 09:40

Quote:

The problem with the advice some people give here is that it violates some basic principles of playing a Survivor char. With a Survivor character you always want to have high armor and high health at all times. You might also try not to be the first one to run in and catch aggro. With the way the AI sometimes behaves, you even might not want to be the one having the highest damage output in the party in general.

If you're not going to play as you normally would then you should just go HFFF or boxing for Survivor if you're so afraid of losing that title so much tbh.

Fantus · Mar 23, 2008, 10:03 AM // 10:03

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shaz

If you're not going to play as you normally would then you should just go HFFF or boxing for Survivor if you're so afraid of losing that title so much tbh.

Disregarding that flamebait comment about HFFF for a sec - The key to play a successful survivor is neither leeching your way to the title (XP Farming or getting runned through missions etc. is not survivoring at all...) NOR taking unnecessary risks. I would qualify intentionally lowering a Survivor char's AL to be an unnecessary risk and thus extremely bad advice. In a Survivor char's life, particularly if you play them normally, there will be situations where those 20 AL will make the difference between success and failure (and even if it's only because of "subtle" things like your trusted henchie monk using futile Condition Removal on you in the very moment he rather should heal the frontline). Why some people insist that running around with Perma-Cracked Armor on a Survivor char would be a good idea is beyond me, particularly since there are great skill options for a Paragon that will enhance your survival chances instead of lowering them.

blue.rellik · Mar 23, 2008, 10:09 AM // 10:09

Well that's the difference between you and me. I'm a good enough player that I use skills that lower my armour 99% of the time and I still win and kill things

I'm elitist

Shaz · Mar 23, 2008, 10:13 AM // 10:13

lol it wasnt flamebait, I don't see how it is. But I see no differences between a survivor who got it with HFFF/boxing or one who get it with overly defensive build or quit if they're about to die, etc. Except for the fact that the one HFFF/boxing will get it faster and safer. There more glory to the title when you play it as you normally would and get it, that's a true survivor. That said though, I don't really care how people get it, survivor title is survivor title to me.

Edit: lol <3 blue's posts

Fantus · Mar 23, 2008, 10:17 AM // 10:17

Quote:

Originally Posted by blue.rellik

I'm elitist

If you have something useful to add to this discussion, go ahead. If not, I would suggest go troll somewhere else.

blue.rellik · Mar 23, 2008, 10:18 AM // 10:18

Telling someone to use AR is the best advice for a paragon

Stormlord Alex · Mar 23, 2008, 10:20 AM // 10:20

this thread still needs moar LOLcats... =[

Fantus · Mar 23, 2008, 10:34 AM // 10:34

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shaz

lol it wasnt flamebait, I don't see how it is. But I see no differences between a survivor who got it with HFFF/boxing or one who get it with overly defensive build or quit if they're about to die, etc. Except for the fact that the one HFFF/boxing will get it faster and safer. There more glory to the title when you play it as you normally would and get it, that's a true survivor. That said though, I don't really care how people get it, survivor title is survivor title to me.

It's a matter of taste in the end whether go offensively or defensively. If you want to be a hardcore survivor, go make an Assassin and tank the Searing Flames boss while not wearing armor. The other extreme is HFFF where you can get a "Survivor" title without even fighting. I prefer the middle ground I guess. I have used AR on my Survivor Paragon a few times myself, although not while I was less experienced with it. It's ok to do if you know your Paragon AND how to play a Survivor AND if it fits into the teambuild. This thread is not about how you or I would play their Paragons, though - it is for a person NEW to the class (except for some obvious trolls we're trying to help the OP here, right?). Intentionally lowering the AL on a Survivor is nothing I would recommend doing to a person who isn't yet really used to this class.

Oh well, I guess the OP can tell for him-/herself now what they want to do. *shrug*

Res Ipsi · Mar 23, 2008, 02:16 PM // 14:16

The OP requested info on the best build to run to get his para to survivor (assuming he intends to actually play and not leech). Given that, I'd think anyone who *has* gotten this title would have better insights into how to go about it. I'd put my money on Fantus in this regard.