Curse

Xenomortis · Sep 15, 2009, 11:48 AM // 11:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tenebrae

-Spell Stealing : Plenty of skills to do it and you can even abuse them if you are going on Mimic "Sig of Illusion" Mesmer. Arcane thievery/Smooth Criminal/A.Larceny can disable half of a caster foe bar ( they only have 4-6 skills 90% of the time ), 1 or 2 stealing skills are more than enough.

Spell stealing is perhaps the worst way to accomplish this. You've sacrificed a quarter of your bar to shut down one enemy whilst gaining access to skills that you may or may not be able to use effectively at all, even with SoI. You have a period in which you cannot repeat the process and Smooth Criminal has a 20 second recharge on top of it.

Tenebrae · Sep 15, 2009, 12:40 PM // 12:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by Xenomortis

Spell stealing is perhaps the worst way to accomplish this. You've sacrificed a quarter of your bar to shut down one enemy whilst gaining access to skills that you may or may not be able to use effectively at all, even with SoI. You have a period in which you cannot repeat the process and Smooth Criminal has a 20 second recharge on top of it.

A Quarter or an 8th part is nothing , if your task is X and you need 8 skills to do it ... you must be doing something very wrong or dont have a good build. Even with 1 spell stealing skill and Sig of Humilty you are doing VERY good at disabling foes and if you dont use that/those skills effectively with SOI you wont do it with nothing else pal , thats the truth.
Ofc smooth criminal has a 20 sec recharge , if it had 10 would be bloody overpowered ... a skill that needs no att , no sec proffesion , gives you energy ( or at least you lose 0 energy after using it ) and disables ANY non-monster spell in the game from any foe . Still seems pretty decent to me.
For me blackout its self is the worst way to do it :
-Go melee range to the selected target ( lol @ that on HM )
-Even disabling foe skills , if its a melee , can crit you for 100+ dmg.
-Your skills are disabled for 5 secs and you cant e-manage meanwhile
-You still cant disable monster skills.
Perhaps if on the pve version blackout was longer and touch range was removed it would be great but right now ... wow , not worth to bring it on a caster bar.

upier · Sep 15, 2009, 01:36 PM // 13:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tenebrae

For me blackout its self is the worst way to do it :
-Go melee range to the selected target ( lol @ that on HM )
-Even disabling foe skills , if its a melee , can crit you for 100+ dmg.
-Your skills are disabled for 5 secs and you cant e-manage meanwhile
-You still cant disable monster skills.
Perhaps if on the pve version blackout was longer and touch range was removed it would be great but right now ... wow , not worth to bring it on a caster bar.

Blackout is the reason why I run a PvE HM mesmer.
(With AP of course.
AP the target that is about to die, then Blackout a different foe.
The APed foe dies, AP recharges all your skills.)

(And once again - on the subject of spell stealing - only run Thievery/Larceny with a minimal investment in Domination. You also might not want to use SoI when running it.)

maxxfury · Sep 15, 2009, 03:24 PM // 15:24

Quote:

Originally Posted by tenebrae

AP builds arent popular for single damage and you know it . How many ppl played/abused AP without being a prim sin before discordway ?

Ive been abusing AP since very early factions actually, when i first came across it outside Maatu.

on Monk, mes and back then on nec and rit as well

I know quite a lot of people who have (ab)used it for ages on bar's other than disco. Especially BEFORE disco became 'meta'

Mes with AP, unaturall sig, spiritual pain, eburn for some nice oldstyle spike damage, ofc, PRE pve skills

byteme! · Sep 15, 2009, 06:26 PM // 18:26

The last 2 posts hi-lighted Mesmers using AP. Hint Hint.

xarkle · Sep 15, 2009, 08:38 PM // 20:38

Yes, people who are saying use assassins promise are really just proving my point that i started with. to make the mesmer a valid pve character you are having to use elite skills outside the primary, that is bs. I think that the assassin has many skills that should be the mesmers, in a way i wish guild wars would have combined these two professions, but that is a different subject. almost all elites from mesmer are worthless, and all arena net has done to fix this is to put pve skills that anyone can use.

Here is an idea for you, un nerf CoP and make it relay on the fast casting attribute of mesmers so other proffessions can not use it as easily, because right now any proffesion can use it and that is annoying. It is a mesmer skill, and a powerful one, so keep it useful in the mesmer line.

paranon · Sep 15, 2009, 09:20 PM // 21:20

I am not a primary mesmer, i play them in pvp, i do not pretend to be a an expert. This is speaking from a pve monk's point of view. Mesmers are (if played right) something that a balanced team shouldn't be without, especially in high-end areas. Yes, pve is about brute force bla bla. As a mesmer, don't worry about your lack of damage. Think interrupts. Here is a basic overview of what i would like you to bring as a mesmer in my party:

Interrupts.

If i played mesmer in pve one skill that would never leave my bar would be power return. Generally, enemies don't run out of energy, i would take power return and power block and just cycle through enemies, interrupting everything that could hurt the party. I garuntee your monks will love you. Don't try and play a mesmer as an ele, or as a sin. Eles and sins do that better. Play it as a mesmer. If you play it well then people will notice the fact that your party is taking no caster damage whatsoever, and they will praise you for it.

drkn · Sep 15, 2009, 09:26 PM // 21:26

Quote:

Here is an idea for you, un nerf CoP and make it relay on the fast casting attribute of mesmers so other proffessions can not use it as easily, because right now any proffesion can use it and that is annoying. It is a mesmer skill, and a powerful one, so keep it useful in the mesmer line.

was suggested a long time ago...

so if i may use the OPs topic so i don't make a new one... had a break for some time, several months actually. just seen that cop and vor got nerfed. i basically always relied on domination line (vor/empathy/backfire/wastrel) + some inspiration energy management + the pve skills, mainly cop. i'm of course talking about common pve, like vanquishing or hm missions/dungeons, often h/h.
how do mesmers build their tabs nowadays? if there are any mesmers not using discordway/sabway/other 'proway' and not based on ap, could i see some skilltabs you're using, please?
or maybe the nerf isn't that bad as it seems and the old tab will work fine?

thank you.

lustnlood · Sep 15, 2009, 09:31 PM // 21:31

i'm sorry.. but i am getting the impression that you believe mesmers suck at pve as dmg... your completely mistaken... have you tried "by ural's Hammer!" + visions of regret.. im telling you... that is where the real dmg is... not to mention the cry of pain following it... re-think the profession if you lot are such closed minded ppl

paranon · Sep 15, 2009, 09:49 PM // 21:49

Quote:

Originally Posted by lustnlood

i'm sorry.. but i am getting the impression that you believe mesmers suck at pve as dmg... your completely mistaken... have you tried "by ural's Hammer!" + visions of regret.. im telling you... that is where the real dmg is... not to mention the cry of pain following it... re-think the profession if you lot are such closed minded ppl

So, you're saying that if you want a class do deal large amounts of aoe damage, then mesmers are your best bet? No, they don't suck at it, but other classes do it better.

lustnlood · Sep 15, 2009, 09:54 PM // 21:54

Quote:

Originally Posted by paranon

So, you're saying that if you want a class do deal large amounts of aoe damage, then mesmers are your best bet? No, they don't suck at it, but other classes do it better.

hardly... have you seen VoR in doa.... tell me what class does massacres like that

Tenebrae · Sep 15, 2009, 09:57 PM // 21:57

Quote:

Originally Posted by lustnlood

i'm sorry.. but i am getting the impression that you believe mesmers suck at pve as dmg... your completely mistaken... have you tried "by ural's Hammer!" + visions of regret.. im telling you... that is where the real dmg is... not to mention the cry of pain following it... re-think the profession if you lot are such closed minded ppl

You know , ppl dont think nowadays , ppl wont spend even 10 mins to pick up a build that works well with the group or the zone he/she is going to play in. A very large amount of them will refuse to change their "pvx copied" build in favor of testing team synch ..... not even changing 1 skill and then you read things like this ....

Quote:

Originally Posted by drkn

how do mesmers build their tabs nowadays? if there are any mesmers not using discordway/sabway/other 'proway' and not based on ap, could i see some skilltabs you're using, please?
or maybe the nerf isn't that bad as it seems and the old tab will work fine?

thank you.

Seriously i pity you , for me the fun of this game is not smashing buttons outside an outpost , is testing and thinking about builds and diff teams for diff missions . People that think like me wont give you any builds because you are likely to compare them with "whateverway" and AP caller and most of the times , builds ppl like me can give wont work 100% effective "on its own" , needs a special team config. Shame you wont spend not even 10mins thinking about builds instead asking for them .... you would get at least 2 imo

byteme! · Sep 16, 2009, 02:07 AM // 02:07

Quote:

Originally Posted by lustnlood

i'm sorry.. but i am getting the impression that you believe mesmers suck at pve as dmg... your completely mistaken... have you tried "by ural's Hammer!" + visions of regret.. im telling you... that is where the real dmg is... not to mention the cry of pain following it... re-think the profession if you lot are such closed minded ppl

No you got the wrong impression. What's being said here is the that a Mesmers "own personal" arsenal of skills is inadequate and in order for you to compensate you have to rely on a)PvE only skills or b)your secondary (somebody else's skill line) to effectively make the Mesmer viable as an alternative as opposed to the norm.

You prove this yourself by adding in "By Ural's Hammer" and "Cry of Pain" into your argument. Where would the Mesmer be if we didn't have those?

Daesu · Sep 16, 2009, 03:41 AM // 03:41

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tenebrae

Then you want to make them necros or nukers ? i think you should play a necro or a nuker instead lol . I dont think "making" a class like another will make that class popular at all

It is called a class comparison.

Quote:

AP builds arent popular for single damage and you know it . How many ppl played/abused AP without being a prim sin before discordway ?

.

MANY. AP builds have been around for a very long time before discordway. But of course, newbies would not have known that.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tenebrae

I never said otherwise but yes , APPARANTLY is the word. They dont , trust me and you can notice it even more on Prophecies but im not gonna argue if E-denial is good , bad or not , just answered a question and thats it .

E-denial is just bad for general PvE and that's it.

Quote:

You think too much on the paper, skill bar blackout with blackout skill is 2+2=4 , think further :
-Powerblock = Caster pwnd , AI can do it and humans too if they know foes skill bar ( wich i think any1 should ).

And deal with the 15e and 20s recharge if you miss.

Quote:

-Sig of humility : also works as an interrupt if done while elite skill was being casted. Disables foe elite enough time to kill him. If you face dangerous bosses , mantra of inscription and there you go.

Sure provided he doesn't have any other skills besides the elite.

Quote:

-Spell Stealing : Plenty of skills to do it and you can even abuse them if you are going on Mimic "Sig of Illusion" Mesmer. Arcane thievery/Smooth Criminal/A.Larceny can disable half of a caster foe bar ( they only have 4-6 skills 90% of the time ), 1 or 2 stealing skills are more than enough.

By the time, you disable 1 or 2 skills, the target would have already been dead from discordway.

Quote:

Not most , maybe half with luck , now most of them affect chants ( irremovable once casted)

Ooooo...it affects chants that would be very useful in general pve.

Quote:

and most have an effect (e-gain , damage , disable) and on top of that ...... they dont have arrow flight time ( hello HM with <1sec cast , GL interrupting with a bow ).
About that "very long" recharges i dont know what you mean because if we take out elites (R`s punishing is 5 sec recharge and Mes Psych distraction has 2 seg so they are even ) and savage shot ,

And what if we don't take out the elites and savage shot?

Psychic distraction costs 10e per cast and disables all your other skills. Not worth it for general pve.

Quote:

rest of ranger interrupts have 10 or more sec recharge and mes have 12-15 or more. Not big diff and definetly not very long recharges imo.

And not to mention that rangers have the expertise to spam them while mesmers run out of energy if they even try to spam their interrupt spells.

Tenebrae · Sep 16, 2009, 09:18 AM // 09:18

Seriously pal , you should stop quoting something and making an answer for some question or point that no one asked about , that makes your multiquotes really annoying. Its so absurd that its even funny , leets keep with the fun !

Quote:

Originally Posted by Daesu

It is called a pointless class comparison.

Fixed.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Daesu

MANY. AP builds have been around for a very long time before discordway. But of course, newbies would not have known that.

False but i understand that some ppl arent smart enough to see that AP caller is used about 10x times now that when factions came out no matter how many AP users where those days

Now lets take a look to "answers to questions/things ppl never said ( or said otherwise )" section

Quote:

Originally Posted by Daesu

1-E-denial is just bad for general PvE and that's it.
2-...And deal with the 15e and 20s recharge if you miss.
3-Sure provided he doesn't have any other skills besides the elite.
4-Ooooo...it affects chants that would be very useful in general pve.

All of this can be described like a big "w00t ?"

Now lets go to the "Fun offtopic Stuff" section

Quote:

Originally Posted by Daesu

By the time, you disable 1 or 2 skills, the target would have already been dead from discordway.

Sorry , i forgot that all GW = Discordway <insert audience laughs here> and who ever dont use it is dumb and not worth taking his opinion in consideration ! <insert audience "ooooh">

Quote:

Originally Posted by Daesu

And what if we don't take out the elites and savage shot?

Psychic distraction costs 10e per cast and disables all your other skills. Not worth it for general pve.

Oh im forgetful but you are too... what if we dont take out elites ? who has MORE interrupting elites ? Mesmer. Arrows have a flight time so like i said before "GL interruptin in HM" not even AI is capable of doing that and for god sake , Punishing/Magebane for PvE ? really ? Not even close to be worth on PvE , you lack lots of experience with a ranger i can tell.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Daesu

And not to mention that rangers have the expertise to spam them while mesmers run out of energy if they even try to spam their interrupt spells.

This was the best , worth a stand up comedy. So whats your Ranger spam ? Savage/Magebane + distracting + savage chain ¿? im guessing you are not using ANY other skill right ? because if you do , even with 15 expertise your energy will fade out really fast .... cough cough*lackofexperiencewithranger*cough.
But the best of all is the "mesmer run out of energy" part , that deserves a VERY big LOL. If theres ONE class that is capable 100% of not running out of energy in this game is mesmer , you sir made an epic FAIL.

I dont see your point of making this thread and the other one a "my necro/nuker is far better than your mesmer hahaha" or "mesmer is the worst at pve" . You are not helping or saying something constructive at all .

the_undutchable · Sep 16, 2009, 10:54 AM // 10:54

Why is it that so many people believe that you need to be able to use brute force to be an asset in PvE? (Not counting healers here)

My mesmer does not use brute force. But I tested a build here on the forums that centers around fragility. It is not the most powerful bar ever, but I deal ~300 armour ignoring damage on 1 foe or adacent foes in only 7 seconds, and only about 10 seconds later I can re-cast the bar. That damage is using mesmer only skills with a necro elite (virulence), I'm still waiting to try it with the mesmer condition elite, I just haven't captured that one yet.

That spike is using only 5 skill slots, so I have 3 skill slots left for area-specific skills. If I'm lazy I'll put wandering eye and pain inverter in there. I like the last slot for extra e-management. It just makes life easier.

Yes it's a spike build, which is not what the mesmer is best at, but people underestimate the damage output a mesmer can do. There are a lot of heavy health degen hexes as well as quite a few destructive spells that deal armour ignoring damage.

AP, VoR or MoR are not the only (elite) skills a mesmer can build a good working build around. If you just look at what some of the spells can do, you could make some really fun and painful builds.

I do admit that mesmers are better suited for PvP, because that is where shutdown shines in its full glory. Just because mesmers are not as good in PvE as they are in PvP, does not mean they can't steamroll over mobs in PvE.
And they're decent farmers too. Mesmers are very very effective raptor farmers and they are just as good as or better than smite monks. They're more flexible in what bonds they bring in any case.

paranon · Sep 16, 2009, 04:48 PM // 16:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by lustnlood

hardly... have you seen VoR in doa.... tell me what class does massacres like that

mate, i'm not talking about cryway, in a balanced team, you dont have a perma to ball everything up nicely for you, your fighting a group of 5-10 mobs that are inevitably spread out and there.

upier · Sep 16, 2009, 05:41 PM // 17:41

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tenebrae

... If theres ONE class that is capable 100% of not running out of energy in this game is mesmer ...

But seriously - Ether Renewal.

Cuilan · Sep 16, 2009, 08:25 PM // 20:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by paranon

mate, i'm not talking about cryway, in a balanced team

Nope, I've done 1500+ damage with VoR without a perma or cryway.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Daesu

And not to mention that rangers have the expertise to spam them while mesmers run out of energy if they even try to spam their interrupt spells.

Mesmer interrupt builds I've played never had any energy issues at all. Ever.

Quote:

Originally Posted by upier

But seriously - Ether Renewal.

That is indeed a great skill, but um...okay..?

maxxfury · Sep 17, 2009, 12:51 AM // 00:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by upier

But seriously - Ether Renewal.

oh man!.....thats cake!!! <3

I hate to have to step in here an agree with my boy Upier!..(i say hate..i mean...i actually agree with this whole heartedly =D)

LOL!

inspirations is a whole heap of poop these days compared to what is used to be!!!! and yeah ER is the dogs nuts!

If you have spare blue bar and your NOT running AP...id wonder wtf u are doin, its not pvp... mobs come at you faster than some thing thats comes fast!! =D empty them blue bars and blow stuff up!!