Curse

DarkSpirit · Mar 29, 2008, 07:09 PM // 19:09

Me/Mo

FC: 12 + 1 + 1
Dom: 10 + 1
Inspiration: 8 + 1

Drain Enchantment
Power Spike
Power Drain
Cry of Frustration
Mantra of Recovery
Mistrust
Hex Eater Signet or Spiritual Pain (for more AoE damage)
Vengeance

[build box name="FC Interrupt Mesmer Hero" prof=Me/Mo fas=12+1+1 dom=10+1 ins=8+1][Drain Enchantment][Power Spike][Power Drain][Cry of Frustration][Mantra of Recovery][Mistrust][Hex Eater Signet][Vengeance][/build]

Template code: OQNDAsoDOEhLQGIH0AmejwdC

Gwen fast casts Vengeance to raise up fallen part members quickly (+25% damage bonus) and if they die again, they gain no further DP.

With MoR, Vengeance also recharges very quickly.

But if Vengeance is annoying you after the battle, just disable it with shift-click, then after everyone has been properly res, re-enable Vengeance.

Recommended Insignia: Sentry Insignia for the Chest and Legging and Survivor for the rest.

Variants:

Replace Power Spike with Power Lock
Replace Hex Eater Signet with Spiritual Pain for more damage.
Replace Vengeance with Resurrection Chant if you are playing with another human player or in places with enchant removal

miskav · Mar 29, 2008, 07:18 PM // 19:18

Ressurection Chant > Vengeance, even in this build.
The res would be fast enough, recharge fast enough, and doesn't have the downside of having to take extra time later to ressurect.

Overall, it's a nice build, similair to what my Gwen uses =).

DarkSpirit · Mar 29, 2008, 07:29 PM // 19:29

Quote:

Originally Posted by miskav

Ressurection Chant > Vengeance, even in this build.
The res would be fast enough, recharge fast enough, and doesn't have the downside of having to take extra time later to ressurect.

Overall, it's a nice build, similair to what my Gwen uses =).

Vengeance (4s cast, unlinked) brings party members back from the dead at FULL health and FULL energy and if they die again, no more DP. When they are up, they are ready to fight at FULL FORCE.

Resurrection Chant (6s cast, healing prayers) brings party members back from the dead at your current health (remember we are talking about a squishy mesmer who is probably under attack here), and 5..29% energy depending on your healing prayers attribute.

Vengeance > Resurrection Chant, if you need to res fast to push back the tide of battle. It is more useful in potential party-wipe situations.

Lord Xivor · Mar 29, 2008, 07:32 PM // 19:32

Dude, 60 second recharge time. If the guy dies again, your party is owned.

DarkSpirit · Mar 29, 2008, 07:34 PM // 19:34

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lord Xivor

Dude, 60 second recharge time. If the guy dies again, your party is owned.

Actually 30s, without MoR, because Vengeance has been buffed. Yes but so is Death Pact Signet for the other way round, for DPS, if that party member dies within a long 120 seconds, so do you. Except vengeance gives full health and full energy while DPS resurrects target party member with your current Health and 15..83% Energy.

N1ghtstalker · Mar 29, 2008, 07:43 PM // 19:43

simple
res with vengeance and fight the battle out
after the battle you die and get a decent res

DarkSpirit · Mar 29, 2008, 07:46 PM // 19:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by N1ghtstalker

simple
res with vengeance and fight the battle out
after the battle you die and get a decent res

That's right.

This is why I said:

Quote:

if Vengeance is annoying you after the battle, just disable it with shift-click, then after everyone has been properly res, re-enable Vengeance.

Sword · Mar 29, 2008, 07:52 PM // 19:52

before i had r6 max i used to run 6 ele heroes for HM stuff with another human

basically ran all SF eles (maybe sub in one MM here and there) with /Me 4 of which used pdrain and leech sig and 2 with 1 ward and 1 int each

basically the point is most hero builds can easily be changed to /Me for ints and its really unnceessary to run a purely int mes when u can have a a few ints on all ur heroes.

DarkSpirit · Mar 29, 2008, 08:03 PM // 20:03

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sword

basically the point is most hero builds can easily be changed to /Me for ints and its really unnceessary to run a purely int mes when u can have a a few ints on all ur heroes.

It is not a pure interrupt build but yes, it is 3 out of 8 for interrupts. Interrupts tend to have long recharge, especially a good interrupt like CoF (which is AoE skill (not just spell) based interrupt and recently buffed) and PDrain, this is where MoR comes in.

Secondary mesmers do not have the fast casting and MoR to optimize their interrupts as well as the primary mesmers. Besides, I am sure they are better at other things like damage for instance?

Do you really want to waste skill slots on your SF ele for interrupts? So let the mesmers do what they do best and nukers do what they do best.

Super Igor · Mar 29, 2008, 08:10 PM // 20:10

Epic idea DarkSpirit, my +1 goes to u and, Mes heroes ftw.

~Super Igor

~

Boogz · Mar 29, 2008, 11:50 PM // 23:50

I'd never ever take vengeance, i'd say use flesh of my flesh, the hero will use it fast and it doesn't has recharge time, or ressurection chant, drop mistrust and hex eater signet, put energy burn and empathy

Antithesis · Mar 29, 2008, 11:52 PM // 23:52

Vengeance is like masturbating with a cheese grater...slightly amusing but mostly painful.

Trvth Jvstice · Mar 30, 2008, 12:19 AM // 00:19

Try this Interrupt Hero build.

[skill]Cry of Frustration[/skill] [skill]Power Drain[/skill] [skill]Power Block[/skill] [wiki]Power Lock[/wiki] [skill]Power Spike[/skill] [skill]Signet of Disruption[/skill] [skill]Leech Signet[/skill] [skill]Flesh of My Flesh[/skill]

This is what my Gwen uses and it works great.

Coloneh · Mar 30, 2008, 03:29 AM // 03:29

I dont see the point of having a mesmer primary. a necro could do this (minus the vengance thing, but thats stupid anyways) with infinite energy

cellardweller · Mar 30, 2008, 04:12 AM // 04:12

Areas without enchant removal -> no chance of death -> vengence useless
Areas with enchant removal -> vengence gets stripped -> vengence useless

DarkSpirit · Mar 30, 2008, 06:33 AM // 06:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by Boogz

I'd never ever take vengeance, i'd say use flesh of my flesh, the hero will use it fast and it doesn't has recharge time, or ressurection chant, drop mistrust and hex eater signet, put energy burn and empathy

Flesh of my flesh is terrible. It weakens your caster by half of his current life and even those you raise from the dead doesn't gain full life and full energy. I rather take res signet if I want to use flesh of my flesh. It doesn't matter if it has no recharge time because you are limited by your own health. The hero would just sac herself to death fasting casting FOMF over and over, to res party members that are getting weaker and weaker. Even if by some miracle that your mesmer hero is left alone by the monsters, and if they only attack your resurrected party members, you would still lose and die. FOMF, on a fast caster, is a great way to accumulate DP fast for your fallen party members, in a losing battle, until your fast caster finally sacs herself to death.

A newly resurrected hero or hench, with full life and energy from vengeance, would immediately start attacking or healing using his/her skills, there is no delay or wait for energy to recharge. That is very important when your party is in a losing situation. Often, resurrected heroes/henchies do not have enough energy to fight back or heal and have to just stand there and tank attacks which causes them to die again with more DP. Res chant doesn't give full life and energy either. As long as the full life/energy resurrected hero/hench can last 20s, and Gwen survives, another can be resurrected all over again without further DP or loss of life and energy. I wouldn't have believed in the effectiveness of MoR-vengeance if I have not tried it out myself in HM, and seen it turn losing battles around. The 25% damage bonus is nice, plus with MoR, you have a 10s window to cast a second vengeance while the first one is still on.

Energy burn and empathy = single-targeting spells. Good for PvP spiking and Assassin Promise builds, but not too useful for general PvE when facing more than 1 monster.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Trvth Jvstice

Try this Interrupt Hero build.

[skill]Cry of Frustration[/skill] [skill]Power Drain[/skill] [skill]Power Block[/skill] [wiki]Power Lock[/wiki] [skill]Power Spike[/skill] [skill]Signet of Disruption[/skill] [skill]Leech Signet[/skill] [skill]Flesh of My Flesh[/skill]

This is what my Gwen uses and it works great.

Already did, I hate it.

Power Block is an expensive, overrated, probably more useful in PvP than in PvE interrupt. The purpose is not to prevent 1 particular monster from ever casting again since if I want to do that, I may as well use a BHA ranger interupter with daze! The purpose is to get some advantage by interrupting (Power Spike = damage, Power Drain = free energy, CoF = AoE interrupt + AoE damage).

Leech Signet is epic fail for heroes. Heroes hardly use it and they dont seem to use it as a skill interrupt, maybe as a spell interrupt to get the free energy and the recharge time sucks (30s) unless maybe if you use mantra of inscriptions and/or keystone signet. I used to have it in my Artificer build, thinking it is a wonderful signet, then realized (along with many others who tried it) that is hardly used by heroes in the first place, so I had to take it out. Similar recharge problem with Signet of Disruption (20s). I have already talked about Flesh of my Flesh above.

Quote:

Originally Posted by cellardweller

Areas without enchant removal -> no chance of death -> vengence useless
Areas with enchant removal -> vengence gets stripped -> vengence useless

I admit that vengeance has a weakness with enchant removal since it is an enchantment. But the most common enchant removal in PvE, shatter enchantment, is a long 25s. With MoR, I can recharge vengeance after only 20s. Death while under vengeance incurs no DP anyway. Furthermore, you are also assuming that there will be no other cover enchant on the resurrected ally, with another enchantment and full life, they can probably take the damage from shatter better.

If you are worried about enchant stripping then replace vengeance with a res sig or res chant especially in areas that have enchant stripping. What I like most about res chant is that it has half the recharge time of vengeance. What I dont like about it is, it doesn't give a good energy return on your resurrected target especially for low healing prayers, and it is half-ranged so your mesmer has to run in and be close to danger for 3 seconds.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Coloneh

I dont see the point of having a mesmer primary. a necro could do this (minus the vengance thing, but thats stupid anyways) with infinite energy

Why would a necro work this build better? MoR is a fast casting attribute skill and a necro, with 0 FC, would have a MoR that only lasts 5s which leaves you 15s without it, per recharge.

Also considering the fact that interrupt spells are not spammed by heroes since the opportunities to interrupt have to actually present themselves, this build would not be energy intensive. If it is not energy intensive, I dont see why it would work better even with infinite energy, but with 0 fast casting, for an interrupt build.

Seems like after sabway, some people are thinking if it is a viable PvE hero, it MUST be a Necro and nothing else.

Trvth Jvstice · Mar 30, 2008, 01:30 PM // 13:30

I'm pretty sure that if your entire team is dying, the Mesmer will be one of the first to go. Flesh of My Flesh - with Fast Casting - happens very quickly. Save it for when an important Team mate dies. As far as the build I posted from Pvxwiki, when I have Gwen in my party, she is interrupting spells like a machine gunner. Heroes are So good at these twitch skills.

The argument about who is the better interrupter - Mes or Ranger - will never be settled - let it rest.

Coloneh · Mar 30, 2008, 02:51 PM // 14:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by DarkSpirit

Why would a necro work this build better? MoR is a fast casting attribute skill and a necro, with 0 FC, would have a MoR that only lasts 5s which leaves you 15s without it, per recharge.

Also considering the fact that interrupt spells are not spammed by heroes since the opportunities to interrupt have to actually present themselves, this build would not be energy intensive. If it is not energy intensive, I dont see why it would work better even with infinite energy, but with 0 fast casting, for an interrupt build.

why take MoR? why do you need fast casting to interrupt things?

Quote:

Seems like after sabway, some people are thinking if it is a viable PvE hero, it MUST be a Necro and nothing else.

this has nothing to do with sabway, mesmers sucked way before sabway. the only real reason this is a mesmer is to be different and because of some notion that mesmer heros are godly at interrupting. other heroes are just as crazy with interrupts, but they get a useful primary attribute to.

DarkSpirit · Mar 30, 2008, 05:08 PM // 17:08

Quote:

Originally Posted by Trvth Jvstice

I'm pretty sure that if your entire team is dying, the Mesmer will be one of the first to go.

Not really. Mhenlo seems to be more targeted than my Gwen. My Gwen has vitae/vigor runes and insignia, Mhenlo doesn't and being a monk you can expect him to be a more tasty target to the monsters.

And when Mhenlo goes down, he is up again in 2s with max energy to heal and if he is targeted again and dies, he gains no DP because of vengeance. Even if you are right and that Gwen dies first, then wouldn't this res discussion become moot anyway?

Quote:

Flesh of My Flesh - with Fast Casting - happens very quickly. Save it for when an important Team mate dies.

Flesh of My Flesh has the same casting time as vengeance. Flesh of My Flesh takes the remaining life that your mesmer has and split it between her and her resurrected target each time she uses it. This means, even with her fast casting, her resurrected targets get weaker and weaker. Translated it means it is easier and easier to accumulate DP for your dead party members, plus more and more likely for your mesmer to die as she sac herself by half life each time. Add that to the fact that her resurrected party members have a low energy upon res, without a good investment in restoration, and they sit there tanking hits if they cant cast, with hp that has been halved and halved, it is not going to be a pretty sight.

Res chant is a better res than FOMF. Under MoR, it only has a 10s recharge time. Even Death Pact Signet (another restoration res) is a better res than FOMF.

Quote:

As far as the build I posted from Pvxwiki, when I have Gwen in my party, she is interrupting spells like a machine gunner. Heroes are So good at these twitch skills.

Yes they make good interrupters.

Quote:

The argument about who is the better interrupter - Mes or Ranger - will never be settled - let it rest.

In PvE, to shutdown just 1 particular caster I actually consider a ranger to be better, if the ranger is placed well and BHA hits. Even normal bow attacks would interrupt a dazed target. But the old BHA->Epidemic->Volley combination doesn't work well with heroes AI (I tested that). The ranger hero just uses volley most of the time and hardly uses Epidemic.

With CoF, mesmer heroes can provide an AoE interrupt that actually works, and MoR brings its recharge time down to about 10s. Power Drain gives a nice energy return and Power Spike gives a nice single target damage. If I want to totally shutdown a single target, I can just bring Power Return, which doesn't take up the elite slot.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Coloneh

why take MoR? why do you need fast casting to interrupt things?

Why MoR? MoR reduces the recharge time of all her spells by 33%. This means she is ready with CoF (AoE interrupt) every 10s instead of 15, she is ready with Power Drain (gives nice energy bonus) every 13s instead of 20, etc.

Why do I need fast casting for interrupts? Fast casting allows the mesmer to interrupt spells with as short as a quarter casting time (e.g. Reversal of Fortune, Reversal of Damage, etc.). Notice that many of the interrupt spells have only a quarter (0.25s) casting time themselves. This may not be as relevant to human interrupters because of lag and slow reflexes but it is more important for hero interrupters without lag and super fast reflexes.

With 14 FC, her interrupt spells cast in 0.13s. Giving her a chance to actually interrupt quarter casting time spells.

Quote:

this has nothing to do with sabway, mesmers sucked way before sabway. the only real reason this is a mesmer is to be different and because of some notion that mesmer heros are godly at interrupting. other heroes are just as crazy with interrupts, but they get a useful primary attribute to.

Most people just do not know how to use mesmers. I have been playing since GW started and let me tell you that before heroes came, many people even think that interrupts are useless in PvE so most PUGs didnt even want an interrupter. Look at what happens now? When more people started adding interrupt skills to their hero builds, they began to understand the value of interrupts in PvE. But many people still do not understand the finer points of interrupting so they wouldn't know why a primary mesmer, with MoR and fast cast, makes a better interrupter than a secondary mesmer.

Splitisoda · Mar 30, 2008, 05:17 PM // 17:17

Quote:

Originally Posted by Antithesis

Vengeance is like masturbating with a cheese grater...slightly amusing but mostly painful.

MY ROFLCOPTER GOES
SOI SOI SOI SOI SOI