Curse

Francis Demeules · Jun 18, 2006, 07:16 PM // 19:16

/sigh

I hate starting threads when I think I will get flamed in a sec.

I want something to ask you all: Do you think Water ele can get their place in PvE? I mean, I saw like only 2 since I started playeing (Prophecies beta) in PvE. I know they're still good in PvP but its another thing. What I ask now is PvE only. I dont want to mean to create a build. But, its like players want to follow the same old routine.....

Ensign · Jun 18, 2006, 07:54 PM // 19:54

I've run Maelstrom on a dualspec guy before the AoE update with resounding success.

Water just isn't all that good in PvE. Snare effects don't matter when people just stand around shooting at each other. Until there's a big AI update that makes kiting relevant water won't be any good.

Peace,
-CxE

AaronSwitchblade · Jun 18, 2006, 08:15 PM // 20:15

It depends what you want to do. It's a very different game to the other magic types.

I have an elementalist/mesmer, and I found that water magic allows me to really work with a mix of my primary and secondary class; you can be quite an effective interruptor, as well as having positive things like Armour of Mist.

Although you might not deal as much damage as a Pyromancer, it's a really fun build to use and you will be useful to a team. Plus, if you use it, people will presume you're either really crap, or you're REALLY good - I found overall I got teams quicker than as a Pyromancer.

Francis Demeules · Jun 18, 2006, 08:32 PM // 20:32

Well, I have more experience in Earth and Water Attribute (Created an Ele with Water, switched to Earth and got deleted. Now its my mesmer who does Ele) than Fire and Air (Dont like them). I didn't want to make big damage like Fire or Air (single target). I slowed melee monsters, blurred them, interrupt the casters and more. The thing is like everyone doesn't want them. Since Faction, Nukers begins to get out of the popularity (Even if PuGs ask them). So I wondered if Water can have a place in PvE.

Problably I will delete my monk for that because I get to more stress in groups and I dont have any places (Sad bc I got my staff though) and recreate my Water ele like before.

Pick Me · Jun 19, 2006, 01:16 PM // 13:16

Yes, Water Eles do have a place in PvE.

Its a shame that its mostly conditional. Without Winter, Water Eles rock on the Island of Fire and usually in Sorrow's Furnace. They are next to useless in the Shiverpeaks (most have cold resistance). Slowing monsters from catching your monks and other squishies, including yourself, can be a great benefit. With Mist Form, you can cast without worrying about most attacks. While people think Elementalist suck in PvP (in general) - just look at two threads, Eles kinda suck now, and another one regarding the condition factor of Burning - Water Eles can still have a place in PvE, just most people are single minded regarding that class (Fire = the best).

LightningHell · Jun 19, 2006, 01:58 PM // 13:58

We should get more Earth elementalists...like me. :P

Water is pretty much crowd control; I'm guessing a lot of micro'ing, if that would be the correct term.

Francis Demeules · Jun 19, 2006, 03:19 PM // 15:19

I already see more Earth than Water, Hell.

I haven't deleted my monk yet but I need her for a while (need my 10k factions to continue with all my chars stuck in Cavalon

except my ranger).

The thing I like in Water is the combination of many spells in this attribute. Like using Mind Freeze and do Maelstorm at the location while the target try to escape (In PvP, monks dislike this when I did that). Now they can interrupt signets with Icy Prism, doing 99 cold dmg (lvl 12 water) with vapor blade and more.

People still don't see this line. I know they did solo Ettins Farms before the nerf.

Pick Me · Jun 19, 2006, 05:32 PM // 17:32

People tend to want disabilling abilities than hinderences.

Fire has knockdowns and burning
Earth has knockdowns and armor ignore damage and defenses
Air has blinding, knockdown, weakness

Non-spellcasters suffer blinding and weakness, everyone gets bangged by burning, and knockdowns.

If a target is moving, Water Trident (e) will knockdown. Icy Prison interupts signets (mostly used against Warrior's Sig).

Why don't you use Frozen Burst, Deep Freeze or Ice Prison before castin Maelstrom?

Francis Demeules · Jun 19, 2006, 10:23 PM // 22:23

Already did it the Deep Maelstorm combo. But I gave an example against one target. Off course if I want to deal many targets at once, this combo is a good choice too (bit hvy energy but can do it easely). I always keep Frozen burst with me too.

Bmont3779 · Jun 20, 2006, 01:37 PM // 13:37

I have been a water ele from the beginning of the game, and I love playing it. the pve part is alittle hard (expes finding a team), but after u work through it water eles can be great. I just formed a new alliance battle build with a water ele, 2 star burst eles and a boon/prot monk. works wanders.

PS: how many water eles are there? dont be afraid to shout it out.

LightningHell · Jun 20, 2006, 01:55 PM // 13:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by Francis Demeules

I already see more Earth than Water, Hell.

I haven't deleted my monk yet but I need her for a while (need my 10k factions to continue with all my chars stuck in Cavalon

except my ranger).

The thing I like in Water is the combination of many spells in this attribute. Like using Mind Freeze and do Maelstorm at the location while the target try to escape (In PvP, monks dislike this when I did that). Now they can interrupt signets with Icy Prism, doing 99 cold dmg (lvl 12 water) with vapor blade and more.

People still don't see this line. I know they did solo Ettins Farms before the nerf.

I'm not sure what you're talking about. In PvP, Water is generally good, with snares and the sort.

In PvE, they're dead the time you snare them, so...and on missions later on, they're screaming stupidly for fire nukers.

Francis Demeules · Jun 20, 2006, 02:48 PM // 14:48

Fire Nuker in Fing of Fire without Winter = shame

I Just put some Experience as a water ele when I try to stop the enemy monks thats all.

Bloodied Blade · Jun 22, 2006, 01:05 PM // 13:05

^^

I think one of the problems is that it's too easy for the fire elly to go e/r and simply bring Winter so that they have a comet shower instead of a meteor shower...

Ozric · Jun 22, 2006, 03:31 PM // 15:31

What's the hubbub? I usually never get any dice from anyone after I spam 'Ele LFG', and show up as my Earth or Air (hadn't moved into Water yet). On the rare occurence that I'm asked after joining the party whether I nuke, I tell them what I'm running that day be it Fire, Earth, or Air and very very infrequently get any complaints if I'm not doing Fire that day. Is it different for a Water guy?

BaconSoda · Jun 23, 2006, 02:34 PM // 14:34

If you tell someone you run water, it's regularly rejected in PvE (in my expereice), thusly is why you never tell them. Some people don't quite understand that this is a game, and they act as if their lives depend on winning a mission, or collecting 200 amber in Altrumm Ruins... And since Water Magic is the indirect Elementalist's way of dealing damage, it's veiwed as the weakest... Which is totally absurd, in no way is it weak, it's just indirect.

Sora · Jun 23, 2006, 02:56 PM // 14:56

I don't know. But I, as a hydromancer, can at least get in a group in Ring of Fire or Tahnnakai Temple.
I think BaconSoda is right, it's more supportive than damaging.

Francis Demeules · Jun 23, 2006, 10:27 PM // 22:27

Sorry for those who think I'm wrong here, I think Water Ele do more "Indirect dmg like mesmer". I mean, instead doing big dmg like Fire and others, Water can do many things to stop the enemies.

I deleted my monk to create my Ele as wanted and I already finished Vizunah Square lvl 14 as a Hydro. They asked for 2 casters (Me and a Mesmer which he was with me since we entered in Cantha) so they dont need to frustrate (The MM did in this group only) when I said I was Water. Perhaps I was low lvl but I saved the monk's butt alot of time against Assassins and Warrior with Blurred Vision and stopping Ritualist with Maelstrom+Deep Freeze.

Hollerith · Jun 23, 2006, 10:55 PM // 22:55

Water eles are great in pvp, and a real hit with assassin and W groupmates. Makes killing much easier to snare targets at will. Damage is secondary, but the group's DPS goes through the roof when targets can't kite.

I've tried using water more in pve, but I just don't think it's effective. It's better to kill things than to slow. Deep Freeze + Maelstrom works fine, but I'm usually left feeling like I should be doing more during that downtime.

LifeInfusion · Jun 23, 2006, 11:19 PM // 23:19

No offense to the water users, but Water in PvE isn't all that useful. Earth is way more useful for the wards and Aoe. The only viable things form the Water line are basically the Ward vs. Harm, Blurred vision (as a substitute for Ward vs. melee), Mirror of Ice for caster defense, Mist Form for farming melee mobs, and Deep Freeze. Maelstrom doesn't exacty work well when mobs run from it and using 60 energy for Deep Freeze + Maelstrom combos (2x 25 + exhaust) just to do some cold damage aoe is kinda bad.

Yes, I've tried all the elements. Fire is basically only useful for meteor shower KD and Fireball aoe spam. Air is good for single target but when you have single target it usually dies fast with earth or fire. Earth ftw. Aoe, KD, wards, buffs, armor ignoring damage.

artay · Jun 26, 2006, 11:08 PM // 23:08

I'm running a water ele build right now ele/nec Spinal shivers works WONDERS and i use barbs as a cover hex. I keep energy from spinal shivers drain up with ether prod and have some dmg/snare spells for oomph.

I went with a group to vs rotscale. He didnt get to use a SINGLE skill. Spinal interrupted them ALL. (we had necros with cold dmg wand, helps alot).
The leader was like "nice interrupts ranger" and ranger said "i didnt bring any"
lol its just so funny being alternative sometimes.