Curse

Chilly Ress · Oct 24, 2006, 07:20 PM // 19:20

Quote:

Originally Posted by dgb

And again, I'm telling you that you are wrong. Physicals backed up by an orders will waste PVE faster than eles ever will. This whole thread has been about just that, there's ample justification. Your justification so far has been essentialy "I say I deal more damage so I do". If you really beleive it back up your numbers.

I agree with your whole post except this...in a way. Physicals backed up by orders with do more damage, yes. However, it takes two charactr slots to accomplish. As far as fire goes in PvP in general, its only use is VoD when you have no intention of killing any NPC's and a starburster here and there. And no, I dont consider HA high-end pvp, because it's not. HA is filled with scrubs and henchway, and one of the quickest ways to dispose of those that get in your way is a starburst ele.

~Chill

LightningHell · Oct 24, 2006, 11:48 PM // 23:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chilly Ress

I agree with your whole post except this...in a way. Physicals backed up by orders with do more damage, yes. However, it takes two charactr slots to accomplish. As far as fire goes in PvP in general, its only use is VoD when you have no intention of killing any NPC's and a starburster here and there. And no, I dont consider HA high-end pvp, because it's not. HA is filled with scrubs and henchway, and one of the quickest ways to dispose of those that get in your way is a starburst ele.

I have a question.

If you don't consider HA high-level, why do you talk about Shockwave and Starburst?

/scratches head

Foehammer76 · Oct 25, 2006, 01:54 AM // 01:54

Wow, quite a discussion going on here...

Well, for me the answer is No. Eles are far from useless as damage dealers. I always feel that my Pyromancer is a valuable addition to the party. I have no problems with my damage output whatsoever.

Sure, it has a lot to do with "Reading the Battlefield", good positioning and deciding what to fire when at whom, its a lot more than just hoping for a big mob to fling some fireballs.

I will be so bold and asume that whoever doesn't get things done with his Pyromancer didn't discover it's full potential yet.

Thom Bangalter · Oct 25, 2006, 01:57 AM // 01:57

Quote:

Originally Posted by Foehammer76

Wow, quite a discussion going on here...

Well, for me the answer is No. Eles are far from useless as damage dealers. I always feel that my Pyromancer is a valuable addition to the party. I have no problems with my damage output whatsoever.

Sure, it has a lot to do with "Reading the Battlefield", good positioning and deciding what to fire when at whom, its a lot more than just hoping for a big mob to fling some fireballs.

I will be so bold and asume that whoever doesn't get things done with his Pyromancer didn't discover it's full potential yet.

I really, really wish people would read through this thread before posting.

Chilly Ress · Oct 25, 2006, 02:12 AM // 02:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by LightningHell

I have a question.

If you don't consider HA high-level, why do you talk about Shockwave and Starburst?

/scratches head

Because many people consider it high-end and many more play it. Therefore, builds for it are relevant in many pvp discussions.

inscribed · Oct 25, 2006, 03:25 AM // 03:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thom Bangalter

I really, really wish people would read through this thread before posting.

If people actually read the thread, this topic would have died long ago.

Got to hand it to some of these people though. The founder of iQ, of all people, puts up post after post of intelligent reasoning on why elementalists are inept damage dealers, and they come back with "well my elementalist can cause 100 damage so you're wrong!".

Thom Bangalter · Oct 25, 2006, 05:11 AM // 05:11

Quote:

Originally Posted by inscribed

The founder of iQ, of all people, puts up post after post of intelligent reasoning on why elementalists are inept damage dealers, and they come back with "well my elementalist can cause 100 damage so you're wrong!".

Farming FoW<gold capes apparently.

I do like really long threads like this because they divulge into some really bizarre things, like the series of posts on barrage a few days ago.

Chilly Ress · Oct 25, 2006, 05:55 PM // 17:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by inscribed

If people actually read the thread, this topic would have died long ago.

Got to hand it to some of these people though. The founder of iQ, of all people, puts up post after post of intelligent reasoning on why elementalists are inept damage dealers, and they come back with "well my elementalist can cause 100 damage so you're wrong!".

I'm going to give up, can't seem to reason with anyone, but...

I just love how 85% of the population are suckups to the max! No offense to iQ and any other people taking offense to this, it's just the truth.

dgb · Oct 26, 2006, 01:24 AM // 01:24

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chilly Ress

I'm going to give up, can't seem to reason with anyone, but...

I just love how 85% of the population are suckups to the max! No offense to iQ and any other people taking offense to this, it's just the truth.

I did Nahpui Quarter last night with a few people from my guild. We took two fighter hench,three warriors from my guild, a friend who needed masters on ele and two monks. Even without orders support, the five warriors frequently annihilated mobs before my elementalist friend got off his first meteor shower. To me this just proves the point, a warrior set up for PVE damage will beat the hell out of an elementalist any day.

*this includes the ranger enemies, who have Lightning Reflexes.

Thom Bangalter · Oct 26, 2006, 01:31 AM // 01:31

I always glyph my shower, because the only time I go e/me is for either farming or some crap ha build. Otherwise, shower is useless.

*I meant glyph of sacrifice, not GoE.

**the reason I specify E/me is because I'm always e/mo, especially in pve, for glyph rez chant, because it's way better than rez sig.

Dragannia · Oct 26, 2006, 01:39 AM // 01:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hyprodimus Prime

But I must say, I see the ele class as an aristocratical proffesion. Such elegance isnt pressented by any other profession.

Except for, of course, the Mesmer.

Chilly Ress · Oct 26, 2006, 02:17 AM // 02:17

Quote:

Originally Posted by dgb

I did Nahpui Quarter last night with a few people from my guild. We took two fighter hench,three warriors from my guild, a friend who needed masters on ele and two monks. Even without orders support, the five warriors frequently annihilated mobs before my elementalist friend got off his first meteor shower. To me this just proves the point, a warrior set up for PVE damage will beat the hell out of an elementalist any day.

*this includes the ranger enemies, who have Lightning Reflexes.

Lets think, maybe that is because you have 5 warriors and 1 ele? That may contribute to why the warriors did the main damage. Plus, anywhere I go, if I have ms, I have glyph of sacrifice, makes your warriors even more potent if you get one of the monks.

Hyprodimus Prime · Oct 26, 2006, 02:42 AM // 02:42

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dragannia

Except for, of course, the Mesmer.

OMG you're right! I need to make a mesmer now...

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chilly Ress

Lets think, maybe that is because you have 5 warriors and 1 ele? That may contribute to why the warriors did the main damage. Plus, anywhere I go, if I have ms, I have glyph of sacrifice, makes your warriors even more potent if you get one of the monks.

ya 5 to 1 doesnt seem fair. What i usually do when I nuke is use MS for the casters to throw them off ballence and Rodgort/fireball/Incendiary the main mobs. MS take a long time to get the first hit in. 8.75s i think.

dgb · Oct 26, 2006, 03:43 AM // 03:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chilly Ress

Lets think, maybe that is because you have 5 warriors and 1 ele? That may contribute to why the warriors did the main damage. Plus, anywhere I go, if I have ms, I have glyph of sacrifice, makes your warriors even more potent if you get one of the monks.

FFS that's exactly the point. Five substandard warriors (two were hench FFS) without an orders can evaporate mobs before eles can bring their main damage dealers to play. By the time it takes your beloved ele based damage groups to actually get their damage rolling, my warrior group is off beating the stuffing out of the next group. You can take six eles in your group if you want. My warriors are still rolling through faster than you ever will. It demonstrates one of the exact reasons eles suck as damage dealers. They take way too long to get their damage rolling, where a warrior just goes in and hits them with an axe. I know the combined warrior output is greater than that of an ele when there is a five to one ratio, that's not the point I'm making. The point I'm making is that the warriors outdamage the ele because they lead straight in, hit to the limit and start chucking out 100 damage packets within about a second of hitting the enemy.

Eles patently suck at rolling through PVE. Their damage isn't fast, it isn't particularly big and they are hampered by stupid cool downs.

Oh yeah, Glyphing MS doesn't exactly help - your MS might actually hit something which is a start, but then you're on an even longer cool down before you can do anything again. You win some but you lose plenty.

jesh · Oct 26, 2006, 04:31 PM // 16:31

So what does everyone think of the new skill elementalist skill update? I'm very glad they buffed Glyphs, it's a start. Now make them stack, dammit, and add better ones.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dragannia

Except for, of course, the Mesmer.

QFT.

Phades · Oct 27, 2006, 01:26 AM // 01:26

Quote:

Originally Posted by jesh

So what does everyone think of the new skill elementalist skill update? I'm very glad they buffed Glyphs, it's a start. Now make them stack, dammit, and add better ones.

Stacking glyphs might cause me to consider using glyph of concentration with another glyph. Even so, whatever skill being ramped up by 2 glyphs had better be damm important other than dealing ~14ish more damage.

Dr Strangelove · Oct 27, 2006, 01:40 AM // 01:40

The real point of glyph of elemental power is not to increase your DPS, but to increase your spike potential. It can be that last burst to finish of a target.

Phades · Oct 27, 2006, 01:55 AM // 01:55

Considering the increase is so meaningless from elemental power, its rather pointless even in a spike. The change in the update suggests that it was meant for a dps increase instead.

jesh · Oct 27, 2006, 02:06 AM // 02:06

Quote:

Originally Posted by Phades

Stacking glyphs might cause me to consider using glyph of concentration with another glyph. Even so, whatever skill being ramped up by 2 glyphs had better be damm important other than dealing ~14ish more damage.

I'm aware that with the skills in their current form, some would have to be lowered in power.. (or would they?) but I think if an elementalist could base half of their skill bar on Glyphs, and be totally different than another ele on their team, that would be just awesome. Each glyph could augment the following spells in different ways.. be creative. It's not that hard to think of how great it could be. And to you traditionalists, they could use glyphs on heal party also. Does that make you happy? =P

Glyph of Blizzard - Air Magic
Your next 3 spells gain +1-40 water damage and cause 66% reduction in movement speed for 1-10 seconds. 5e, 1s, 10r

Glyph of the Vampire
Your next spell steals 100 health and causes bleeding. 5e, 1s, 15r

Glyph of Arcane Wisdom
Your next two spells have twice the area of effect. If the spell is single target, it effects all nearby targets. 5e, 1s, 20r
(think about that with a RoF or something)

Phades · Oct 27, 2006, 02:18 AM // 02:18

I agree with the idea of glyph manipulation sounding interesting. The problem lies in space available. Its not like a ele can stand next to another ele casting a spell and just use glyphs for bonus effects like a ritualist can with spirits. If we werent restricted to 8 skills, it would be more interesting in that aspect. Then again, it would also be a different game.