Curse

Magikarp · Jul 17, 2008, 04:10 PM // 16:10

Quote:

Originally Posted by DarkSpirit

I read the posts of many people like you before. PvE mesmers MUST play shutdown no matter what. PvE mesmers MUST play an interrupter no matter what. All other mesmer builds no matter how effective they are in HM, are irrelevant and you shut your ears and mind to all other build ideas.

Sorry to say this, but that is just extreme narrow-mindedness.

I have to remind you what do you think the goal of PvE is? To me, the goal of PvE is very simple, to clear the area as fast as possible with the least amount of casualties. And before you start by saying "oh but that is not a mesmer's job, that is an Ele's job", I will say that it is possible for a mesmer to clear HM areas faster than an ele.

If your goal is to clear the area slowly just because you are playing your mesmer, so you can say: "hey looky here, see how skillful I am please give me your approval everyone, I am not button mashing, I can play with the monsters by shuting that one down and interrupting this one here and there" then I feel sorry for you. You are not using your mesmer as effectively as you can, in PvE.

I dont play my mesmers because I think it is a weak class so that I can show off my gamer skills to others. I play my mesmers, ever since GW started, because I know that they can be made to be effective even though they are not the strongest pve class.

ele's job? what? i don't think i've played with an ele on my team since before NF came out minus a warder in some HM areas once or twice. also, if you knew anything about mesmers, is that after SS skills came out, CoP, SY!, and TNTF! are the 3 strongest skills in the game, meaning mesmers aren't even close to being anything what you said in the last chunk of junk you spouted.

also, what the hell are you talking about? when did i ever say anything about playing slow, playing shutdown in pve, or anything remotely according to what you said? fyi, i play CoP/CoF in pve 90% with either esurge or AP, so if you could please explain a more powerful pve mesmer build, go right at it, but it doesn't exist. hell, i even echo CoP sometimes for the added damage.

the difference is that i don't run in spamming it and screaming my head off like most of you imply pve consist of. i actually interrupt key skills and deal damage at the same time DERRRR.

so annoying how the majority of gwg members think they know just every damn thing. effective playing/timing>EVERYTHING IN THE GAME ESPECIALLY SPAMMING

DarkSpirit · Jul 17, 2008, 04:14 PM // 16:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by Magikarp

so annoying how the majority of gwg members think they know just every damn thing. effective playing/timing>EVERYTHING IN THE GAME ESPECIALLY SPAMMING

And why do you keep accusing us of spamming skills?
There is alot more thinking involved to kill fast and safe for a mesmer.

sixofone · Jul 17, 2008, 04:19 PM // 16:19

Quote:

Originally Posted by Magikarp

effective playing/timing>everything in the game especially spamming

That includes quick kill approaches, btw. Even approaching PvE as a "kill everything as fast as possible"-fest, I think you still take time to target strategically. Kill the monk! Kill the Ele's! Just, do it quickly.

Magikarp · Jul 17, 2008, 04:24 PM // 16:24

Quote:

Originally Posted by DarkSpirit

And why do you keep accusing us of spamming skills?
There is alot more thinking involved to kill fast and safe for a mesmer.

according to Upier, who you seemingly bandwagoned with, and i quote:

"To put this into as simple words as possible:
If you are thinking - you are not killing.

That's the reality of PvE."

thus my reasoning as to how i feel you guys lack playing skill.

DarkSpirit · Jul 17, 2008, 04:33 PM // 16:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by Magikarp

according to Upier, who you seemingly bandwagoned with, and i quote:

"To put this into as simple words as possible:
If you are thinking - you are not killing.

That's the reality of PvE."

thus my reasoning as to how i feel you guys lack playing skill.

And I dont usually agree with upier, for some reason, if you have read other threads that we were both in. But at least he has the gist of what the goal of PvE is.

JDRyder, on the other hand, who you seemingly bandwagoned with, has a very narrow view of how a pve mesmer SHOULD be played without keeping that goal in mind:

Quote:

Originally Posted by JDRyder

Mesmer w/o at least 2 or 3 interrupt/shut down skills is like a War with out IAS

Quote:

Originally Posted by JDRyder

yes there is many ways to do things but interrupting/shut down is to mesmer as healing is to monk

Magikarp · Jul 17, 2008, 04:49 PM // 16:49

Quote:

Originally Posted by DarkSpirit

And I dont usually agree with upier, for some reason, if you have read other threads that we were both in. But at least he has the gist of what the goal of PvE is.

JDRyder, on the other hand, who you seemingly bandwagoned with, has a very narrow view of how a pve mesmer SHOULD be played without keeping that goal in mind:

i specifically said i don't shutdown outside of collective aoe interrupts such as CoP (one of the best skills in the game), and CoF (the best interrupt for pve in the game before CoP), and possibly power spike. mistrust is fine sometimes, and that more-or-less sums up my bar as far as utility. the rest is Surge/AP/MoR, maybe arcane, and a few supportive skills like hex, enchantment removal, drain, feast, or even a snare or ward.

please explain where or how i even implied that shutdown and "slow" killing is what i was shooting for as a goal.

-Lotus- · Jul 17, 2008, 05:00 PM // 17:00

fast casting: no useful effect in PvE.* Combined with skills not being that much more useful at 12+ attributes and the primary armor level being 60, nothing makes the mesmer a better primary profession than other casters. mesmer skills are better off used on a secondary mesmer.

*of course casting faster is useful, but when compared with other primary attributes effects (even spawning) and skills (that means strength) it is almost totally useless.

Magikarp · Jul 17, 2008, 05:18 PM // 17:18

Quote:

Originally Posted by -Lotus-

fast casting: no useful effect in PvE.* Combined with skills not being that much more useful at 12+ attributes and the primary armor level being 60, nothing makes the mesmer a better primary profession than other casters. mesmer skills are better off used on a secondary mesmer.

*of course casting faster is useful, but when compared with other primary attributes effects (even spawning) and skills (that means strength) it is almost totally useless.

sigh.

The message you have entered is too short. Please lengthen your message to at least 12 characters.

DarkSpirit · Jul 17, 2008, 05:44 PM // 17:44

Play an interrupt/shutdown mesmer for all I care, but interrupt/shutdown shouldn't be the ONLY way to play a mesmer. And I would disagree with anyone who says "Mesmer w/o at least 2 or 3 interrupt/shut down skills is like a War with out IAS".

Magikarp · Jul 17, 2008, 05:48 PM // 17:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by DarkSpirit

Play an interrupt/shutdown mesmer for all I care, but interrupt/shutdown shouldn't be the ONLY way to play a mesmer. And I would disagree with anyone who says "Mesmer w/o at least 2 or 3 interrupt/shut down skills is like a War with out IAS".

and i didnt say that, so direct your comments towards someone else please, and stick to the point.

DarkSpirit · Jul 17, 2008, 05:49 PM // 17:49

Quote:

Originally Posted by Magikarp

and i didnt say that, so direct your comments towards someone else please, and stick to the point.

What makes you think I was referring to you?

upier · Jul 17, 2008, 06:08 PM // 18:08

Quote:

Originally Posted by Magikarp

so annoying how the majority of gwg members think they know just every damn thing. effective playing/timing>EVERYTHING IN THE GAME ESPECIALLY SPAMMING

Why would I need timing in a game where I can pretty much keep a foe KDed until it dies?
I mean why not kill it if I can?
And if I can kill it fast - why shouldn't I do that?
And why shouldn't I do that over and over again?

JDRyder · Jul 17, 2008, 08:30 PM // 20:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by DarkSpirit

You are over emphasizing mesmer interrupt. I like interrupts but I wouldn't say it is as essential to a mesmer build as healing is to monk.

This is probably OT, but daze is the uber pve interrupt condition nowadays and a ranger has better interrupting capabilities than a mesmer so why do you insist on playing the second fiddle? In any case, we can argue that point in another long thread.

dazed only works on 1 target and unless your running a FD mesmer. epidemic is a joke imo cause casters are almost never next to each other even in pve

Quote:

Originally Posted by DarkSpirit

Ele nuking is different. Ele has slow casting but devastating AoE elemental skills, while a mesmer use armor ignoring skills.

not really, eles are still better at it and with MB/SF the longest cast your going is from fire ball or RI

Quote:

Originally Posted by DarkSpirit

I read the posts of many people like you before. PvE mesmers MUST play shutdown no matter what. PvE mesmers MUST play an interrupter no matter what. All other mesmer builds no matter how effective they are in HM, are irrelevant and you shut your ears and mind to all other build ideas.

Sorry to say this, but that is just extreme narrow-mindedness.

dont think any 1 said that, its what mesmers are made for and saying something like that is saying wars dont always always have to be melee, but you can still do a FD, fragility, witch works good imo and its not shut down

Quote:

Originally Posted by DarkSpirit

I have to remind you what do you think the goal of PvE is? To me, the goal of PvE is very simple, to clear the area as fast as possible with the least amount of casualties. And before you start by saying "oh but that is not a mesmer's job, that is an Ele's job", I will say that it is possible for a mesmer to clear HM areas faster than an ele.

gone over this before full damage is something for pugs you dont really need a sh*t ton of damage in pve cause its not all going to be fully used and its just not needed. 2 eles is all you need in with 1 or 2 wars for damage the other 4 team slots are better used for 2 defense players and 2 monks

Quote:

Originally Posted by DarkSpirit

If your goal is to clear the area slowly just because you are playing your mesmer, so you can say: "hey looky here, see how skillful I am please give me your approval everyone, I am not button mashing, I can play with the monsters by shuting that one down and interrupting this one here and there" then I feel sorry for you. You are not using your mesmer as effectively as you can, in PvE.

no your clearing it just as fast if you use the team set up i like to use "3-4 damage 2defense 2 monks and maybe 1 support rit if only 3 damage" lets run this down in numbers again ...

Team with 6 damage dealers
player 1 does 400 damage in AoE area ranged
player 2 does 300 damage in AoE area ranged
player 3 does 200 damage in AoE area ranged
player 4 does 100 damage in AoE area ranged
player 5 does 50 damage in AoE area ranged
player 6 does 0 damage in AoE area ranged
player 7 monk
player 8 monk
Team takes 1500 damage, this is about how the full damage team works out after you add up on who did what, Just look as player 1 as the guy that cast 1st, player 2 the 2nd etc

Team with 3damage dealers
player 1 does 200 melee damage and area KDs with earth shaker
player 2 does 400 damage in AoE area range
player 3 does 300 damage in AoE area range
player 4 interrupts 4 ele spells
player 5 weakens all NPC melee
player 6 Adds 200 AoE damage to player 1 "making 400" with using things like splinter weapon
player 7 monk
player 8 monk
Team takes 500 damage, You still doing as much damage but most of it is not wasted

In ascalon-LA non hard mod is where things die before a mesmer can be of most use, not lvl 20 areas

Quote:

Originally Posted by DarkSpirit

I dont play my mesmers because I think it is a weak class so that I can show off my gamer skills to others. I play my mesmers, ever since GW started, because I know that they can be made to be effective even though they are not the strongest pve class.

Yes they do feel a little weak but they are not. Interrupts and mesmer hexes help a lot more than you think. I use to just run 2 wars 4 eles and monks but after running the numbers in my head and seeing how many times id be in the middle of casting and the target die wasting my AoE or w/e, I saw that mesmer, necros, rits etc are more useful to have than full DPS and that the damage i had was not needed to clear areas fast

DarkSpirit · Jul 17, 2008, 08:39 PM // 20:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by JDRyder

dazed only works on 1 target and unless your running a FD mesmer, and epidemic is a joke imo cause casts are almost never next to each other even in pve

But they do sometimes.

Quote:

not really, eles are still better at it and with MB/SF than the longest cast your going is from fire ball or RI

There is such a thing called "Armor".

Quote:

Yes they do feel a little weak but they are not. Interrupts and mesmer hexes help a lot more than you think. I use to just run 2 wars 4 eles and monks but after running the numbers in my head and seeing how many times id be in the middle of casting and the target die wasting my AoE or w/e, I saw that mesmer, necros, rits etc are more useful to have than full DPS and that the damage i had was not needed to clear areas fast

That is not the case nowadays, you are stuck in the past, the game has changed and moved on. With the new skills and new PvE skills, a mesmer can nuke faster than a target can be effectively shutdown, even in HM.

With a good Discord heroes team, sometimes I can barely get AP in before the target dies in HM and look, I dont even need to use an Ele to nuke. Goodluck with your shutdown and getting ready with your Power Drain while waiting for the target to cast a spell.

JDRyder · Jul 17, 2008, 09:00 PM // 21:00

yep, but mesmers interrupts always hit

But i dont feel it makes as much difference. Damage that mesmer does by-passes armor "that owns" and the ele that can not by-pass armor but can do it more. Sure you can use mesmer as a nuker but i think eles are still better at it even tho they cant by-pass armor

I dont play mesmer for damage, if i wanted to do damage id use my War, and i feel interrupts are a needed in HM cause you saving your energy and will make your team more stable and getting to your goal faster.

Even tho the team build i like to use will finish just as fast if not faster as over DPS team builds, I stll like to run team builds that may finish slower. When did the game become all about speed and less about fun? Running off the wall builds that you've made up with your own creativity is really fun imo.

DarkSpirit · Jul 17, 2008, 09:36 PM // 21:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by JDRyder

yep, but mesmers interrupts always hit

But i dont feel it makes as much difference. Damage that mesmer does by-passes armor "that owns" and the ele that can not by-pass armor but can do it more. Sure you can use mesmer as a nuker but i think eles are still better at it even tho they cant by-pass armor

Can Eles do it better in HM, with higher level monsters, higher armor, and AoE scattering? Not necessarily. I am telling you that with the new super powered armor ignoring damage skills, mesmers and necros can nuke just as effectively (if not more) in HM.

Quote:

I dont play mesmer for damage, if i wanted to do damage id use my War, and i feel interrupts are a needed in HM cause you saving your energy and will make your team more stable and getting to your goal faster.

Even tho the team build i like to use will finish just as fast if not faster as over DPS team builds, I stll like to run team builds that may finish slower. When did the game become all about speed and less about fun? Running off the wall builds that you've made up with your own creativity is really fun imo.

Fun is subjective, what is fun for one may not be fun for another. I find fast cast nuking, to be fun too. Which is a different kind of fun from playing an attacking warrior.

That is your playstyle, there are many viable mesmer builds now, including nuking. Sometimes the best defense is a strong offense, if you nuke them fast, you wont be taking as much damage and less pressure on your monks.

-Lotus- · Jul 17, 2008, 11:26 PM // 23:26

JD, is there some reason for keeping your enemies alive and shutdown that i dont get? you dont seem to understand that dead enemies are very effectively shut down.

JDRyder · Jul 17, 2008, 11:30 PM // 23:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by -Lotus-

JD, is there some reason for keeping your enemies alive and shutdown that i dont get? you dont seem to understand that dead enemies are very effectively shut down.

read back a few post

Quote:

Originally Posted by around

Fast Casting isn't 'bad', it's just not up to standard.

SR is just plain nutty. Free energy every time something dies? YES PLZ.
Expertise is the same.
Divine Favor heals for free.
Crit Strikes again gives you free energy and boosts your damage to boot.

Notice a trend here?

we alrdy went over this pages ago, FC is just as useful cause mesmers dont need energy, heals etc so giving them something like that is a wast, FC works really well and it brings something different

Quote:

Originally Posted by DarkSpirit

And I dont usually agree with upier, for some reason, if you have read other threads that we were both in. But at least he has the gist of what the goal of PvE is.

JDRyder, on the other hand, who you seemingly bandwagoned with, has a very narrow view of how a pve mesmer SHOULD be played without keeping that goal in mind:

Quote:

Originally Posted by JDRyder

Running off the wall builds that you've made up with your own creativity is really fun imo.

I never said don't run AP, fire nuker or w/e, i said it was more helpful and effective, dont mix the 2. Hell you can run a Fire nuker on a warrior "rly dumb imo" but its still more effective from a ele

l8 edit went over a few post i didnt have time for at the time

-Lotus- · Jul 18, 2008, 08:05 AM // 08:05

im not reading your walls of fail. if you have a point make it. if you dont stop de-railing this thread.

JDRyder · Jul 18, 2008, 08:09 AM // 08:09

Quote:

Originally Posted by -Lotus-

im not reading your walls of fail. if you have a point make it. if you dont stop de-railing this thread.

let me put it this way if you had to do 2000 damage to kill every thing why take 10,000 damage?