Curse

Zodiac Meteor · Apr 20, 2009, 02:46 AM // 02:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tyla

Because prot sucks and redbarring is for pros.

Quote:

Originally Posted by some random noob that posted on my video

ur wasting a whole bar for 1 heal...
a HB or a WoH can do the same, except they can more aswell <3

/sigh as soon as they seen anything that isn't HB or WoH, OMFG FAILWAY NOOB!!!!!1!11!oneoneelevenone

He was posting on this ER healer. It's different and it works, the key word here is different.

As soon as pugs see something something works, IT WORKS. I blame ursan! and snow bunny!

Jeydra · Apr 20, 2009, 06:37 AM // 06:37

There's nothing wrong with HB in PvE. Personally I think everyone who feels the other way has simply been playing too much PvP. You can of course run two hybrids, which also works - you get Aegis at the expense of Heal Party. But you could also run Aegis on a midliner, which covers.

Quote:

Originally Posted by thinkingofaname

What people don't understand is that 1 HB monk = good, 2 HB monks = fail. As some people said, you need some kind of damage reduction before the red bar goes up, but the red bar goes up is just as important as well.

^This.

glacialphoenix · Apr 20, 2009, 06:58 AM // 06:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jeydra

There's nothing wrong with HB in PvE. Personally I think everyone who feels the other way has simply been playing too much PvP.

As has been mentioned by others in this thread, however, it means you have to trust someone else to prot - and, of course, finding someone/something like that can be problematic. Heroes, for example, can't prot well. On top of that, when it comes down to a 1 monk situation (4 person areas in HM, say) you'd probably pick a hybrid monk. Even with two real players on monk, I think I'd prefer hybrid for the reason that one can help catch stuff for the other if anything happens. If I lag, my partner can step in and push red bars up anyway. If my partner lags, I can step in. I don't have to go 'oh shit my partner's lagging, I don't have prot, HELP.'

I don't disagree that HB has its uses in PvE, but I don't think it was ever all that it was hyped up to be, so to speak. I think Ursan seriously overexaggerated the usefulness of it, because most Ursan teams relied on consets + the extra armour and hp, so they didn't feel the need for prot.

Jeydra · Apr 20, 2009, 07:09 AM // 07:09

Quote:

Originally Posted by glacialphoenix

As has been mentioned by others in this thread, however, it means you have to trust someone else to prot - and, of course, finding someone/something like that can be problematic. Heroes, for example, can't prot well. On top of that, when it comes down to a 1 monk situation (4 person areas in HM, say) you'd probably pick a hybrid monk.

Verily, I agree with you entirely. It's just that when you do have someone competent on prot, there's nothing wrong with HB.

dark4190 · Apr 30, 2009, 06:00 PM // 18:00

Every HB monk should have Prot Spirit if its HM. (assuming no one else has it, such as a prot monk or the other monk) (aka. just jumped into a pug group)
I agree that the monks should see each others builds when joining a group. eg.

Its important that you both don't spam patient spirit on the same guy or else it'll never end :P
Maybe they don't have heal party/glyph of lesser. So I know that I need to take care of party heals
They may have rebirth. I always bring Res Chant and equip my 40% chance to halves casting of healing + HB to res quickly and aviod wasting all my energy on a skill like rebirth.
The other monk may lack self-heals. When(if) the other monk gets a baddie on him, I know he needs my heals.

glacialphoenix · May 02, 2009, 01:54 AM // 01:54

You know - after pugging zquests on my monk: only received one request to run HB from a group, and that was by the other monk -- who was running full prot.

Most times I ask the other monk to ping, and we sync. Sometimes the other monk is already HB, but I've played with a monk who packed glimmer of light, one who played RC, a couple of Life Sheath and fellow WoH hybrid monks. Seems people don't really care about HB anymore as long as the monks work it out between themselves. Not complaining: am quite happy to be able to run the bar I like.

haggus71 · May 03, 2009, 06:04 PM // 18:04

Quote:

Originally Posted by dark4190

Every monk should have Prot Spirit

Period. Not having the most broken skill in the game, especially if it's in your primary, is just stupid.

As far as HB...they were doing the same back before WoH was buffed and LoD was nerfed. "Wat? no LoD??? STFU n00b!" They would rather see their health bars go back and forth like a stereo eq display than actually see them stay consistent above 50%. Yet, with the same logic, no one ever asks why someone doesn't have WoH, which I think is better than HB.

Yichi · May 04, 2009, 05:12 PM // 17:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by haggus71

Period. Not having the most broken skill in the game, especially if it's in your primary, is just stupid.

Actually Prot Spirit and RoF are 2 of the most balanced skills in the game.

DarkGanni · May 04, 2009, 10:43 PM // 22:43

It's not just HB but every other gimmick build. And yeah about prot spirit, I carry it like my home keys.

Also for me: UA > HB.

Nothing much can be done about it.

bhavv · May 10, 2009, 03:51 AM // 03:51

One rule for me from now on when taking Pug monks.

Must have [protective spirit].

I dont care what elite is used as long as it is a decent one (WoH, HB, UA, LS, PnH are are great), put regardless of how much you can push red bars up, you still need [protective spirit] to prevent insane spike damage just about everywhere in HM.

Elly bosses are everywhere. They wipe your party if you dont have [protective spirit].

UA > HB because it also affects protection spells, particularly [Spirit Bond]. If using UA, take [spirit bond] instead of [protective spirit].

But seriously, prism healing E/Rts >>> Healing only monks.

Aegis / Guardian are not needed when you're in my group because I effectively chain Aegis with either another Elly or Necro (easier with a hero, still completely manageable with another human).

Ells or Necros taking a couple of [Aegis] mean that monks dont have to worry about using the block skills themselves and have a slot freed up for a 5e spell such as [shielding hands] or [shield of absorption].

Both of those is usually very good to have, if you have two monks, one can take [spirit bond] and [shielding hands], the other [protective spirit] and [shield of absorption]. This is the correct pairing of the skills based on their recharge for optimal energy management.

glacialphoenix · May 10, 2009, 04:59 AM // 04:59

^

With guildies, I manual Tahlky + one other hero so I can chain Aegis properly.

Frankly, I don't expect eles to take Aegis. With some PUG eles, I'm surprised if they can target and nuke properly. Which is a pretty big problem for monks - if the damagers suck, the battles get drawn out a lot longer. I'd settle for people who can target. Aegis helps, sure, but it's really secondary for me. I'd rather you not take Aegis and kill that stupid Kournan Priest down there which NOBODY IS TARGETING despite me PINGING. Yes?

Wish Swiftdeath · May 10, 2009, 08:03 AM // 08:03

Given that WoH is likely to be nerfed there's a good chance HB will be used even more.

Xenomortis · May 10, 2009, 09:42 AM // 09:42

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wish Swiftdeath

Given that WoH is likely to be nerfed there's a good chance HB will be used even more.

Really? Nobody has complained about it being over-powered and the skill hasn't been altered for several years I don't think.

Chocobo1 · May 10, 2009, 10:56 AM // 10:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by Andurros

As a monk I run the build that I want to run. Not the build that someone else wants me to run. If I join a group and the first thing I see is monk ping your build.. ya know what.. I leave.. I am familiar with my build not theirs. They need me a whole lot more than I need them. We need to work together as a team but if I as a monk am gonna be told what to play, that is not the team for me.

Tried so hard not to come back to this but really,

/facepalm.

This is the mindset of so many monks, they believe that they are above everyone else in the team and that they get to call the shots. Incredibly frustrating. I was going to bold the annoying points, but by the time I got through I realized I had bolded everything.

Quote:

As a monk I run the build that I want to run.

You being a monk doesn't put you higher than us.

Quote:

Not the build that someone else wants me to run.

Gotta be open minded, especially when I have no idea how skilled you are or anything. If you ping me something that is utter trash, I'm going to want it to be changed. If you ping me something decent, maybe with a little varient then I'll probably let you keep it your way. Give and Take.

Quote:

If I join a group and the first thing I see is monk ping your build.. ya know what.. I leave..

Bet your the popular monk around Tyria.

Quote:

I am familiar with my build not theirs.

And we are familiar with our own builds and not yours!

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They need me a whole lot more than I need them.

Yay more "I am better than you" mindsets! I'd trust Koss healing me more than I'd trust 1/2 the PUG monks.

Quote:

We need to work together as a team but if I as a monk am gonna be told what to play, that is not the team for me.

Your right, teams that want to get you running the right build are definitly not the teams for you.

bhavv · May 10, 2009, 11:42 AM // 11:42

Ive always run the build that my team wants and make sure to synergise properly with other people of the same class before starting, whatever class I am playing as. If you have two monks in your party and both have exact identical skillbars, you are greatly wasting your efficiency.

I will not play with others, particularly monks without the decency to adapt their skillbar to the task at hand.

I can however only play LS prot, or WoH heal / hybrid on my monk because he has only gotten through factions, but I find both WoH and LS builds to be adaptable to everything in the game, wheras I definately want to get UA as well for PVE now.

HB is over rated, its biggest benefit is fast ressing, but often you get most HB monks carrying rebirth and not either one of [glyph of lesser energy] [resurrection chant] and you just think /facepalm, lern some synergy.

But ultimately, yes UA > HB with a normal res skill in PVE now.

f you are monk that leaves when people ask you to ping your bar, and suggest some re-skills, then you are likely one of the many monks that are easilly replaceable by heroes or a heal elly / necro, all of which would get the job done better. Getting a full human group with good skillbars and perfect synergy provides the best experience you can get from this game.

P.S, I really really have to test that Ether Renewal infuse build o.O

MuC · May 10, 2009, 01:35 PM // 13:35

Cuz they all fail. I usually go like: WoH, Dwayna's Kiss, Seed Of Life, Cure Hex/Dismiss Condition, PS, Aegis, GoLE and Rez Chant.
Sometimes i swap one of skills for like PI or one other PvE domag skill.

zwei2stein · May 10, 2009, 03:00 PM // 15:00

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zodiac Meteor

/sigh as soon as they seen anything that isn't HB or WoH, OMFG FAILWAY NOOB!!!!!1!11!oneoneelevenone

He was posting on this ER healer. It's different and it works, the key word here is different.

As soon as pugs see something something works, IT WORKS. I blame ursan! and snow bunny!

Casualties you suffered perfectly shown anti-HB point: redbarring up will not cut it. Even with 1/4 spell on zero recharge, you run into situaliton where you just can not save people.

You have ability to spam all those 1/4 cast, 10 energy prots on insane recharges; you should not get to situation where you have to redbar nearly whole party up.

PS: You did not really uphold your own challenge terms. Seriously, rojway? toon of prots and wards? Oh my!

Daian Namgnik · May 12, 2009, 04:41 AM // 04:41

Quote:

Originally Posted by Xenomortis

But it is very rare that a pure healer is actually advantageous.

A pure healer can finish the entire game with a high rate of success and appreciation if they know how to play and are in a group that knows how to position themselves. So, I would have to disagree with you.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Xenomortis

With Healer's Boon, you're going to be overhealing a lot, with just one person.

If you run Healer's Boon, you're going to be overhealing a lot more.

This is only true if the monk cannot manage a well-selected set of skills.

I think in PvE HB is the best elite monk skill. I've experimented with the other Divine and Heal elite skills with lesser success. But like with most builds it depends on situation, the party and skill of the individual.

glacialphoenix · May 12, 2009, 06:53 AM // 06:53

Quote:

I think in PvE HB is the best elite monk skill. I've experimented with the other Divine and Heal elite skills with lesser success. But like with most builds it depends on situation, the party and skill of the individual.

I find it too inflexible for my taste - to make it worthwhile, you have to bring a goodly amount of healing skills - less space for me to fit the prots I want in there. The other day I was PUGging Dasha Vestibule - other monk ran WoH, I went Light of Deliverance for the party heals and Breath of the Great Dwarf to counteract burning, found space for three prots. I wouldn't have had space to pack those in your standard HB bar, which just about demands GoLE.

For the record, the only time someone dropped below 50% was when a few people decided to stand in the flame jets. Maybe HB is great for healing, and it works if you have another monk you trust to do all the protting for you, but by and large I prefer the flexibility of going WoH hybrid (or LoD if necessary - hadn't used that skill in a long while.)

Xenomortis · May 12, 2009, 11:44 AM // 11:44

Quote:

Originally Posted by Daian Namgnik

A pure healer can finish the entire game with a high rate of success and appreciation if they know how to play and are in a group that knows how to position themselves. So, I would have to disagree with you.

Someone simply wanding through the game can finish it with a high success rate if they're in a suitable group.