Curse

Chthon · Jul 25, 2009, 10:14 PM // 22:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by Techpriest

So at what point does all the doom and gloom kick in?

Right about the time you hit level 20 the difficulty should come up enough that you should start to realize that both vampiric touch and necros with swords are terrible ideas. Assuming you're in Prophecies, your current build should be in for a world of hurt in the Desert. Until then, have fun playing around with various stuff and learning how things work.

Really, at this point, learning the game mechanics is much more important than using good builds. If you learn why the world wags and what wags it, you'll be able to design and modify builds to meet the challenges you face. If you merely learn to copy good builds from the forums, you will be better equipped than you are now, but still ill-equipped to face new challenges. So, go have fun with vampiric touch. It's terrible, but you'll gain more by learning for yourself why it's terrible than by taking my word for it.

wilebill · Jul 25, 2009, 11:36 PM // 23:36

Years ago skill balances were such that the N/W was usable. But since that time skill balances have changed and I have not seen any N/W running around.

Voodoo Rage · Jul 26, 2009, 12:25 AM // 00:25

For just about any caster profession /Me is always a solid secondary choice. Whether you are going to bring along Echo, a simple interrupt signet, Cry of Pain, or even a full blown mesmer build that utilizes the energy of Soul Reaping, you can't go wrong with that choice.

Personally I run a Fevered Dreams build with 3 discord necros.

Jaigoda · Jul 27, 2009, 03:56 AM // 03:56

For PvE, you have a few good options for a secondary: Assassin for Assassin's Promise, Monk for a hard res, Ele for Glyph of Lesser Energy, or Rit for Splinter Weapon and hard res. None of the physical prof's (besides 'Sins) really go well with necros, and mesmers really don't have all that much to offer for general gameplay. You have Cry of Pain for mesmers, which can be useful, but it's not as good on necros as other professions.

Overall, I would say a Rit or Assassin secondary would get you the most mileage in general PvE. Just be sure to remember that for necro's, you can function quite well even without a secondary, so using only one or two skill slots for your secondary is fine/ideal.

Voodoo Rage · Jul 27, 2009, 03:49 PM // 15:49

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jaigoda

...and mesmers really don't have all that much to offer for general gameplay. You have Cry of Pain for mesmers, which can be useful, but it's not as good on necros as other professions.

Xenomortis tipped me off to an AWESOME build using the mesmer elite [Fevered Dreams] running alongside a triple-necro Discord team:

[Fevered Dreams]
[Cry of Pain]
[YMLAD!]
[Enfeeble]
[Rip Enchantment]
[Signet of Lost Souls]
[Finish Him!]
[Barbs] - or some other optional hex

So the whole mob is almost instantly hit with Degen from Cry of Pain, Cripple, Weakness, Deep Wound, and Cracked Armor (and most importantly DAZE as you stack on conditions). And of course you are providing the hex and conditions for your discord team.

_Nihilist_ · Jul 27, 2009, 09:15 PM // 21:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by Techpriest

So at what point does all the doom and gloom kick in?

Probably around the Crystal Desert - the missions in the Desert are set up to simulate fighting a balanced PvP team, and you're going to have a tough time taking them down with your current setup.

While you're in the Maguuma Jungle, you're going to have a problem with your Minions being stolen (the Spiders there use Necro skills to steal them from you).

In PvP, the only reason you'd go with a Warrior secondary would be to utilize blocking stances/skills like Defensive Stance, Balanced Stance, and Shield Bash. Trying to be a frontliner with 60AL (up to 76AL if you're using a shield and you meet its requirements, but that's going to be stretching your attributes a bit) isn't going to do much but provide the opposing team with a few seconds of comedic relief before they make you take a dirt nap and irritate your team, if they don't kick you as soon as you ping your build to them.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Arghore

I thought about making a W/N instead...

W/N is a combination that can work, but only with a minimal investment in Necro attributes, if any at all. Plague Touch is a great skill for condition removal as long as you don't go crazy with it (I suggest only removing Blind, Cripple, Deep Wound, and Weakness). Most of the other Necro skills require too much of an investment to be worthwhile, and yes, if you invest that heavily, you will hamper your efficiency as a Warrior. At the very most, go 12/10/8 split with either 8 or 10 in a Necro attribute to have a bit of fun, but it's not going to be particulary spectacular.

Xenomortis · Jul 27, 2009, 09:24 PM // 21:24

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tyrael_Eveningsong

While you're in the Maguuma Jungle, you're going to have a problem with your Minions being stolen (the Spiders there use Necro skills to steal them from you).

Only in Hard Mode I recall.

Zakkai Nightbringer · Aug 01, 2009, 01:03 AM // 01:03

I'm all for N/W!!

I've been running an N/W up through the whole game. They're a fun challenge. Everyone has their opinion on what's a good idea and what's not. A good idea for me, is keeping things fresh, challenging and looking totally bad-ass at the same time, standing out from the crowd. Being a pretty cool guy who doesn't afraid of anything.

So...

I've been using Swordsmanship (I started with Axes), Tactics, Curses and Soul Reaping. You have to realise you're not a Minion Master for one thing. Seriously, it sucks if you're trying to be a NecroWarrior, you spend so much time and energy summoning when you should be dealing as much damage as possible with Curses. My tactics make me some sort of Melee Whirlwind, as opposed to the W/Mo tank the Yang to his Ying. Death Magic is a no-no, and Blood Magic drains your max health with too many constant blood sacrifices. You don't skills that damage yourself in the heat of battle, you want Curses for the damage dealing, so you can cut down the length of any fight with superior damage dealing.

My N/W build and tactics (For PvE only):

First you hit them with [Parasitic Bond] for -1 health degeneration, and a +90 health boost in 20 seconds time or when the target dies (at the end of Parasitic Bond). (Note: It recharges fast and only costs 5 energy, so aim it at anything that is being attacked or is likely to die. Use it, use it a lot, and each time anything with it on dies, you'll get a huge health boost. The health degeneration is definitely a side thing as -1 won't do much.) Then you hex them with [Insidious Parasite] because by now they're attacking you. I *DRAIN* 45 health each time they land a Physical Attack, giving me a type of health armor if they're hitting me, and if they're hitting someone else, then I'm sitting there getting a massive regen buff alongside my [Healing Signet] so I can jump back into the battle. (Note: I usually try to aim Insidious Parasite at a Warrior type enemy, as they'll be attacking more often than Caster Monsters) If I'm having trouble or in a hurry, I cast [Soul Barbs] and hit [Flurry], this means my attack rate goes up by 33% and I hit for an extra 10 magic damage, at the expense of 25% of my physical damage. But I have a Vampiric Sword, so I do an extra 3 damage and gain 3 health with each hit, which makes up for the loss. Infact I have [Flurry] under [1], I end up having it up all the time unless I need the energy. It just works out as better DPS in the long run.

If there are a lot of enemies, I throw on [Mark of Pain] which is RED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GOing fantastic with Flurry if you're on a lot of enemies. You can use it to do 30 damage per hit to all surrounding enemies at 33% attack speed. If anything in close range uses a skill that puts a condition on me, I have [Plague Sending] to throw that back, and potentially give them blindness, bleeding, crippled, deep wound or basically any 2 conditions they or their friends have given me. With all this going on, I've got them to half-health pretty soon, so I use [Signet of Lost Souls] (From Nightfall's first town) to drain 64 health and 6 damage so long as they're below 50% hp for absolutely free. If I'm in a lot of trouble, I've thrown in [Healing Signet] as a staple Warrior move to use only when I'm not under attack. When I am under attack, [Insidious Parasite] is good enough to keep up on my opponents to substitute for [Healing Signet] and if I get killed, that's only because I've attacked too many targets and don't have enough Heroes to back me up on my team.

With clever use of this build, I've almost always been the last guy to fall in any party. Try to convince me that's being *totally* useless.

I haven't tried it in PvP by the way, that's not what I'm here for.

Just thought I'd stick up for my new favourite Class combo. With a Vampiric Charr Sword, The Serrated Shield or Skull Shield and a set of Red+Orange Fanatic armour, I also happen to look the goddamn bomb.

My Att's with runes are:

Soul Reaping: 9
Curses: 11
Swords: 9
Tactics: 9

Okay and one last point I forgot to mention: ARMOR INSIGNIAS!

Necromancer Insignias actually have some awesome effects for the aspiring N/W. I've got the following Insignias on my bitchin' black and red armor:

Undertakers Insignia: Adds +5 Armor at 80%, 60%, 40% and 20% health, giving you +20 Armor if you're about to die. Helps you stay alive just a few seconds longer to either retreat or deal that final blow to your tough target. It really is all about speed with this build.

Sentry's Insignia: +10 Armor While in a Stance. Flurry not only increases my damage, but gives me +10 Armor now.

Tormentor's Insignia: +10 Health and +10 Armor but Holy Damage increased by 2. Frankly, I like the idea of giving up Armor against Holy Damage in order to be a better NecroWarrior, but it could be a stupid move in PvP against W/Mo's... Still they don't know that weakness and are unlikely to exploit it unless they're focusing on Smiting Prayers. In PvE, most enemy Monks are too busy healing to use Holy Damage against you. So far I haven't noticed it to be my undoing.

Blighter's Insignia: +20 Armor when affected by a Hex. Kinda like being a Hex Master, and in PvE everyone under-estimates the Mesmers.

There are pleanty of arguments against being an N/W. Here's my one in favour. ------^

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tyrael_Eveningsong

Trying to be a frontliner with 60AL (up to 76AL if you're using a shield and you meet its requirements, but that's going to be stretching your attributes a bit)

You're forgetting Insignia's and Runes aren't you? I realise you still won't be an epic Tank, but you can get your AL up to atleast 80-90 and maybe 100 in certain situations, and compensate any lost Necro attributes with an appropriate Scar-Pattern and Rune or two.

_Nihilist_ · Aug 01, 2009, 01:29 AM // 01:29

Necro Base Armor: 60AL
Shield Armor: 16AL (max armor if you meet the Shield req)
Shield Inscription: 10AL vs. [insert damage type] (Blunt, Cold, Earth, Fire, Lightning, Piercing, Slashing)
Tormentor's Insignia: 10AL
Weapon Grip/Pommel: 7AL

Max: 103AL; this is supposing that you meet the attribute requirement of your shield (wasted attribute investment), that you have 7 Shields on you at all times (1 vs. each damage type you can get an inscription for on your Shield), and that you have both Warding (vs. Elemental) and Shelter (vs. Physical) modded weapons.

Warrior Base AL: 80ALe/100ALp (+20 vs. Physical inherent bonus on all Warrior armor).

Oh, look. Without even carrying a Shield, I have only 3 less AL vs. the 3 types of Physical damage and only 23 less AL vs. the 4 types of Elemental damage, than you, who spent all your time and inscription slots/mod slots trying to buff your Necro's AL.

Casters don't frontline for a reason.

Elephantaliste · Aug 01, 2009, 06:28 AM // 06:28

N/W will be usefull mostly only in pvp/RA for defensive stance or skill

Calista Blackblood · Aug 01, 2009, 08:20 AM // 08:20

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zakkai Nightbringer

I'm all for N/W!!

I've been running an N/W up through the whole game. They're a fun challenge. Everyone has their opinion on what's a good idea and what's not. A good idea for me, is keeping things fresh, challenging and looking totally bad-ass at the same time, standing out from the crowd. Being a pretty cool guy who doesn't afraid of anything.

So...

I never realised that 60ar caster classes looked badass whilst trying to be a warrior.

Quote:

I've been using Swordsmanship (I started with Axes), Tactics, Curses and Soul Reaping. You have to realise you're not a Minion Master for one thing. Seriously, it sucks if you're trying to be a NecroWarrior, you spend so much time and energy summoning when you should be dealing as much damage as possible with Curses. My tactics make me some sort of Melee Whirlwind, as opposed to the W/Mo tank the Yang to his Ying. Death Magic is a no-no, and Blood Magic drains your max health with too many constant blood sacrifices. You don't skills that damage yourself in the heat of battle, you want Curses for the damage dealing, so you can cut down the length of any fight with superior damage dealing.

Superior damage dealing would come in the form of an actual warrior,not a warrior wannabe caster.

Quote:

My N/W build and tactics (For PvE only):

First you hit them with [Parasitic Bond] for -1 health degeneration, and a +90 health boost in 20 seconds time or when the target dies (at the end of Parasitic Bond). (Note: It recharges fast and only costs 5 energy, so aim it at anything that is being attacked or is likely to die. Use it, use it a lot, and each time anything with it on dies, you'll get a huge health boost. The health degeneration is definitely a side thing as -1 won't do much.) Then you hex them with [Insidious Parasite] because by now they're attacking you. I *DRAIN* 45 health each time they land a Physical Attack, giving me a type of health armor if they're hitting me, and if they're hitting someone else, then I'm sitting there getting a massive regen buff alongside my [Healing Signet] so I can jump back into the battle. (Note: I usually try to aim Insidious Parasite at a Warrior type enemy, as they'll be attacking more often than Caster Monsters) If I'm having trouble or in a hurry, I cast [Soul Barbs] and hit [Flurry], this means my attack rate goes up by 33% and I hit for an extra 10 magic damage, at the expense of 25% of my physical damage. But I have a Vampiric Sword, so I do an extra 3 damage and gain 3 health with each hit, which makes up for the loss. Infact I have [Flurry] under [1], I end up having it up all the time unless I need the energy. It just works out as better DPS in the long run.

What do you think the connection between flurry and Soul barbs is?
Flurry doesn't modify damage or damage type.It makes you attack faster,faster attack speed will pretty much cover the 25% loss IIRC.

Quote:

If there are a lot of enemies, I throw on [Mark of Pain] which is RED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GOing fantastic with Flurry if you're on a lot of enemies. You can use it to do 30 damage per hit to all surrounding enemies at 33% attack speed. If anything in close range uses a skill that puts a condition on me, I have [Plague Sending] to throw that back, and potentially give them blindness, bleeding, crippled, deep wound or basically any 2 conditions they or their friends have given me. With all this going on, I've got them to half-health pretty soon, so I use [Signet of Lost Souls] (From Nightfall's first town) to drain 64 health and 6 damage so long as they're below 50% hp for absolutely free. If I'm in a lot of trouble, I've thrown in [Healing Signet] as a staple Warrior move to use only when I'm not under attack. When I am under attack, [Insidious Parasite] is good enough to keep up on my opponents to substitute for [Healing Signet] and if I get killed, that's only because I've attacked too many targets and don't have enough Heroes to back me up on my team.

Plague sending? Why are you saccing 10% in the middle of a mob?
Signet of lost souls doesn't do damage

Quote:

With clever use of this build, I've almost always been the last guy to fall in any party. Try to convince me that's being *totally* useless

I'm not going to try to tell you the build is useless..It IS useless How is kiting and dying last helpfull? Take the hit and res at the nearest shrine,don't mess your team around.

Quote:

Blighter's Insignia: +20 Armor when affected by a Hex. Kinda like being a Hex Master, and in PvE everyone under-estimates the Mesmers.

A 5 energy hex removal on a monk saves a whole load of hassle.Most hexes aren't really that dangerous enough anyway to be worthy of an armour peice with blighters.

Quote:

There are pleanty of arguments against being an N/W. Here's my one in favour. ------^

No.You only think that and I get the feeling you don't have a clue how insignias work.You have 4 on your armor each doing different things.

Undertakers will only give you 20 armour on the armour peice it's on.It's not a global (as in all armour peices insignia) So basically if you're dying,one armour peice /5 has +20 armour.More than likely not the part that is being hit with damage.If your health is below 20% Undertakers could essentially give you +20 armour on your gloves.That isn't going to save you or have any real benefit

Sentrys: Pretty much the same. +10 on the peice of armour it's on and assuming your stance isn't removed.

Tormentors:As long as it isn't on your legs or chest.

Blighters: Because you know which armour peice a hex is going to end up on.
I win thread nao?

Abedeus · Aug 01, 2009, 08:32 AM // 08:32

Ehh. You know that armor insignias aren't cumulative? You get the effect from insignia (the +armor ones, because +health and +energy ones are cumulative) only if you get hit in the armor part with the insignia.

Soul Barbs don't trigger on physical attacks, Barbs do. And even then it's weak when only 1 person with just Flurry is auto-attacking.

Also, I see your attributes are 9/11/9/9? This means you have a Major rune somewhere, and that lowers your survivability even more.

avilia · Aug 03, 2009, 08:11 AM // 08:11

Quote:

Originally Posted by Abedeus

Also, I see your attributes are 9/11/9/9? This means you have a Major rune somewhere, and that lowers your survivability even more.

Actually, you can get 9/12/9/9 with only minor runes (8+1 Soul Reaping, 10+1+1 Curses, 9 Swordsmanship, 9 Tactics).

But anyway, let's just face it, Necromancers and Warriors are two complete polar opposites and just don't work well together. Your defense as a necro is to stay away from your enemies. You do your thing while your teammates or minions hold off the enemy. Warrior skills are focussed on going toe-to-toe with your enemies and are therefore a direct violation of the one rule a necro should follow. And if (for some reason) you need defensive stuff on your necro, there are Norn, Deldrimor and even Asura skills that do it a lot better.

_Nihilist_ · Aug 03, 2009, 09:50 PM // 21:50

Quote:

Originally Posted by Calista BlackBlood

I win thread nao?

No. I won first.

Seriously, though. If you want to play a N/W as a frontliner (this goes to both parasite doll and Zakkai Nightbringer - as well as anyone else wanting to try this), you're going to have a tough time of things.

I play non-optimal builds at times for gits and shiggles, but a Necro is a better Necro than a Warrior and a Warrior is a better Warrior than a Necro. It is what it is.

Graveheart · Aug 07, 2009, 04:17 PM // 16:17

I am one of the nutcases that played meleemancer for a while,finished prophecies with it before factions was released.
Hammer didnt require to spread points around too much,plus spine chill+icebreaker was nice to maul a spellcasting boss.
Now as the above posters said N/W isnt much viable nowadays where you need tank.
And yes the backlines are easier and safer,and aura of the lich isnt the tank skill it used to.

Sniper22 · Aug 13, 2009, 06:59 AM // 06:59

You can't limit yourself to one secondary profession. It will change depending on what kind of build you are going to play. Necro with melee weapon is never a good idea. There is no real synergy with them. The only time I ever ran N/W with a sword was in RA with spinal shivers and cripslash for kicks and giggles. Warrior secondary on casters is typically used for defense skills such as balanced stance or shield bash.

Arghore · Aug 13, 2009, 11:43 AM // 11:43

Well, perhaps you have found a build that works

I do have a N/W that is lvl20 and uses the same Energy- / Agro- pool strategy... but still you will have 60 armor and lowish health, as a warrior you will be one of the first to go in (unless you can restrain yourself long enough), meaning you draw all the agro, meaning without good heals, you will die... also i found that its hard to use the Curses (barbs / MoP-physical damage) since as being in the front line you will want those HP touches ... and when you take those, you might aswell be more of a toucher instead of using your melee weapons...

Also as a caster mainly, you will want the energy bonus related to the weapons you carry (and or the bonus to recharge/casting speed) ... melee weapons do have a small bonus, but nothing compared to the real Necro Weapons ... also casting takes time this time you cannot use your weapons ...

Seeing you play 80% with Hero's /Hench, you can make sure your teambuild revolves around you being a N/W; with PuG's you cant always be sure of that, and other players (or leader) rather prefer a Necro that has a build they expect a necro to have for PvE, mainly MM or Grouphexing/debuffing.

For PvP the curses line becomes even more important and casting horrors for your HP will be restricted to the amount of deaths (RA & TA - 4vs4) (HA, GvG - 8vs8 - AB ?vs?) ... but then you can still use the /W for shield bash and other more protective skills...

Its more of an issue that Casting and Melee on one character dont always get the best build that has a high DPS. But there are surely builds there that work, if you PvE mostly, then a N/W can surely work (and in PvP also) aslong as you can build your team around this... and i wouldnt worry about your entire build falling apart, im sure you will find ways to work around this

(2 weapon sets f/e, a bit more casting for when the mission isnt realy suited for a 2e warrior etc. etc.)

Targren · Aug 13, 2009, 12:27 PM // 12:27

Quote:

Originally Posted by Voodoo Rage;4768415

[Fevered Dreams

[Cry of Pain]
[YMLAD!]
[Enfeeble]
[Rip Enchantment]
[Signet of Lost Souls]
[Finish Him!]

Needs more [Fragility].

Mmmm... Fragility.

Xenomortis · Aug 13, 2009, 12:38 PM // 12:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by Targren

Needs more [Fragility].

Mmmm... Fragility.

The build I typically ping when running FD is this:
[OAVDEsx3Q3ATA2kxk2g1B7OVVA]

12 Illusion, 12+1 SR, 3+1 Curses *
Fevered Dreams
Fragility
"You Move like a Dwarf!"
"Finish Him!"
Cry of Pain
Enfeeble
Rip Enchantment
Signet of Lost Souls

*
I would save rune space by using an SR headpiece, but I hate changing armour runes, so I use my Curses headpiece

Voodoo Rage · Aug 13, 2009, 04:19 PM // 16:19

Quote:

Originally Posted by Targren

Needs more [Fragility].

Mmmm... Fragility.

Yeah, it's funny you say that. I got to looking at my build and started thinking "Does Mark of Pain really ADD anything to this build". So I started really looking at what was happening and realized the it was really just being a cover hex since I was mainly targeting the casters and the minion wall wasn't really making it back that far to provide enough physical damage to make it worthwhile. Also, I felt obligated to carry a spear so that I could provide a little physical damage myself. I went ahead and dropped the spear in favor of a 20/20 illusion wand, dropped all curses from the line and spec'd Soul Reaping considerably higher (and used a soul reaping headpiece). NOW, Fragility is part of my build. I was honestly surprised that the damage (especially when you cast Finish Him!) is actually pretty significant.