Curse

JDRyder · Mar 21, 2010, 01:37 PM // 13:37

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Originally Posted by Desert Rose

Other players asks monks to bring those skills because they are the best options available and/or are easy to run.

Yea because those skills are op compared to other skills

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Nerfing skills because they're commonly used is nearly as stupid as buff every single skill to the level of the overpowered skills.

agreed, however I don't feel my skill buffs are OP, at least most of them. They're just balanced compared to the other monk skills.

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@JDRyder: Not every skill is designed to be utilized best by the primary profession, e.g. Healing Breeze is very useful on split eles.

guess they'll have to use restful breeze

Their monk skills imo monk should be the primary use, and if it works for other classes good for that skill. They nerfed skills monks use as a secondary all the time

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Also, your ideas don't promote more diversity, it will just change that the best option for x is no longer y, but now z

sure maybe in pugs, theres nothing we can do about that because pugs are elitist generally especially about monks even if they never played one. However at least they'll be more options for guild groups ect because these skills are actually viable now.

Just about every monk bar is the same, with maybe 1 skill difference even if you use different elites than the meta, why is it too much to ask to buff skills like release enchantments or supportive spirit so they're actually usable at least?

Rainstorm13 · Mar 21, 2010, 06:00 PM // 18:00

I can't tell if this is a joke or not. If it isn't, making every monk skill overpowered so that they can now compare to the few that already are (WoH, Patient, etc) is retarded.

Taolibai · Mar 21, 2010, 07:18 PM // 19:18

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Originally Posted by Rainstorm13

I can't tell if this is a joke or not. If it isn't, making every monk skill overpowered so that they can now compare to the few that already are (WoH, Patient, etc) is retarded.

that's a useful comment, you may as well have just said nothing.

i like a lot of the ideas the author has posted. i think it would be a relief not to have to turn to the same few builds all the time. too much cookie cutter = sad monk

Lanier · Mar 21, 2010, 10:31 PM // 22:31

I like a lot of the ideas the OP posted. IMO, monk wars are fun.

I definitely think that having a diverse set of skill options available is a good thing. This means you dont have to run the same boring build over and over again or feel guilty about using a sub-par build. However, you do have to be cautious not to overpower the skills. If you do, then you are only replacing the currently only-used skills with new only-used skills. What needs to be done is that skills need to be tweaked carefully so that they dont surpass the power of WoH, HB, UA, etc.

I am, however, going to disagree with the UA nerf. imo, UA isnt an overpowered skill and pugs only use it b/c they are bad and want frequent rezzes. imo, monks should prepare to keep people alive. They shouldnt devote an elite to fixing a mistake they made.

khezial tahr · Mar 25, 2010, 02:09 PM // 14:09

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lanier

I am, however, going to disagree with the UA nerf. imo, UA isnt an overpowered skill and pugs only use it b/c they are bad and want frequent rezzes. imo, monks should prepare to keep people alive. They shouldnt devote an elite to fixing a mistake they made.

I agree with UA not being overpowered. In fact I think it's perfectly fine. I understand the reason why people don't like it. But let's be honest, on a hero in a PUG, it can be worth it.

Neo Atomisk · Mar 25, 2010, 03:48 PM // 15:48

i noticed that all the skills that have ridiculously op descriptions also got 5-10 less en. extinguish is already a great skill, lol

JDRyder · Mar 26, 2010, 12:30 AM // 00:30

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Originally Posted by Neo Atomisk

extinguish is already a great skill, lol

sure but its rare its actually worth 15e or even taking along on your bar.

Lillium · Apr 10, 2010, 01:23 PM // 13:23

For the most part, these suggestions are completely absurd. Like the UA one is obviously sickly targeted at current (bad) meta's.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lanier

imo, monks should prepare to keep people alive. They shouldnt devote an elite to fixing a mistake they made.

Not to push UA, monks should be preparing to keep people alive, but you can do that just as well with non-elites (PS, SB, and SoA say "hi!"). HM spikes do happen and can't always be prot'ed against. Stuff happens.

Off of bad meta's that are hot rant topics, a couple of these did have a decent spirit of change:

I like the idea of changing Blessed Light; DF claims it deals with energy management but unless you consider extra healing that likely got pushed into an overheal flowing out of your arse good energy management... That's quite a nifty lie. The suggestion is OP'd badly though. Something more balanced might look like:
same as current cost/recharge, 2s cast
Heals (~75% of current amount) and removes 1...2...3 conditions and hexes. You gain 1 energy per condition or hex removed.
That would be far more in the spirit of light healing and actual energy management.

Sig. of devotion could use some love in a heal increase, at least in pve. 120 @r14 is a significant increase, even 10 less would make it more comparable to sig of rejuvenation.
Side note: This skill is decent as is for pvp, especially as a self heal. I seriously doubt anet would look at this skill for that reason (making the obtuse assumption they'd bother with any of the rest of these skills).

If extinguish removed 1...2...2 conditions (plus burning) instead of a flat 1... Hell, add 2 sec to its recharge to balance. The healing it does as is is fine, more so since it's in prot prayers.

ZB is already very powerful as is, if used correctly. Adding functionality to it would be moronic.

Convert Hexes desperately needs a functionality change past "remove all hexes", keeping the can not self target ofc. If foe could stack hexes properly (more than just two or three -.-) this would be worth 15e, or with the suggested 50% failure (against three moronic iboga's trying to cast the same hex at me).

Some skills I want to add:
Healing Seed is one of my favorite amusing skills, but could use a shorter recharge time. Even if only by 5 sec.

Supportive spirit is ... does useless even come close to describing it? Sure, in pvp it's a nice counter to a knock-lock, but most people I know don't even have this piece of trash. 5 energy would be a good start.

Renew life is great for my necro, but I don't really see monks use it. If it could be half cast range someone might actually die in our range to make this thing useful as a monk. I give the skill two thumbs up for having a nice idea to it though.

Reverse Hex: 5e, 1/2s cast, 12s recharge (directly off the wiki talk page, but I was thinking that before I tabbed over to it)
It takes away the originality of the skill to make it so much like the other generic hex removals, but at least it would see play? Slow the damage reduction so the top end drops by 10 if it's going to be a balance issue.

Shield of Deflection: 5e cast, and Either slight reduction of armor at high attribute or down to 60% block. Add 'target other ally'.

Skill changes aside, there are plenty of other things out there than the HB/UA/WoH expected trash, and it's not anet's job to buff/nerf non-meta skills just to force them into pve play. If you have a good build that you can heal/prot with intelligently and confidently tell a group that you refuse to run X or Y pvx wiki build they will usually take you along anyways for fear of having to waste 10+ mins more finding another damn monk. And if they didn't, screw them. Monks are high demand for parties and can usually find a better group very quickly.
I've run tons of different builds this way (including healing burst and boon sig) and seen other monks do exactly the same.