Curse

The Meth · Aug 28, 2008, 06:38 PM // 18:38

IMO necrosis is a weak skill. You have to be locked into a secondary profession, give up a PvE skill slot, and satisfy a condition (granted its an easy condition, but its still relevant) and in the end you are essentially just flare spamming for about 30-50% more damage. With Cry of Pain having such a quick recharge now there's really no reason not to either echo it or use AP and spam it instead.

Visions of regret is quite nice though, start out any battle by throwing it on an off target and that target will pretty much always die half way into the battle without just from that skill. The only problem I see is that with it AND empathy AND pain inverter AND backfire you spend a lot of time casting those hexes when its really more effective just to throw one or two of those down and start CoP spamming. Thats why backfire doesn't need to be on there, and empathy is mostly optional. There just aren't 4 enemies that should be living the 15+ seconds it takes to cast all 4 hexes and watch them kill themselves.

P A L P H R A M O N D · Aug 28, 2008, 06:54 PM // 18:54

Quote:

Originally Posted by sixofone

[visions of regret] is good. It's the Mesmer version of [spiteful spirit], which should have been a Mesmer skill to begin with!

It's better in some ways than SS. At least, I think it is - some people disagree.

And, it gives a Mesmer one more AoE hex in their arsenal. For PvE, that's a blessing!

I think it is a good skill, but like most, it depends on the situation. [Visions of Regret] I think might be in the OPs post as a cover for [Cry of Pain]. They have pretty good synergy. I would say your build is fine, but [Backfire] is mostly useful situationally . . . a guildie and I would duo most of Arborstone and I brought [Backfire] exclusively to take down the Ele boss spamming quick spells. Anyways, look for a bit more energy management and you will be fine. Do not listen to most PvE-ers who kick you for your build . . . suggestions are the mark of a good player.

upier · Aug 28, 2008, 07:06 PM // 19:06

This.

Quote:

Originally Posted by vader

I play a Domination build and have a lot of fun with it

It's PvE.
Enjoy it.

And for the people that are interested but lazy - Numa's build in pictures:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Numa Pompilius

[build=OQBDAqwDSNAEBDBaA2gKfXAZAA]

Ohh and the dude that kicked you was right.
It doesn't matter what he was saying - it's HIS party so that automatically ALWAYS makes him right.

faraaz · Aug 28, 2008, 07:24 PM // 19:24

Quote:

Originally Posted by upier

Ohh and the dude that kicked you was right.
It doesn't matter what he was saying - it's HIS party so that automatically ALWAYS makes him right.

I hope you are being sarcastic?

But to the OP, if I were you, I'd invest in getting some epic skills unlocked for your heros and get them decent greens and rune up their armor. The day I stopped PuGging and starting H/H'ing everything (including HM stuff

) was the happiest day of my GW life.

If you're talking about DoA or FoW, hell even Deep etc, then just get yourself a high end PvE guild.

upier · Aug 28, 2008, 07:53 PM // 19:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by faraaz

I hope you are being sarcastic?

Why?
The party leader should have a certain vision of what his party should do.
The people that do not fit that vision should get kicked.

It's a team game.

faraaz · Aug 28, 2008, 08:00 PM // 20:00

Quote:

Originally Posted by upier

It's a team game.

Which would involve sharing that vision and making a suggestion or two, about builds the person could run.

Abedeus · Aug 28, 2008, 08:01 PM // 20:01

WUT? God. Even more blasphemies made by Upier.

Kicking after a person didn't agree to change build to a similar of what leader wants = good, because person is selfish.

Kicking right after seeing a (NOT THAT BAD) build without a chance to change = bad, because leader thinks he's more important than 7 people altogether.

upier · Aug 28, 2008, 08:10 PM // 20:10

Quote:

Originally Posted by faraaz

Which would involve sharing that vision and making a suggestion or two, about builds the person could run.

Yes, that would be the more productive action out of the two.
But that still doesn't make the action to just kick the OP wrong.
The party leader agrees with it - otherwise he wouldn't have done it - and the other party members show by staying that they at least do not oppose it.

Hugh Manatee · Aug 29, 2008, 04:37 AM // 04:37

I'd say Backfire is actually decent in most PvE instances(the only place where it really is decent probably), just swap E-Burn out for diversion, power lock, power spike, power leak or cry of frustration if you want to catch something you don't want to be cast often, and you're build is pretty much set up to abuse the hell out of dumb AI that will attack and cast through anything.

You've got Cry of pain to interrupt some of the big booms you encounter, between vision, backfire, and empathy if you party has enough defense by way of paragons, warrior SY! shouts and some decent monk/rit prots the enemies will kill themselves.

Magikarp · Aug 29, 2008, 05:21 AM // 05:21

Quote:

Originally Posted by Numa Pompilius

Frankly, that is a pretty bad build. You've only got four domination skills, out of which your elite is pretty much useless and power burn and backfire rarely very effective in PvE.

Also it's a straight damage bar, something mesmers don't really do as well as, to be blunt, all other professions.

lulwut??

your elite is fine. VoR is mega-beast in PvE, only second to AP, which is still all pref. When i run VoR, i still try to take both Ebon sin and FH! add in the obvious CoP and you have 4 crazy good skills right off the bat. i would say if you really wanna spruce up your bar, look into dropping Bfire simply because unless your team is out to trash a boss, or your team is having a rough with casters in HM, you boot out a lot of energy for an ok skill w/o AP.

oh and Esig.. idk.. im not a fan, nor would it be worth the extra points. go Me/E for GolE

Quote:

Originally Posted by upier

Yes, that would be the more productive action out of the two.
But that still doesn't make the action to just kick the OP wrong.
The party leader agrees with it - otherwise he wouldn't have done it - and the other party members show by staying that they at least do not oppose it.

you've reminded me of exactly why i dont pug anymore.

JDRyder · Aug 29, 2008, 05:27 AM // 05:27

not sure why so many people say replace VoR, that skill ownz face, dont forget it got buffed its for all skillz now and things just kill their self when you put it on them, and its AoE

draxynnic · Aug 29, 2008, 06:26 AM // 06:26

I think Numa was the only one who said that... and I suspect he hasn't noticed it got reworked...

Still, having had a go with VoR, I suspect it still lags behind the elites the Necro stole (SS, SV). It's pretty good for a Mesmer elite and will probably end up pretty much stapled to my Gwen's bar unless I really want heavy shutdown instead, but... well, I bring your attention to the "for a Mesmer elite" part.

upier · Aug 29, 2008, 07:01 AM // 07:01

Quote:

Originally Posted by Magikarp

you've reminded me of exactly why i dont pug anymore.

I know what you mean.
Same here.
Well - same in terms of not PuGing because I am bored of pissy little girls who feel that they are somehow entitled to having a slot in the party.

faraaz · Aug 29, 2008, 04:01 PM // 16:01

Ehh...the only time I kicked a PuG without even suggesting a build to him was when I had a guy in RoF mission who wasnt infused. He looked dodgy, so I made sure to check. When he said he wasnt, I didn't even bother seeing his build.

When I make a PuG, only time ppl leave is when they dont like being told what build to run. One time when I was doing Gate of Pain for prot title on my Necro, there was this Para who was begging people for help and I felt bad, so I took him along. He had a bar full of Fire Magic skills for some reason (Meteor Shower, Immolate, Rodgort's Invocation...the works!) so I ping'd him my Morgahn's build and asked him if he could run that.

He said he didn't have a single skill out of any of those, but asked me to wait for him. He wiki'd the skills, went and bought every single one of them, except the elite. Then he asked me to tell him another skill he could use instead of the elite, since that would take time to unlock/cap. I made a recommendation, he bought it, and then came back to do the mission with me.

Frankly, I started off thinking he was a noob...but I was just completely blown away. I never had a PuG guy that nice. AND he was really happy with the build, and promised me that he would go cap the elite (Cruel Spear) straight away on his Para. I let him add me on FL and I help him out from time to time, when I'm not too busy.

The point of the story? Sometimes taking the time out to share builds and be nice to PuGs helps.

The Meth · Aug 29, 2008, 04:27 PM // 16:27

Quote:

Originally Posted by upier

I know what you mean.
Same here.
Well - same in terms of not PuGing because I am bored of pissy little girls who feel that they are somehow entitled to having a slot in the party.

Obviously noone is going to fault you for kicking the healing hands/mending wammo's, but if you are looking for pug players and your standards are so high that the OP's build wont suffice then I seriously doubt you will find any pug players to play with. Any pug could well use a build that good and if you want something better you should stop inviting pugs and use heroes. It may not have been technically 'wrong' to kick the OP, but it was a stupid thing to do and showed off how the party leader had no idea how to play.

t00115577 · Aug 29, 2008, 05:01 PM // 17:01

lol upier is the man, he has the balls to tell it like it is. Love it

Id agree with him in a way too, if im leader and someone pings a bar thats not good for the area, (especially on a mesmer as they can counter everything) they dont know what they are doing.

Like someone pinging a good anti meele bar in a caster heavy area, even though its a good build, /kicked. Which is what i would assume happened to OP, kicked even with a good build as it wasnt good for the area/mission.

Magikarp · Aug 29, 2008, 07:52 PM // 19:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by t00115577

lol upier is the man, he has the balls to tell it like it is. Love it

Id agree with him in a way too, if im leader and someone pings a bar thats not good for the area, (especially on a mesmer as they can counter everything) they dont know what they are doing.

Like someone pinging a good anti meele bar in a caster heavy area, even though its a good build, /kicked. Which is what i would assume happened to OP, kicked even with a good build as it wasnt good for the area/mission.

the average player can grasp what works against what, but they might not know the area off the back of their hand, so instead of you interwebz masters giving boots like there's no tomorrow.. how about you actually help stimulate the community by explaining what would work better, or what type of bar would be more efficient, then if they cant run it, say you're sorry, then kick.

courtesy.

Tyla · Aug 29, 2008, 09:10 PM // 21:10

Quote:

Originally Posted by faraaz

I run this:

[build;OQdTAQB7VaBSDYJwGkFkDIHYFEA]

It's pretty damn awesome, if you can use Sin's Promise right. Plus I run discordway in PvE, both NM & HM, so this build compliments it nicely. Being able to keep Shadow Sanctuary on you almost 100% of the time is just gravy.

I like this. However, I would swap out Ether Nightmare and insert another PvE skill, since you already have Empathy and degeneration is slightly weaker in PvE because things die faster regardless of the skill slot. "Finish Him!" could be good to help trigger Assassin's Promise, and the best part is it also synergises.

As for the OP, the build is quite bad and lacks some other strong skills you can use, such as Cry of Frustration. However, if you're having fun with it you might as well use it, because it's PvE.

draxynnic · Aug 30, 2008, 01:10 AM // 01:10

Quote:

Originally Posted by Magikarp

the average player can grasp what works against what, but they might not know the area off the back of their hand, so instead of you interwebz masters giving boots like there's no tomorrow.. how about you actually help stimulate the community by explaining what would work better, or what type of bar would be more efficient, then if they cant run it, say you're sorry, then kick.

courtesy.

Just because someone's unfamiliar with an area doesn't mean they're bad at the game. I'd describe myself as unfamiliar with FoW and the UW because I haven't had much opportunity to enter (and don't particularly enjoy solo-farming)... but I've also successfully H/H Tombs multiple times.

Thing is, giving someone some pointers propagates better play: it's potentially adding at least one more good player into the pool next time you want to do a particular area, who might then propagate it to other players in turn. Or, of course, the build in question might be one that actually does work even if it's not the one you're looking for, in which case they might prove to be just as competent with the build you wanted if you gave them a chance. Everybody's got to have their first run of a particular area sometime...

That said, this is directed more at Numbers Guy - while upier has been playing Devil's Advocate here, he did say that it would have been better for the party leader in question to have made suggestions rather than autokicking.

illidan009 · Aug 30, 2008, 01:42 AM // 01:42

Yeah that's not a bad build at all...not the best synergy with each other but as skills none of them are bad...you have interrupts AS WELL AS damage...what's not to like? Oh yea, the elite...at least bring Power Block or Mantra of Recall...besides that the most important thing is that you have fun using it, on the basis that the build doesnt' completely fail...which yours certainly don't O_O