Curse

Stryk · Jun 30, 2007, 12:52 AM // 00:52

I need a good hybrid build for a pve monk that is leaned more twords prot instead of healing prayers... ive always been solid prot monk and sometimes i notice i dont have enough solid healing and some people complain that im not good... It MIGHT be just me, but i want to see a solid hybrid build. I've been running this lately:

12+1+3 protection prayers
12+1 divine favor

reversal of fortune | guardian | watchful healing | aegis | zealous benediction[E] | dismiss condition | deny hexes | rebirth

and i came up with this:

12+1+3 prot prayers
9+1 divine favor
9+1 healing prayers
RoF | guardian | LoD | Ethereal Light | Aegis | Dismiss condition | deny hexes | rebirth

.. i also want to add prot spirit and/or spirit bond into the mix but i dont know that it would be a good idea since there isnt any e-management on my builds..

[EDIT:] see below for newest build and give constructive critisism to that, not this

Mr Pink57 · Jun 30, 2007, 01:03 AM // 01:03

Take out Guardian for PS if you want it. Also I hate to stay it I cannot stand ZB due to a 7E return for 10E, if you try to take this with a main heal monk most of the time they just heal with WoH and you are stuck with a skill you will never use. I recommend Blessed Light and maybe Sig of Devotion to help Deny Hexes.

Also to help healing put a divine scalp on instead to help with that, although also in pve I do not ever use Sup runes only minors on my monk. Keeps the monsters away since I have more health then the ele's and sometimes a warrior.

pink

Stryk · Jun 30, 2007, 01:14 AM // 01:14

ok.. i have blessed light, i'll try that.

Stryk · Jun 30, 2007, 02:02 AM // 02:02

BL and PS from that didnt turn out so well... probably the equivalent or worse of my previous builds.

I'm still taking suggestions.

ca_aok · Jun 30, 2007, 02:59 AM // 02:59

ZB+RoF should be all the healing you ever need.... that's the point of bringing a "heal" spell as your elite. I suppose you could bring Signet of Devotion if you're desperate for more raw healing, or Gift of Health.

Guardian is an outdated skill... don't use it.

Aegis without GoLE can be problematic sometimes.

Where's Prot Spirit, Shield of Absorption/Shielding Hands, etc?

Sun Fired Blank · Jun 30, 2007, 03:45 AM // 03:45

How useful is your hex removal? My experience is that if you encounter a group in campaign play that is hexing your group to kingdom come, spot removal is going to be inadequate, and your only meaningful solution is going to be an elite such as Divert Hexes or Blessed Light. In that same respect, Protective Spirit and Spirit Bond aren't always that useful in Normal Mode, where it's more unlikely that any single creature can chop off more than 10% of a person's life.

My first inclination is to remove Deny Hexes and Watchful Healing. I wouldn't use Guardian if you have Aegis. Remember that if you must, Dismiss Condition is usable as a heal. If you're searching for another dedicated healing slot, I might consider Gift of Health. If you're searching for a more reusable option, both Signet of Devotion and Signet of Rejuvenation are decent enough and help with energy management. If you're desperate for some energy management, your non-elite options are Glyph of Lesser Energy or Channeling. For the most part, a single non-elite management option is adequate.

Shield of Regeneration is a more costly option that can yield great benefits over time, but in a larger group, it zeroes you rather quickly, and it basically demands Glyph of Lesser Energy and / or Blessed Aura. Restore Condition is another useful option. Healer's Boon and Healing Light also can be useful, but I'm very hesitant about using them over another skill.

Also, remember that you aren't the only person in the group. If you're a protection prayers monk, you shouldn't be responsible for increasing the red bars; your job is to prevent a quick tumble. If they're screaming at you to raise the red bar:

1) They aren't exterminating trouble quickly enough.
2) They have no survival options or strategies of their own.
3) They're not aggroing properly.
4) Your second healer (monk, ritualist, a clever elementalist) is a failure.

You seem rather clever, so I've outright discarded the idea that you're failing, but make sure that if the other factors aren't responsible for grey bars, that every skill on your bar has a use, that you're using them properly, and that you're not zeroing your energy during their use.

LifeInfusion · Jun 30, 2007, 04:07 AM // 04:07

Watchful Healing... is crap
Ethereal Light --> Gift on a Prot bar

ZenRgy · Jun 30, 2007, 04:41 AM // 04:41

[skill]Light of Deliverance[/skill][skill]Dwayna's kiss[/skill][skill]Reversal of Fortune[/skill][skill]Heal Other[/skill][skill]Dismiss Condition[/skill][skill]Protective Spirit[/skill][skill]Glyph of lesser energy[/skill]

11(+2+1) Healing
10(+1) Protection
10 Divine

Then a res of your choice, I swap dismiss for SoA at times etc, prot spirit for spirit bond (if I bump up my prot) You can do 11+2+1 prot instead of healing and bring Shield of Regen.

ZB I don't like if you run 2 monks, tends to get troublesome to use it.

Melody Cross · Jun 30, 2007, 05:33 AM // 05:33

ZB is an excellent heal in a 2-monk backline...when used properly. Especially if you are looking to add more healing to your bar.

LoD hybrid bars are a good choice. So are RCs with gift of health. Some old builds I've used include:

LoD-ELight-RoF-MendC or Dismiss-PS or SB-Aegis-Holy Veil-Rez

RC-GoH-RoF-SB-Aegis-Signet of Devotion-Deny Hexes-Rez

when I run a ZB in PvE I used this most of the time:

ZB-RoF-Signet of Devo-PS-Aegis or Guardian-Deny Hexes-Dismiss Condi-Rez

I find it very effective and I tend to have a surplus of energy during long pressure mob fights. I will sometimes swap out SoD for GoH on my ZB, but I usually use it in areas where hex stacks are annoying but not bad enough to warrant bringing Divert Hexes.

I run superiors on whichever Elite I have for PvE play. Keep enough in Prot to have 9 seconds of Aegis up and no less. I run no less than rank 9 in Healing when I use GoH.

If you do not have a high LB title yet, get one and stick Seed of Life on your bar. It is, tbh, a very powerful group heal. I posted a prot build using it here in the monk forums as well. It works well in NM and HM, 4-8 player areas.

Many monks may not worry about hexes in PvE because the degen is not as big of an issue and--to be frank--many PvE monks I have met focus solely on keeping red bars up. But a warrior with Faintheartednesses on him will be very thankful to you for bringing a hex removal...and you will be very greatful to him when he kills that AI nuker that much quicker

A trick I use with Dismiss is not to think of it as just a condition removal. It is, but it is also capable of being a straight heal. If you have an Aegis chain going (2 hybrid monks usually do in my experience), use it wherever you need either for a helpful boost under pressure. Just make sure your target is enchanted. If he's taking pressure, a pre-protted SB or PS should be on him if Aegis isn't.

If you are having energy problems, I find that most times it is due to overspam. Some players have a tendency to throw their heals all over the place. If this is the case for you, run the LoD and a healing wand and offhand with +20% chance recharge. This will help you spread your heals where they are needed a little better and teach you some control so you don't overheal as much. be sure to bring a +20% enchant mod weaponset as well and learn to weaponswap between casts if you haven't already.

Most important tip I can give you is area awareness. Watch your surroundings and your team--their bodies, not just the bars--to know when and where to pre-prot. If AI breaks from your tanks you will know much sooner if you see them running away from them and toward your mesmer than you will if you just focus on the party bar.

GGs

Darkpower Alchemist · Jun 30, 2007, 06:27 AM // 06:27

[skill=card]Protective Spirit[/skill][skill=card]Shield of Absorption[/skill][skill=card]Reversal of Fortune[/skill][skill=card]Zealous Benediction[/skill][skill=card]Aegis[/skill][skill=card]Glyph of Lesser Energy[/skill][skill=card]Reverse Hex[/skill][skill=card]Resurrection Chant[/skill]

The beauty of protection is that with every spell cast, Divine Favor heals as well, making the mitigation of damage to be more prefered than pure raw healing. That being said, hybrid builds are not as needed or recommended when playing a monk, yet I have played hybrid builds for a long time, so I'll rip into this build to make one.

[skill=card]Protective Spirit[/skill][skill=card]Shielding Hands[/skill][skill=card]Gift of Health[/skill][skill=card]Blessed Light[/skill][skill=card]Aegis[/skill][skill=card]Glyph of Lesser Energy[/skill][skill=card]Signet of Rejuvenation[/skill][skill=card]Resurrection Chant[/skill]

This build is stable and probably used regularly in PvE scenarios with moderate hex and condition situations. This would be a build I would rather play if I'm a 3rd monk on a team. It would take some coordination to not overlap some spells with those of the protection monk. Aegis chains can be very useful, and this is the perfect build to be a part of such a strategy. Also, if you have a protection Monk, he will more than likely have SoA on his bar, and thus, you don't need to have it on your bar,too. It's a choice, of course, but SH would be more useful than 2 copies of SoA,imo. Also, if you have casted or plan to cast enchantments on yourself, look into using this spell: [skill=card]Release Enchantments[/skill]. It's like having [skill=card]Heal Party[/skill] but costs less and its use can be triggered at the end of previously used enchantments. Just my 2 cents.

Stryk · Jun 30, 2007, 07:13 AM // 07:13

ok so far i have

RoF | ZB | Spirit Bond | Glyph of Lesser Energy | Aegis | Dismiss Condtion | smite hex(i dont have another divine favor skill to put on for deny) | rebirth.

i ran this build with Life Sheath for Jennur's Horde mission and there were very little problems. spirit bond is pretty good and way better than prot spirit for pve in my opinion...

Btw i am aware that dismiss heals even with no conditions. I don't want to be a monk thats focused on healing, but i want to have my build more to the prot side.
Guardian is very much crap, i had it on there when i was capping healers boon and thought it was pretty good.
as for watchful healing i had that on over signet of devotion for deny hexes to work better, cuz the signet has too long a casting time for the kind of "spikes" henchmen can take in the casting time -_-"... (and sometimes with death penalty...)
in the above build there isnt room for seed of life, since mine only lasts 8 seconds (and 20% enchantment mod)

and... yeh i guess i need to practice "how and what to pre-prot with" but i always cast aegis before i go into a mob

Darkpower Alchemist · Jul 01, 2007, 06:58 AM // 06:58

[skill=big]Spirit Bond[/skill]

VS

[skill=big]Protective Spirit[/skill]

In this one fall to a finish, Protective Spirit has a totally different use than Spirit Bond. They are both used to stop the spike, but they have 2 different mechanics. PS is used to Pre Prot as well as to stop the onslaught of an unstoppable spike, while SB stops the end of most spikes as they already have occured.

SB is most effective after the spike has started, while PS is most effective before the damage is even inflicted. Both can be used, and preference would be definitely upon the monk, even though PS is prefered in PvE while both are used in PvP. Yet, both together on a bar,or in a build isn't recommended, since PS limits damage and SB is triggered by the damage done. They lack synergy, from my perspective. SB also doesn't play nice with SoA, so that makes it also not welcome on a bar with SB. That being said, and the knowledge that most protection and protection hybrid bars have 1 or both of the previous mentioned skills, SB isn't the most used even if it is very useful.

Winner: The protection monk, for having great options.

Div · Jul 01, 2007, 12:25 PM // 12:25

PS saves your ass in HM

Spirit bond just makes it so those monsters take 3 hits instead of 2 to kill you...

Stryk · Jul 04, 2007, 06:22 AM // 06:22

OK i now agree PS is better, at least for the Realm of Torment... and so is Divert Hexes!

Rof | SoA | PS | GoLE |Aegis | Dismiss Condition | DIvert Hexes[E] | Rebirth

this build pretty much owned the place up in the Realm of Torment, especially in the 2nd to last mission... I'm doing good with full prot now but i still appreciate any handy tips you could give me.

wilson · Jul 04, 2007, 07:58 AM // 07:58

[skill]reversal of fortune[/skill][skill]shield of deflection[/skill][skill]gift of health[/skill][skill]dismiss condition[/skill][skill]protective spirit[/skill][skill]holy veil[/skill][skill]glyph of lesser energy[/skill][skill]rebirth[/skill]
Divine Favor: 11(10+1)
Protection Prayers: 14(12+1+1)
Healing Prayers: 9(8+1)

I used this in HM not too long ago, together with another ZB Prot Monk. It worked very well.

The other Monk's bar looked something like this:
[skill]reversal of fortune[/skill][skill]zealous benediction[/skill][skill]gift of health[/skill][skill]dismiss condition[/skill][skill]spirit bond[/skill][skill]holy veil[/skill][skill]glyph of lesser energy[/skill][skill]rebirth[/skill]
Not sure on the attribute point distribution though.

If you feel safe enough with your team, replace [skill]rebirth[/skill] with [skill]shield of absorption[/skill] or [skill]shielding hands[/skill] or whatever you feel like.

drupal · Jul 04, 2007, 09:32 AM // 09:32

Take Holy Veil instead of Deny Hexes, mainly if you got no other (long recharging) Divine Skill.

It has some major opportunities because it is an enchantment - you can easily cast it on a hexed foe, use Dismiss Condition therefore remove a condition and heal and after that you remove the Hex.
This is a nice heal, hex and condition remove for 10 Energy, just a bit weaker than Blessed Light =)

Moa Bird Cultist · Jul 10, 2007, 03:32 PM // 15:32

Repost of my hybrid skillbar:

PP: 12+3+1
DF: 12+1

Equipment: Enchanting staff, Blessed Insignias FTW

[skill]Blessed Light[/skill][skill]Reversal Of Fortune[/skill][skill]Shield Of Absorption[/skill][skill]Mend Condition[/skill]/[skill]Deny Hexes[/skill]
[skill]Glyph Of Lesser Energy[/skill][skill]Protective Spirit[/skill][skill]Aegis[/skill][skill]Resurrection Signet[/skill]

Reasoning for skill choices:

[skill]Blessed Light[/skill]
Does a little of everything, heals, removes hexes and conditions, but expensive, so not ideal for individual cases of any of the former

[skill]Reversal Of Fortune[/skill]
You don't need to give a reason for running this skill. If you spam anything, this is the one to do.

[skill]Shield Of Absorption[/skill]
THE anti-pressure skill. Gets better for every hit the target takes and lasts 8 seconds of it's effective 11 second cooldown with a half decent enchanting mod.

[skill]Mend Condition[/skill]
Use this in condition heavy areas as an alternative to Blessed Light in order to save energy when you only need to remove a dangerous condition such as dazed.

OR

[skill]Deny Hexes[/skill]
The same premise as Mend condition, but for hex-heavy areas. Under certain conditions, (RoT,) Convert Hexes is better however.

[skill]Glyph Of Lesser Energy[/skill]
Precast for Aegis and then one other 10/15e skill. The resulting cost will be 11/15 energy instead of 25/30 energy.

[skill]Protective Spirit[/skill]
Largely unnecessary for the majority of the time, but king in Realm Of Torment and Hard Mode, not to mention against Ele bosses.

[skill]Aegis[/skill]
Party-wide melee defense with huge range. I'll have me some of that. best saved for when faced with an aggro-break.

[skill]Resurrection Signet[/skill]
Because the rangers and paragons should be bringing the hard res, not you, since they're less likely to die in a wipe than you are. Plus this affords the ability to perform a combat res as a monk with no huge impact on overall prot-ability. (Lay down a powerful pre-prot like Aegis or SoA, then use RS, although if the downed player isn't ressurected by that point, your team is most likely to be fail.)

I usually run this with at least 1 E/Mo hero with:

X Magic: 15-16
Energy Storage: 10
PP: 9

X/X/X/X/X/Aegis/Convert Hexes/Res

X skills being skills for either a SF Nuker or Sandstorm Warder. Just because Aegis is god and Convert Hexes is too good on an E/Mo to pass up.

Works best with: Healers Boon Healing Monk, as they can use Heal Other as an infuse, something this build lacks. LoD monks work as well, but not as effectively and WoH monks work with just about everything as usual. Healing Light Monks are not bad either.

Edit: Another thing that works wonders with builds like this is a:

[skill]Cautery Signet[/skill][skill]Mantra Of Inscriptions[/skill] P/Me or Me/P. This one's a good idea if you're running deny hexes, as it covers the hole in the build very effectively without any huge investment on the para's part - they can still run a spear chucker/command build very easily, although they will have lower leadership than usual.

Age · Jul 11, 2007, 12:30 AM // 00:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by Melody Cross

ZB is an excellent heal in a 2-monk backline...when used properly. Especially if you are looking to add more healing to your bar.

LoD hybrid bars are a good choice. So are RCs with gift of health. Some old builds I've used include:

LoD-ELight-RoF-MendC or Dismiss-PS or SB-Aegis-Holy Veil-Rez

RC-GoH-RoF-SB-Aegis-Signet of Devotion-Deny Hexes-Rez

when I run a ZB in PvE I used this most of the time:

ZB-RoF-Signet of Devo-PS-Aegis or Guardian-Deny Hexes-Dismiss Condi-Rez

I find it very effective and I tend to have a surplus of energy during long pressure mob fights. I will sometimes swap out SoD for GoH on my ZB, but I usually use it in areas where hex stacks are annoying but not bad enough to warrant bringing Divert Hexes.

I run superiors on whichever Elite I have for PvE play. Keep enough in Prot to have 9 seconds of Aegis up and no less. I run no less than rank 9 in Healing when I use GoH.

If you do not have a high LB title yet, get one and stick Seed of Life on your bar. It is, tbh, a very powerful group heal. I posted a prot build using it here in the monk forums as well. It works well in NM and HM, 4-8 player areas.

Many monks may not worry about hexes in PvE because the degen is not as big of an issue and--to be frank--many PvE monks I have met focus solely on keeping red bars up. But a warrior with Faintheartednesses on him will be very thankful to you for bringing a hex removal...and you will be very greatful to him when he kills that AI nuker that much quicker

A trick I use with Dismiss is not to think of it as just a condition removal. It is, but it is also capable of being a straight heal. If you have an Aegis chain going (2 hybrid monks usually do in my experience), use it wherever you need either for a helpful boost under pressure. Just make sure your target is enchanted. If he's taking pressure, a pre-protted SB or PS should be on him if Aegis isn't.

If you are having energy problems, I find that most times it is due to overspam. Some players have a tendency to throw their heals all over the place. If this is the case for you, run the LoD and a healing wand and offhand with +20% chance recharge. This will help you spread your heals where they are needed a little better and teach you some control so you don't overheal as much. be sure to bring a +20% enchant mod weaponset as well and learn to weaponswap between casts if you haven't already.

Most important tip I can give you is area awareness. Watch your surroundings and your team--their bodies, not just the bars--to know when and where to pre-prot. If AI breaks from your tanks you will know much sooner if you see them running away from them and toward your mesmer than you will if you just focus on the party bar.

GGs

Yeap I am not big on hexs as I prefer conditions.

Melody Cross · Jul 11, 2007, 02:30 AM // 02:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by Moa Bird Cultist

[skill]Resurrection Signet[/skill]
Because the rangers and paragons should be bringing the hard res, not you, since they're less likely to die in a wipe than you are. Plus this affords the ability to perform a combat res as a monk with no huge impact on overall prot-ability. (Lay down a powerful pre-prot like Aegis or SoA, then use RS, although if the downed player isn't ressurected by that point, your team is most likely to be fail.)

In my experience, this is bad advice. PvE monks are in a backline that can be kept far in the back. If you remain aware of what is going on around you, you have the best chance of escaping in the event of a wipe. If paragons and rangers are less likely to die than you are then it is usually because they've KITED the mob that was hitting them through YOU.

Teams may not like it (I've even had players whine for being down so long and so will you) but the hard rez of choice that I run--heal or prot--in PvE is Rebirth. Its the only hard corpse pull in the game, and the single best way to protect your team from extra DP while you get them up. When they back up, you back up. Don't stand and spam. That is the reason I see most monks die in NM PvE (and often HM too). They get obsessed with the red bars and ignore changing positions, don't kite, and then die trying to tank through self heals.

Melee characters should find room for a rez sig and use that skill in combat instead of expecting a hard rez to bring players up on a regular basis. There is sometimes reason for a caster to carry a hard rez (ele, rit, mesmer, para sigs with paragons, etc) but putting spells on rangers and paragons is a serious hit to their energy managers.

More than 3 hard rez skills is overkill, which is why I recommend 2 Rebirths in a party and (if available) 1 hard rez caster with Rez chant or renew life or the paragon rez. If the hard rez or a monk is killed, your team should have the clarity to use their sigs. If the team is wiping and one monk Rebirther is killed, chances are high that the other can still get away, safely rez the team and pull them to a place where they can regroup and try again.

There are enough bosses in most areas that this works fine and--in the event your team wipes--you can get them back up safely.

Beyond areas like fighting Abbadon where there are regular moral boosts, theres no reason for a monk to bring rez sig and several good reasons for them not to. Combat rezzing under pressure is the LAST job a monk should be doing. Those 3-6 seconds are better spent keeping your team up so they can do it.

Other than that, your BLight is a very good build. I've run those other 8 skills in PvE a lot and it is quite solid for removing stuff. Most times I run a BLight, I try to run it efficiently. The great think about that elite is that it is everything a monk needs wrapped into one skill. The problem is, there are always siuations where you can use it, but shouldn't.

It does 3 things: remove a condi, remove a hex and gives a strong heal. I never use BLight where I only need one of these things done unless its taking off dazed. If I use it to do two things at once--or, another way, cast a 10 energy spell to do the job of two 5 energy spells--then I've used it efficiently. If I use it to do all three things at once, then its saving me energy...but that is rare.

I say this because it is real easy to misuse BLight. Players who have trouble with the skill should try thinking of it that way. Hope that is helpful.

GGs

moko · Jul 11, 2007, 01:54 PM // 13:54

take hardrez in pugs, take no sort of rez on your monks with your own teams. case closed imo.