Curse

Cathode_Reborn · Sep 24, 2008, 07:30 PM // 19:30

I think a common misconception is that HB is only good for party-healing. The skill itself isn't braindead like people say. It becomes braindead when you stand way far in the back and start spamming GoLE + HP. That's the most common use of HB especially among pug's, so it's earned itself a reputation of being a bad skill that takes no effort to use. If you think HB is braindead, then stop running lazy builds.

When you replace those 2 skills with direct heal skills and look at the overall healing from HB, it can outdo WoH. Do the numbers and think again before you try to prove otherwise. I've yet to see a good argument proving that it really is a "bad" skill. I'm not expecting to see one either. Like I said, I'll agree that WoH is better most of the time, but HB is far from bad and is the better choice in a few situations.....and no I'm not talkin about that GoLE + HP crap.

Snow Bunny · Sep 24, 2008, 07:53 PM // 19:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cathode_Reborn

When you replace those 2 skills with direct heal skills and look at the overall healing from HB, it can outdo WoH. Do the numbers and think again before you try to prove otherwise. I've yet to see a good argument proving that it really is a "bad" skill. I'm not expecting to see one either. Like I said, I'll agree that WoH is better most of the time, but HB is far from bad and is the better choice in a few situations.....and no I'm not talkin about that GoLE + HP crap.

Because you can put 6 prots and emanage on your bar and achieve better results?

Trylo · Sep 24, 2008, 08:54 PM // 20:54

Quote:

Originally Posted by maxxfury

Btw enjoying this thread Good solid arguments for both sides for a change Food for thought while im bored at work

pretty much my whole idea behind posting the comment of HB.

well at least i might have my psychology homework done, challenging those norms. at least half the people who replied had totally irrelevant posts.

so basically the bars come down to this:

[Word of Healing][patient spirit][guardian][shield of absorption][protective spirit][cure hex][free][free]

[patient spirit][guardian][shield of absorption][protective spirit][heal party][glyph of lesser energy]*[healer's boon][cure hex]

*I like auspicious incantation a lot but it needs a few points to be more useful than GoLE's management so im going to stick with GoLE for the thread.

but really you dont even need heal party. i just make a big deal out of it because (imo) its the best party healing because of its quick recharge and availability to use on demand. on some occasions i have not been able to have enough party heals with koalai and life. also, both the WoH and HB bars have the same prot spec and ability. BOTH. some people cant grasp that fact (even with auspicious thats only a 1 second drop in guardian and PS, no change in SoA).

now this edited bar is a little weird because its basically a one heal WoH bar. the free spaces could be used for another prot + Dwaynas. this however i think is inferior to a WoH bar.

@Cathode_Reborn:
youre trying to help but sinking into that "HB can outheal anything" pothole im trying to get people away from thinking about. it's not really about healing capabilities, but about efficiency; why run party healing on a midline if you could run it on a monk with a similar degree of staying power that a WoH has?

@whoever said heal party is interruptible:
so are all the 1 second prots?

Cathode_Reborn · Sep 24, 2008, 09:48 PM // 21:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by Snow Bunny

Because you can put 6 prots and emanage on your bar and achieve better results?

You still need healing to go with those prots. If a monk/ER ele/Nec dedicates itself to prot spamming, then it's fine for a monk to run HB to dish out the direct powerheals. It just gets even better when you got an Orders on the team fueling DKiss.

Trylo · Sep 24, 2008, 11:24 PM // 23:24

woh, 6 prots, emanage is what he meant. this would still be able to heal 200+ every 3 secs while having the most compact bar possible allowing for more prots (which HB definitely can not do).

i would have to say even with a full prot spamming it would be good to have prots on the HB. especially the more powerful SoA which would actually benefit from being recasted and replaced.

Cathode_Reborn · Sep 24, 2008, 11:43 PM // 23:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by Trylo

woh, 6 prots, emanage is what he meant. this would still be able to heal 200+ every 3 secs while having the most compact bar possible allowing for more prots (which HB definitely can not do).

Everyone already knows that hybrid bars arn't an HB's strength, but when you already got something with lots of prots, it's still fine to make a 2nd monk run it for the powerheals. Honestly though, if you're gonna put 6 prots on somethin, I'd take a N/Mo or ER ele for that even if it means you lose WoH.

Cathode_Reborn · Sep 25, 2008, 12:02 AM // 00:02

Quote:

Originally Posted by Improvavel

A HB will bring HB, 2 spot heals, HP, 1 hex removal, 1 condition removal, aegis, PS or SB. That will leave out the minor prot out. It is also making you bar running 2 10e skills and 1 15e skill.

Good thing GW is a team game. Assuming I'm runnin heroes with another person, I'll have an N/Mo handle the prots, conditions, and hex removal. There's also no rule saying that you absolutely must bring HP on an HB monk. Sure they combine well, but for 15e? Stay off my bar please.

All that leaves plenty of space on the HB.

Honestly though, I still wish HB was a maintained enchantment again cause I prefered running it on N/Mo's.

moko · Sep 25, 2008, 12:24 PM // 12:24

Quote:

Originally Posted by FrAnt1c²

It is if you are running max armor, and if you are already enchanted with ps... Or not?

no, sb will work with ps any time.

-Lotus- · Sep 25, 2008, 01:47 PM // 13:47

I just dont see why you would want HB even if for some reason you were running pure healing. high-attribute healing skills with divine favor will almost fill a bar by themself. there is no reason to boost their healing power. even if there were some reason to take pure healing (and there isnt) some sort of utility elite, like RC would still be more useful.

Trylo · Sep 25, 2008, 08:41 PM // 20:41

Quote:

Originally Posted by Moko

no, sb will work with ps any time.

it also works under SoA (and most, if not all, prots in the game), just another reason it is so popular.

Quote:

Originally Posted by -Lotus-

I just dont see why you would want HB even if for some reason you were running pure healing. high-attribute healing skills with divine favor will almost fill a bar by themself. there is no reason to boost their healing power. even if there were some reason to take pure healing (and there isnt) some sort of utility elite, like RC would still be more useful.

once again, your post is highly irrelevant.

EDIT: if you were talking to cathode i apologize, his posts are quite fail.

JoeKnowMo · Sep 25, 2008, 10:14 PM // 22:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by Trylo

at least half the people who replied had totally irrelevant posts.

Agreed.

Quote:

so basically the bars come down to this:

[Word of Healing][patient spirit][guardian][shield of absorption][protective spirit][cure hex][free][free]

[patient spirit][guardian][shield of absorption][protective spirit][heal party][glyph of lesser energy]*[healer's boon][cure hex]

If you can manage with just 1 single-target heal on the HB bar (PatSp), then you can manage with just WoH on the WoH bar. So PatSp can be dropped from the first bar, giving you 3 [free] slots.

Quote:

but really you dont even need heal party.

If you don't need Heal Party, then don't bother with HB. HB buffs PatSp (and DKiss) nicely but not to such obscene levels that they completely outdo WoH. And if you can manage with WoH, then HB is just taking up a slot that could be used for something else.

Quote:

also, both the WoH and HB bars have the same prot spec and ability. BOTH.

Agree on the prot spec. Disagree on the ability since WoH can take more prots/utility.

Trylo · Sep 26, 2008, 01:32 AM // 01:32

Quote:

Originally Posted by JoeKnowMo

If you can manage with just 1 single-target heal on the HB bar (PatSp), then you can manage with just WoH on the WoH bar. So PatSp can be dropped from the first bar, giving you 3 [free] slots.

very true. i was thinking about this myself, but in the end i thought that a 2nd heal would probably be more use than a 6th(!) prot.

Quote:

Originally Posted by JoeKnowMo

If you don't need Heal Party, then don't bother with HB. HB buffs PatSp (and DKiss) nicely but not to such obscene levels that they completely outdo WoH. And if you can manage with WoH, then HB is just taking up a slot that could be used for something else.

yea... that was a bit of a stretch

.

Quote:

Originally Posted by JoeKnowMo

Agree on the prot spec. Disagree on the ability since WoH can take more prots/utility.

just out of curiosity... what exactly are you going to do with so much free space? there are no more prots that a really that useful that you need them. sure shielding hands is nice, but necessary i dont really think so. reversal of fortune, imo, doesnt really have a place on a hybrid bar (because it actually gains/looses a lot depending on spec). that leaves more 10e spells, like aegis and spirit bond/prot spirit. if you take another 10e the last slot will be emanagement i assume. i guess condition removal is always useful, but unless its RC i would argue other classes are better at it (AKA broken foul feast).

in 4v4 matches, woh wins big time because of the ease of going /w, /a, or anything for survivability. there, you actually need to slots. in HA... i dont think having 1 prot justifies all the points taken out of DF on an HB bar, and you would probably drop spotless mind for it (which is quite necessary during migraine/hex stacks).

soooo... i would definitely rather run it in pve than WoH because of the easy party heals on demand, but in pvp i doubt id use it often over WoH (unless 6v6 made a reappearance...)

JDRyder · Sep 26, 2008, 07:10 AM // 07:10

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cathode_Reborn

You still need healing to go with those prots. If a monk/ER ele/Nec dedicates itself to prot spamming, then it's fine for a monk to run HB to dish out the direct powerheals. It just gets even better when you got an Orders on the team fueling DKiss.

Why do you need any more than Woh and Patient Spirit/Dkiss? WoH takes bars back up to fun HP, Patient does half as well as Dkiss if theres hexes or enchants. They all have fast cool downs and you dont need HB for them heal people to full.

Burst Cancel · Sep 26, 2008, 03:44 PM // 15:44

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chthon

On a two-spot-heal bar, WoH chain casting alongside one other spot heal is roughly equivalent to chain casting 2 spot heals both buffed by HBoon. (If anything, HBoon can come out a little ahead with DKiss sometimes.) So, that's a wash. Set spot heals aside and focus on what else happens in this trade-off..

HBoon enables super-powered heal party, but takes an extra skillslot. What would you use another skillslot for? Probably a prot.

And there you have it.

Uh, /thread.

To whoever was talking about RoF: the entire point is that it's extremely fast, and it negates damage; it buys time, at good efficiency, and is almost always available.

As for "bad" skills - call it what you want, but frankly, anything that isn't best is bad.

Age · Sep 27, 2008, 01:11 AM // 01:11

I would say what the party is calling at the time if they want a HB Monk then make it so.I still hear demand for it.

-Lotus- · Sep 27, 2008, 06:09 AM // 06:09

Quote:

Originally Posted by Age

I would say what the party is calling at the time if they want a HB Monk then make it so.I still hear demand for it.

this is because almost the entire PvE community is totally ignorant.

glacialphoenix · Sep 27, 2008, 07:52 PM // 19:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by Age

I would say what the party is calling at the time if they want a HB Monk then make it so.I still hear demand for it.

A goodly number of those people also think that there is no other monk bar besides HB.

credit · Sep 27, 2008, 07:58 PM // 19:58

HB is bad
WoH is good

What's there to argue about?

Trylo · Sep 27, 2008, 08:38 PM // 20:38

this thread should probably be closed before it entirely falls to the masses who dont read -_-

FoxBat · Sep 28, 2008, 01:27 AM // 01:27

Just find it hilarious that the consensus here is opposite of the HA meta. Of course, what are you going to do there between disease/hex stacks and half your team trapped in fire nukes.