Curse

cataphract · Apr 28, 2009, 06:24 AM // 06:24

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ratson Itamar

@cataphract
Do you really have 3-5 copies of SS in your group? Because if you do, you suck. I've put it so bluntly because I will just waste my time explaining why if you actually do have so many copies of it. Using Arcane Echo is just as bad, and added 20 seconds of recharge, more energy, it takes more time until you finally get to cast SS, you're open to get stripped of it, limits your secondary...I can keep going.

If you're putting all your trust into a single overpowered non-necro elite, to put it as bluntly as you have, you suck even more. I dare say you even swallow, but that's a whole new topic which we are not discussing here.

Come to think of it, this is a topic of "help improving my arcane ss build" and not your "omigosh, omigosh, ss is teh sux l2p nub, i'm so pro because i side with the loudest". Coming to a "help improve my ss build" thread with notions about AP does not make you cool. It shows people you're completely unable to stay on topic just for the sake of trying to be cool by association. Worst kind of fail there is. Ergo, please stop being a scrub and gtfo if you can't follow a topic.

I shall say this one last time: I have ran both SS and AP builds on many occassions. Neither has a big advantage over the other and what it comes down to is personal preference. One may choose to run AP or they can choose SS. Both builds can be ran with great sucess. It's just that SS takes a bit more skill and coordination while AP is the easier way out.

Moloch Vein · Apr 28, 2009, 06:49 AM // 06:49

Quote:

Originally Posted by traversc

You may not have seen Moloch's earlier post, which was deleted because it was abrasive and flame-filled. That's pretty much evidence that his his diatribe against SS is pretty much a result of his own narrow-mindedness.

I didn't "flame" anyone, much less you, though your recent behavior has me tempted. Your post was deleted as well, I believe something about me being an "elitist" and a "joke", which made me not-so-inclined to answer. I pointed out that missing an AP generally is the result of incompetence, yours or mine. I'm not even the best AP player in my guild.

Quote:

Against 3-4 hex removers (healers and the sporadic mesmer), it is nigh impossible to get a hex to consistently stick for "3-5 seconds" even with a fish-hex.

There are some areas where hexes period are quite weak. The problem is that Spiteful Spirit is even worse in these areas.

Quote:

But there ARE some areas in the game where taking AP is just not productive. I've already named a few: Vloxen, Duncan, frost gate, Sacnoth valley, etc. For those saying that SS sucks, I challenge you, take an AP caller H/H through vloxen HM (which is definitely not even the hardest area) and see how far you get.

First of all I rarely play with only heroes and henchmen. However;

Jon (Justified Soul) completed Vloxen in Hard Mode with heroes and henchmen with little problem using a Mark/AP build.

Frost Gate HM I don't even understand what the problem is supposed to be; the entire mission is a pushover regardless of whatever synergized team setup you use, as long as you bring some sort of enchantment removal to deal with the Dolyak protection spells (and I admit otherwise, it would be really, really annoying.) AP is immensely stronger than SS here with the capacity of pinpointing enemy healers, trashing their defenses and recharging the trashing skills.

Sacnoth Valley I vanquished myself using heroes and henchmen with a "standard" setup. Again I don't really understand the problem. What is yours? The Charr, the Mandragors?

For your information I do not use three necromancer heroes most of the time.

My bottom line would be that for general Hero/Henchmen work AP/MoP nuker isn't the best solo human player. The best is sadly and simply an imbagon build. A Mark/AP will always do more damage and provide more shutdown and utility, but my problem is rarely how to kill stuff, it's more how to make my own team stay alive if I'm up against anything hard.

When running a 6 hero/2 human setup, the best general setup is one SY-worthy build plus one Mark/AP. There are exceptions, true, but they are very rare. In no case would I ever consider running an SS bar on myself in this scenario. This isn't due to some kind of "narrow-mindedness", it's simply because I recognize that the damage and utility from this type of bar is weaker.

Ratson Itamar · Apr 28, 2009, 09:23 AM // 09:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by cataphract

AP does not make you cool. It shows people you're completely unable to stay on topic just for the sake of trying to be cool by association. Worst kind of fail there is.

And the flaming begins...if you go back, you will see that I wasn't the first one to mention AP. Actually, a little funny fact, you mentioned it before me. Now, isn't that nice?

@traversc
I won't quote you because I don't agree with so many things that you've said that it will bother me immensely to quote and then comment on everything. for that, forgive me.

Quote:

Originally Posted by cataphract

t's just that SS takes a bit more skill and coordination while AP is the easier way out.

Cataphract, this part is also for you. "SS takes more skill than AP", pfff. I don't want to call you a liar but how can anyone say that after experiencing with these two build?

If you have a problem getting AP to stick for a mere few seconds, how using SS will have better results? Now you will tell me that it has a shorter recharge and that you can echo it...So I will pretend like you already have and comment about it. Echoing and spamming it on recharge won't do you any good, you've mentioned a massive hex removal situation (8+ hex remover skills right?). Here are some possible ways to fight those pesky monks with SS;
1. Spread the wealth. 1 SS on one monk, hex getting removed and maybe eat more than just one hex removal skill. Then you SS the second target, it get removed very quickly and you pray again that it will eat more than one hex. You said that the problem with AP is in HM...well your hexes will be removed so fast in HM with 8+ hex removers that SS won't have a visible effect. Also, the recharge and casting time are way faster so a general hex remover is 8-12 seconds, cut that (to half?) and your elite is rather useless, unless you bring other quickly recharged hexes, in that case your entire bar rather useless because it's dedicated to one (let's make-believe and say an amazing) elite skill.
2. Stacking all of your hexes on one monk. To make that even considerable you will have to have 8+ hexes, in other words, your entire bar. Look a bit above to see why dedicating your entire bar is dumb.
3. Casting an hex, wait for it to get removed, put another one, wait for it to get removed again...and son and so forth. You'll be useless with minimum effect on your enemies, not like that stopped you before...

With AP, you only need to have the hex stay on for just the spike. You can catch the monks in the beginning of the fight where they all cast at the same time the same spell. It's better used with humans thanks to their ability to carry PvE-only skills but you can also do it with H/H. I'm not sure that will work with triple necros though, because you need a setup before the spike (for Discord) unless you take 6 discords, in which case that tactic will work. (it's still called H/H because you get a friend to lend you his heroes and then he, himself, leaves. I guess I could take pictures but it's a really an unneeded hassle. You may try it yourself, if you fail at it I guess I could take some pics....but really try it yourself first.

(If you can't handle with those 4 monks then just take Lingering Curse. SS WILL always be sub-par, that's his goal; General use everywhere but is worse than other elites in a specific situation, like the one that you've mentioned yourself)

The only great use of SS is when you farm, and in some cases it even gets outshined by Spoil Victor. You don't have to stick to that skill because it was the only good option a long time ago, things have changed.

Longasc · Apr 28, 2009, 03:10 PM // 15:10

AP or SS - whatever floats your boat!

Just do not get too worked up about that singular issue.

Get something with Mark of Pain, Enfeebling Blood and Necrosis.
Signet of Lost Souls is glued to my bar, too. In fact, I just noticed I hardly run anything without it. Cry of Pain and Ether Nightmare are also very worthwhile.

Defile and Desecrate Enchantments are remnants from the past, before we got tons of PvE skills. They just do not kick anymore. And even before, Mark of Pain and a lot of physical attackers was still doing the brunt of the damage.

Spiteful Spirit seems to have fallen from grace, the reason people still use it because besides the less used Lingering Curse, who gets a lot of flak for PvP (ab)use, we do not have that many Curses Elite skills that are useful for PvE. The power is in the non-elites.

Calista Blackblood · Apr 28, 2009, 03:29 PM // 15:29

Enough!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Closed