Curse

Tyla · May 11, 2008, 06:34 PM // 18:34

Sometimes energy management is not in skills, but in playstyle.

If someone was to run a full Dom bar (Diversion, Power Leak, all the stuffs), signets won't be as good. And the Dom bar would be more effective.

You may get 150 damage every 10 seconds, but then again, the interrupt is kinda weak because it doesn't effect all skills. The enchant removal is bad, because there are other options and those skills only mean trouble for a small amount of time.

You would get more out of 15 energy, nevermind an entire build. Cry of Pain. Interrupt and damage skill. Use a cheap hex for that.

On the SoM one, you've got 2 sub-par blood skills. (Bleeding is weak and the overall damage is kinda bad.) and the only good part of it is SoM and Plague Sending.

The interrupts would be better suited for a different skill, one that costs energy.

Maybe you get more armour, but switching to a defensive set gives enough armour. +health insignias all the way.

DarkSpirit · May 11, 2008, 07:04 PM // 19:04

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tyla

Sometimes energy management is not in skills, but in playstyle.

If someone was to run a full Dom bar (Diversion, Power Leak, all the stuffs), signets won't be as good. And the Dom bar would be more effective.

You may get 150 damage every 10 seconds, but then again, the interrupt is kinda weak because it doesn't effect all skills. The enchant removal is bad, because there are other options and those skills only mean trouble for a small amount of time.

You would get more out of 15 energy, nevermind an entire build. Cry of Pain. Interrupt and damage skill. Use a cheap hex for that.

The interrupts are not weak and some interrupt signets do interrupt all skills. Check out [[Signet of Distraction], [[Signet of Disruption], and [[Leech Signet]. The first two are Dom skills, and if you really need CoF then you can still put it in your bar. The last two can also interrupt non-spell skills.

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Maybe you get more armour, but switching to a defensive set gives enough armour. +health insignias all the way.

We had this argument before.

+health insignia is not always superior to +armor insignia which you keep claiming. In fact, in most PvE situations +armor saves you more health, even though +health helps with more attack types.

Besides, I can tell you from first hand experience that my shield wielding, 89 armor signet mesmer is more resilient than a mesmer with survivor insignia in GENERAL PvE settings. And how much does an artificer insignia cost versus a survivor insignia? Current cost of artificer insignia = 100gp.

Tyla · May 11, 2008, 08:16 PM // 20:16

Signet of Distraction only interrupts spells.

And maybe Artificer costs less, but Survivor is more beneficial.

Hugh Manatee · May 11, 2008, 08:52 PM // 20:52

I'd put the armor on the chest and legs, and the +hp on the face, hands and feet. If you do the math(I had the math done for me, dude convinced me..), +armor will protect you more against most sources of damage. It's just as easy to swap into a high HP set of weapons, get +60 or more health if you're getting hit with lifesteal or degen or one of the armor ignoring sources(dark, holy, chaos, obflame). You don't die when you run out of armor, you die when you run out of hp, so save the HP boosting for the emergency situation, sit in +armor till then.

DarkSpirit · May 11, 2008, 09:30 PM // 21:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tyla

Signet of Distraction only interrupts spells.

Dont just single out the 1 out of 3 signets when the other 2 can interrupt non-spell skills. I mentioned Signet of Distraction because, on a signet build, it can disable a spell for an even longer period of time than [[distracting shot] can and for 0e, without requiring a line-of-sight, arrow flight time (i.e. cant be dodged), and cant be affected by blind or blocking.

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And maybe Artificer costs less, but Survivor is more beneficial.

Dude, just do the math. Even if you dont count my shield and you just take the highest survivor insignia (i.e. the chest piece) against an artificer insignia on a 7-signet mesmer (1 slot for MoI), you are already comparing +15 hp to +21 armor. This is a big difference since every +40 armor reduces damage taken by about half and do you know how much a typical hit in HM is going to cost you in terms of hp?

Shuuda · May 12, 2008, 06:38 AM // 06:38

Quote:

Dude, just do the math. Even if you dont count my shield and you just take the highest survivor insignia (i.e. the chest piece) against an artificer insignia on a 7-signet mesmer (1 slot for MoI), you are already comparing +15 hp to +21 armor. This is a big difference since every +40 armor reduces damage taken by about half and do you know how much a typical hit in HM is going to cost you in terms of hp?

Dude, just realise that all that armour is pointless verse armour ignoring damage, which is where all the big damage in the game comes from (e.g: Axe spike)

DarkSpirit · May 12, 2008, 07:20 AM // 07:20

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shuuda

Dude, just realise that all that armour is pointless verse armour ignoring damage, which is where all the big damage in the game comes from (e.g: Axe spike)

How fortunate for us PvE mesmers then that armor is still useful.

Magikarp · May 12, 2008, 02:22 PM // 14:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shuuda

Dude, just realise that all that armour is pointless verse armour ignoring damage, which is where all the big damage in the game comes from (e.g: Axe spike)

while i dont agree with the guy you're using this post to respond to, he's right in the sense that there really isnt a lot of armor ignoring anything in pve, or at least in huge amounts... especially on a good team with your mesmer backlining..

p.s.

survivor runes ftw.

DarkSpirit · May 12, 2008, 03:56 PM // 15:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by Magikarp

while i dont agree with the guy you're using this post to respond to, he's right in the sense that there really isnt a lot of armor ignoring anything in pve, or at least in huge amounts... especially on a good team with your mesmer backlining..

p.s.

survivor runes ftw.

For a 7-signet mesmer, it is a comparison between a +21 armor insignia which costs 100gp against the +15hp insignia (for the chest) which costs about 800gp.

+21 armor reduces incoming damage to 69% of normal, which means about a 31% benefit. The best survivor insignia gives +15hp on the chest, the benefit from that amounts to about 2.5% to 3%, meaning that based on Armor Level alone, an artificer insignia, on a 7-signet mesmer, looks like a better choice.

However, there are situations that the +armor insignias do not give any benefit. Namely conditions and hexes that gives health degen and armor ignoring damages. Artificer insignia also demands a specific type of build in order to draw enough armor benefit from it while surivor insignia is more universal.

It mostly boils down to personal preference.

Tyla · May 12, 2008, 04:28 PM // 16:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by DarkSpirit

Dont just single out the 1 out of 3 signets when the other 2 can interrupt non-spell skills. I mentioned Signet of Distraction because, on a signet build, it can disable a spell for an even longer period of time than [[distracting shot] can and for 0e, without requiring a line-of-sight, arrow flight time (i.e. cant be dodged), and cant be affected by blind or blocking.

Alrighty.
Just asking, how can you dodge an arrow while standing still casting?

Oh yeah, D-Shot requires: Less investment of skills, can work against anything, is essentially 2 energy on your common Ranger's Expertise level, can be ran at 0 Expertise without dependance on the attribute for the actual disable.

And line of sight is a minimal obstruction if the Ranger, and your team understands how to pick a decent location.

I'm not going to continue the argument about insignias, because all it is to you is that they cost less.
Not only that, you have explained that this is supposedly an opinion.
Just because things cost less doesn't mean their efficiency is different.

DarkSpirit · May 12, 2008, 04:46 PM // 16:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tyla

Alrighty.
Just asking, how can you dodge an arrow while standing still casting?

Get behind an obstacle?

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I'm not going to continue the argument about insignias, because all it is to you is that they cost less.
Not only that, you have explained that this is supposedly an opinion.
Just because things cost less doesn't mean their efficiency is different.

I didnt want to go into the % benefit per gp argument. But even a +3 armor from a mesmer, with artificer insignia, carrying just a res signet as the only signet, gives a 5% damage reduction against elemental and physical damages.

In the end it is still a matter of personal preference. I just wanted to show you that survivor insignia is not always a better choice against armor insignia since we have been having this argument between +hp and +armor for a long time now.

Clarissa F · May 12, 2008, 04:49 PM // 16:49

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tyla

Alrighty.
Just asking, how can you dodge an arrow while standing still casting?

Oh yeah, D-Shot requires: Less investment of skills, can work against anything, is essentially 2 energy on your common Ranger's Expertise level, can be ran at 0 Expertise without dependance on the attribute for the actual disable.

And line of sight is a minimal obstruction if the Ranger, and your team understands how to pick a decent location.

I'm not going to continue the argument about insignias, because all it is to you is that they cost less.
Not only that, you have explained that this is supposedly an opinion.
Just because things cost less doesn't mean their efficiency is different.

Win. There's a reason it never leaves a ranger bar.

To the OP: I know everyone likes to be original, etc. Being innovative and good is one thing. Being original and bad is another. [skill]illusionary weapon[/skill] is mediocre/bad. Melee with a 60AL character is bad. A sin can get away with 70AL with spikes and speed, which you don't have. Stick to the strengths of your character, or create another profession that can melee better than you ever will. It is tough to be a good mesmer. Interrupts/timing are its core. If you can't do those, don't play it.

Tyla · May 12, 2008, 04:50 PM // 16:50

Quote:

Originally Posted by DarkSpirit

Get behind an obstacle?

YEAH BECAUSE THEY'RE REALLY GOING TO RUN AT THE SAME TIME AS CASTING?!

DarkSpirit · May 12, 2008, 07:43 PM // 19:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tyla

YEAH BECAUSE THEY'RE REALLY GOING TO RUN AT THE SAME TIME AS CASTING?!

There is no need to run, the AI can't detect if they are really hitting you or not and will continue to shoot against the obstacle.

Tyla · May 12, 2008, 07:47 PM // 19:47

Since when was this a discussion about heroes? Or even AI for that matter?

If it was AI, they would stand there. And not move, unless it's a H/H and flaggable.

If it was a human, they should be smart enough to move.

When things are casting, they can't move at the same time.

DarkSpirit · May 12, 2008, 07:51 PM // 19:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tyla

Since when was this a discussion about heroes? Or even AI for that matter?
.

The monster ranger AI would stupidly shoot at the obstacle if you are behind it and wouldn't seek for a clear line of sight. Isn't that what you are asking? So why should I need to keep running and casting?

Tyla · May 12, 2008, 07:53 PM // 19:53

And then again, there are very few monsters with line of sight interrupts. I'm talking about the player, not the stupidity of the AI that me, and several other players know about.

DarkSpirit · May 12, 2008, 07:56 PM // 19:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tyla

And then again, there are very few monsters with line of sight interrupts. I'm talking about the player, not the stupidity of the AI that me, and several other players know about.

I am talking about PvE. As a mesmer, you can make use of your terrain better, even avoiding getting shot at while dealing damage and interrupts at the same time.

Tyla · May 12, 2008, 07:59 PM // 19:59

Yeah, and as a Ranger you're almost never being targetted.

And by the way, PvE doesn't mean everything is AI. You are there too. And if it wasn't AI, it wouldn't be PvE, but PvP.

You never cease to amaze me, Dark.

And no, I'm not starting a Mesmer Vs. Ranger discussion.
Ranger's already have the upper hand in survivability, because of strong blocking stances and extra armour, comparable to that of a Warrior versus elemental damage.

Mesmers are SQUISHIES, will always be SQUISHIES, and no amount of extra armour will say otherwise. If you take the added armour off that and put it on something else, that something else will have the upper hand.

DarkSpirit · May 12, 2008, 08:02 PM // 20:02

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tyla

Yeah, and as a Ranger you're almost never being targetted.

You still can be targeted in PvE by monster AI if you dont have enough armor or hp relative to your other party members.

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And by the way, PvE doesn't mean everything is AI. You are there too. And if it wasn't AI, it wouldn't be PvE, but PvP.

PvE has alot to do with monster AI.

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You never cease to amaze me, Dark.

You are amazed too easily.

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Mesmers are SQUISHIES, will always be SQUISHIES, and no amount of extra armour will say otherwise. If you take the added armour off that and put it on something else, that something else will have the upper hand.

I wouldn't call my 89 armor mesmer a squishy, but whatever.

It is easier to get +hp nowadays due to vitae runes, with increased average hp most characters have nowadays, the +15hp from chest survivor is only a small percentage of the whole, so in this sense, a 60AL mesmer can do with more armor than with more hp in PvE. But that's just me.