Curse

Vernphos · Jan 24, 2012, 04:43 PM // 16:43

So, I've been playing derv for awhile. Its my favorite

The flash enchant update really made Dervish shine and I've been tinkering since then.

I generally use an Avatar, since I prefer teardown builds, but I have used a Pious renewal Build before (which I found to be lacking the damage of the others).

I've recently decided to try and fit Deep Wound unto my bar, since its pretty awesome and all. Save yourselves also fits into the "damn cool" category.

I have fallen in love with Sand Shards since the update. I also like to use IATS when possible as with a precharge, you can deliver +320 damage in 20 seconds.

So, i'd like you guys to give your opinions of some of the builds below. I'm running a Spiritway team (2 mez, 2 rits, 2 MM necs, HB healer) as backup.[See bottom for the team build]

Here's something incorporating both WS and SY:
OgGjwqp4KTBYPXibYXaXmXxguX

[Wearying Strike][Twin Moon Sweep][Heart of Fury][Balthazar's Rage][Staggering Force][Sand Shards]["Save Yourselves!" (Kurzick)][Avatar of Balthazar]

I was running this last night. First impression was it took awhile to get rolling and most of the mob was dead by the time i was starting to use Deep Wound. SY was used kind of rarely. The second group (if I could run to it quick enough) was easier as I had adrenaline built up, but I found I was not using SY very often. I did not try any extra team support/adrenaline builders as I wanted to see how it did on its own.

the second: OgGjwqp4KTSXBYibzkjbaXmXuX

[Pious Assault][Wearying Strike][Heart of Fury]["I Am the Strongest!"][Zealous Renewal][Staggering Force][Sand Shards][Avatar of Balthazar]

After the slow starting first build, I took out SY and Twin Moon Strike and added Pious assault, which I think is an under-used skill. That enabled me to build adrenaline quicker as well as apply cracked armor right off the start. This build worked much better.

Here's the last, my standard non-deep wound build. Basically an effective AoE teardown: OgGjkirMrSSXibzkjbaXmXygwXA

[Pious Assault][Heart of Fury]["I Am the Strongest!"][Zealous Renewal][Staggering Force][Sand Shards][Aura of Holy Might (Kurzick)][Avatar of Grenth]

This build basically works off the 3sec recharge on pious. Continual disease with Sand Shards as an AoE spike. Zealous renewal is required though for continual energy replacement (you run dry without it), but the build can spam each feeder enchantment as it recharges (which just about works out to 4 seconds in combination). AoHM gives an extra AoE burst when any of them end, including Shards. I sometimes substitue AoBalth in here if I am facing non-fleshy, but the extra 10 leech is really nice.

Anyhow, if you made it this far, I'd love to hear your opinions on how to fit deep wound in there. Any suggestions on team support skills would also be great.

Thanks

EDIT: Here's my Pious Renewal Build just for giggles

OgGjkirMrSbXSXihBYzksXmXygA

[Pious Renewal][Pious Assault][Pious Fury][Wearying Strike]["I Am the Strongest!"][Mystic Regeneration][Sand Shards][Aura of Holy Might (Kurzick)]

Team build (sometimes use paragon shouts in place of Prot spirit and Aegis)

AndrewSX · Jan 24, 2012, 05:44 PM // 17:44

I'm not at home atm, so i'll be direct with the 2 main problems:

-Double MM is BAD.
-Having a TOUCH Res on the main healer is even worse.

P.S: maybe i'll edit if nobody else will pop up to give better advices for when i'll be back at my PC.

mortenya · Jan 24, 2012, 05:55 PM // 17:55

i personally run a N/Rt healer, but if you like the monk, and he doesn't have issues with energy, no prob.

too many minions, i find one MM slows me down since they're always, ALWAYS, late to the party unless you move pretty slow. on my MM, i only use AotL for minions and i don't really feel like there aren't enough of them around, pretty standard MM/prots.

running a melee char, if you're trying to pull and ball, you might want a melee shutdown illusion mesmer, using things like clumsiness and ineptitude. outside of that, i've run similar builds and they worked fine.

you could try running an Avatar of Balthazar teardown build, and get a Paragon hero with They're on fire to reduce damage taken by %. beyond that, i try to run 2 teardown enchants, but then, i often run low on energy.

for Pious Renewal, i've always felt that it did great damage if you ball up enemies, using Pious Assault and Ermite's attack with Sand Shards and Splinter Weapon, you're doing a lot of damage to the group.

only thing i'd really say you should try and fit in, is Fall Back! i think that's one of my favorite skills in the game.

edit: also, paragon can provide Deep Wound with Find Their Weakness. they will cast it on you, but you might want to micro it, since they don't cast it a ton if they aren't at like, full energy. it seems to be a low priority spell for the AI.

KotCR · Jan 24, 2012, 05:56 PM // 17:56

Honestly, if you want an easy deep wound, without changing your build, just change one of your heroes to be /Pa, specced into Command and give them "Find Their Weakness!", then have them use it on you. Simple enough.

The Deep Wound won't last too long at low ranks of Command, but enemies will probably be dead in the 5-10 seconds or so it lasts at low ranks anyway, so it's not like you'd need to make a heavy investment in it.

As for fitting it onto your own build, if that's what you wanted in particular, their probably isn't a way to do it without giving up some damage or your elite, that's how builds are balanced. I don't really know much about Dervishes these days (other than what I need to know to protect myself against them), since I've not used them at all since the big update a while back, but, while I realise it increases your damage output, I would have thought you could easily replace "I'am the Strongest!" with some generic deep wound skill quite easily, without otherwise hurting the build, seems it's not the type of skill that would ever really be a key skill to a build working, it just speeds things up.

Vernphos · Jan 24, 2012, 06:38 PM // 18:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by AndrewSX

-Double MM is BAD.
-Having a TOUCH Res on the main healer is even worse.

Yes I realized the same thing. I did remove it for a plain resurrect, i think.

2nd MM: this is a new thing. The 8th spot I generally vary between Smiter monk (with SoH) and SS nec. I have been using the 2nd MM basically as meat shields/damage mitigation.

I am liking the SoGM rit as i found a ST Shelter just got used too fast by all the minions taking damage. The advantage of having two 'waves' of minions is one wave generally gets nuked and then the other remains.

Quote:

Originally Posted by mortenya

i personally run a N/Rt healer, but if you like the monk, and he doesn't have issues with energy, no prob.

I have used both..I waffle. The advantage of a Nec healer is no energy problems. Maybe replace him with Discord/resto? Or Icy Veins/resto (have not tried this ever).

Quote:

Originally Posted by mortenya

running a melee char, if you're trying to pull and ball, you might want a melee shutdown illusion mesmer, using things like clumsiness and ineptitude. outside of that, i've run similar builds and they worked fine.

I also waffle on this. The esurge mez is new. I got it in my head that ineptitude/anti-meele was only good in areas of high meele attackers; esurge works everywhere.

Quote:

Originally Posted by mortenya

t, i try to run 2 teardown enchants, but then, i often run low on energy.

yes I found you need to run zealous renewal to keep your energy up. Unless you want to use a zeal scythe...which I dont like.

Quote:

Originally Posted by mortenya

only thing i'd really say you should try and fit in, is Fall Back! i think that's one of my favorite skills in the game.

i understand. I just could never seem to fit it in and make it worth it (10 spec into command for 1 skill...I'd rather be a little slower)

mortenya · Jan 24, 2012, 06:57 PM // 18:57

well, i usually take stand your ground, never surrender, and 2x fall back, so the investment in command doesn't feel wasted to me, i often take two smiters as well.

Vernphos · Jan 24, 2012, 07:14 PM // 19:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by mortenya

well, i usually take stand your ground, never surrender, and 2x fall back, so the investment in command doesn't feel wasted to me, i often take two smiters as well.

Care to send me your team build?

I find it hard to spec in command, but I have recently seen the value of SYG...its awesome.

Fall back, well...jury is out :P

mortenya · Jan 24, 2012, 08:47 PM // 20:47

i don't have the build maker installed, i can give you the basics. i usually run about the same hero setup with my derv, rit, ranger, whoever.

AotL MM with prots
N/Rt healer with Icy Veins
Panic mesmer
Ineptitude mesmer (i've run with Psychic Instability, E-Surge, and Keystone builds)
SoS Resto Rt
standard RoJ smiters, 12 smite, 10 command, 8 divine, this gives me 2x fall back, stand your ground, +3 never surrender. Sometimes they have some energy issues, but they are for offense, so it's not a huge deal. i usually take 2 Mo/P, 3 if i want to take SoH
the last slot i've been running an earth ele for ward agaisnt melee, or a 3rd mesmer since i don't have livia yet, but really, i keep this slot flexible so i can take whatever i need for utility.

it isn't groundbreaking, all my builds are based around once i've gleaned from PvX, i make small changes to fit what i'm doing, and if i'm doing any HM stuff, i stop by the wiki to see if there is any particular pressure i need to make sure to counter. any of those builds can change slightly depending on what i'm playing as well.

my Rt is usually running either AP/channeling, or ST offensive spirits.

gray fox · Jan 24, 2012, 09:50 PM // 21:50

I occasionally use an orders nec to give my attacks a bit more damage. works well with sand shards and SW; OABDQsNHT+BfClBWCGCQVDN9iA. elite is optional, some microing can be required, but normally it works well.

Kunder · Jan 24, 2012, 09:56 PM // 21:56

You should retry the Pious Renewal build. Make absolutely sure you are running FGJ, a Dark Fury hero and take Twin Moon Sweep yourself. A derv that can spam Twin Moon Sweep to make every single attack a double strike is incredibly scary (even moreso once you put Order of Pain and Strength of Honor on yourself, thats +70 damage per attack!). Getting a free 100 health heal every second is also pretty nice, and the rest of the party is being made invincible through easy SY spam if needed.

Avatar of Grength is a really weak build for PvE. The health steal is just nothing, you may as well take Avatar of Balthazar (which is still a weak PvE elite) and spread Burning to out DPS the health steal. VoS/Pious Renewal/sometimes Onslaught are your PvE damage elites, with AoD as your kooky healer elite. Other Dervish elites aren't worth mentioning.

IATS is just not a good skill, and it gets worse comparatively the more often your scythe hits multiple enemies. You really shouldn't have troubles finding something more worthwhile than it.

As for your team build (speaking in general, modify as needed for specific derv build):

Psychic instability heroes are pretty lame about actually using PI. Drop or swap for another elite.

SOGM heroes are pretty piss-poor unless you manually setup spirits before every battle. If that is too much of a hassle for you to do then definitely drop it for something better.

2 full Minion Bombers is really bad. 2 half minion bombers is really good. 2 full Minion Masters is really good. You don't really have a Minion Master build (no BotM) or a Minion Bomber build (High level minions are wasteful of corpses vs Bone Minions) on either of your heroes. Pick one or the other and go with it.

There are a number of individual skills I could point out as somewhat weak, but nothing markedly bad so I'm not going to bother. You seem to know team builds pretty decently.

Vernphos · Jan 25, 2012, 01:44 AM // 01:44

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kunder

You should retry the Pious Renewal build. Make absolutely sure you are running FGJ, a Dark Fury hero and take Twin Moon Sweep yourself. A derv that can spam Twin Moon Sweep to make every single attack a double strike is incredibly scary (even moreso once you put Order of Pain and Strength of Honor on yourself, thats +70 damage per attack!). Getting a free 100 health heal every second is also pretty nice, and the rest of the party is being made invincible through easy SY spam if needed.

I can try the build you suggest. I have made several attempts at it, but not using adrenal boosting skills. I can see how Dark Fury will help, but it seems a large investment in health just to boost me. Without another meele in the party, I dont think its worth it.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kunder

Avatar of Grength is a really weak build for PvE. The health steal is just nothing

Well yeah I totally disagree with that statement. I have taken that build everywhere in HM, including elite end game and it works great. Consider that VoS does about 15 more damage, but only if you can get adjacent targets. It does nothing against a single target. It also only lasts 15 seconds and can be stripped at any time (in addition to now being flash). Meanwhile, grenth steals 10 health per target, about once per second. I don't consider that 'nothing'.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kunder

IATS is just not a good skill, and it gets worse comparatively the more often your scythe hits multiple enemies. You really shouldn't have troubles finding something more worthwhile than it.

Tell me another skill that can dish out +20 damage for every strike. 16 strikes in 20 seconds and then its on to the next group. All of this for 5-10 energy. I call that pretty good. Not saying there isn't another option (twin moon, Wearying strike), but its not garbage.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kunder

Psychic instability heroes are pretty lame about actually using PI. Drop or swap for another elite.

Have you seen this in action? A 4 second KD on a group is pretty damn impressive. Unlike Panic, it works just as well on single targets (dumb AI) or on a group of two. At 12 fast casting, it also recharges after only 7 seconds.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kunder

SOGM heroes are pretty piss-poor unless you manually setup spirits before every battle.

I have not noticed this. He generally spams them as combat begins. Combined with painful bond from the SoS rit and its a real machine gun. I will say that an ST Shelter Rit just burns through its charges too fast with all the minions. I would consider switching it out for another character though.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kunder

2 full Minion Bombers is really bad. 2 half minion bombers is really good. 2 full Minion Masters is really good. You don't really have a Minion Master build (no BotM) or a Minion Bomber build (High level minions are wasteful of corpses vs Bone Minions) on either of your heroes. Pick one or the other and go with it.

I actually agree with this. If someone can suggest a full MM build, please post it. Minion bomber is pretty much what I usually run.

Kunder · Jan 25, 2012, 02:39 AM // 02:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vernphos

Well yeah I totally disagree with that statement. I have taken that build everywhere in HM, including elite end game and it works great. Consider that VoS does about 15 more damage, but only if you can get adjacent targets. It does nothing against a single target. It also only lasts 15 seconds and can be stripped at any time (in addition to now being flash). Meanwhile, grenth steals 10 health per target, about once per second. I don't consider that 'nothing'.

VoS does 1x damage against 1 target, 2x against 2, 3x against 3, etc (or in total damage the sequence becomes 1x,4x,9x, which shows just how it scales in large groups). Given a good setup and an attack-all-adjacent skill, VoS can be a cool +100 damage on everyone around you easily. Then there are D/A builds that teleport into groups and hit 8 enemies at a time like a nuclear bomb went off...

Also, keep in mind that all enchants count the +20% enchant bonus you should have.

Quote:

Tell me another skill that can dish out +20 damage for every strike. 16 strikes in 20 seconds and then its on to the next group. All of this for 5-10 energy. I call that pretty good. Not saying there isn't another option (twin moon, Wearying strike), but its not garbage.

Twin Moon/Wearying/Eremite's/Reap/Pious are all attacks that should easily outdo it. Given that you like AoG so much (though optimally you should still dump it and rely on Withering Aura instead) I can't believe that you aren't abusing Reap Impurities to the heavens at the moment. If you hit 3 targets at the time with that then you deal 40 x 3 x 3 + 45= 400 damage. A single usage of it has the potential to deal over 2.5x what IATS can do over 20s.

As far as IATS vs other PvE skills goes, EVAS does ~250ish damage to a single target vs IATS's 160 distributed across many. Snow Storm is a 200 damage AoE on half IATS's recharge. Even simply using Drunken Master to go from 25% IAS to 33% IAS is going to give you a ~12% damage boost, and surely your derv can do more than (160 damage / .12 / 20s) 66 DPS, right?

Quote:

Have you seen this in action? A 4 second KD on a group is pretty damn impressive. Unlike Panic, it works just as well on single targets (dumb AI) or on a group of two. At 12 fast casting, it also recharges after only 7 seconds.

Yeah. In fact, its the only thing I run when I play mesmer. Problem is that heroes happily go 50% of fights never even casting it, and the other 45% of the time its on a single enemy and hardly accomplishes much. It works really, really well _sometimes_, but builds that rely on random chance aren't good. Heroes using RI is too chancy.

Also, just FYI, the breakpoint for 7s recharge is 13 FC. 12 FC gives you 8s, while a full 16 FC gives the 6s recharge that I <3 so very much.

Quote:

I have not noticed this. He generally spams them as combat begins. Combined with painful bond from the SoS rit and its a real machine gun. I will say that an ST Shelter Rit just burns through its charges too fast with all the minions. I would consider switching it out for another character though.

The problem is that if he is using them during combat, his DPS is actually atrociously low compared to other builds unless the battle goes on for well over a minute. It starts really low in damage at the beginning of battle and gets to be pretty high damage near the middle/end of a battle. Trouble is, you want maximum damage at the beginning of the battle, not the end. Ideally you want to frontload as much damage as possible to end battles as soon as possible. The better you play, the less time battles go on, the worst SoGM builds become.

There is also the fact that SoGM itself is really bad for in-battle summons. Either the hero uses it on the first spirit (and the later spirits don't get the buff) or the hero uses it on all spirits (meaning the earlier spirits spent a ton of time attacking without the SoGM buff). Both are highly unoptimal, which is another reason why SoGM builds really demand that you precast spirits to make them worthwhile.

Quote:

I actually agree with this. If someone can suggest a full MM build, please post it. Minion bomber is pretty much what I usually run.

AotL/Bone Fiends/Masochism/BotM/4 optional slots

Generic MM build

OoU/Vampiric/Bone Fiends/Masochism/BotM/4 optional

Damage-focused build

Throw Prot Spirit/Spirit bond/Aegis, SYG/Fall Back/FTY, Ancestor's Rage/Splinter Weapon, MoP/Enfeebling or something like those in for optional skills. Personally I highly discourage using healing stuff on MMs or MBs, if they are casting a 3s animate skill and then need to cast a 1s healing spell to save you, you are already dead in elite areas.

Vernphos · Jan 25, 2012, 02:22 PM // 14:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kunder

VoS does 1x damage against 1 target, 2x against 2, 3x against 3, etc (or in total damage the sequence becomes 1x,4x,9x, which shows just how it scales in large groups). Given a good setup and an attack-all-adjacent skill, VoS can be a cool +100 damage on everyone around you easily.
Also, keep in mind that all enchants count the +20% enchant bonus you should have.

Ok, this is the part where I admit I was totally wrong.

My excuse though is the wiki misled me:

" For 15 seconds, whenever you attack a foe with your scythe, you deal 10...22...25 slashing damage to all adjacent foes" which I took to mean he same as sand shards. Well, my testing shows it indeed works on single target and is multiplicitive. With an enchant mod, it could really be powerful.

I'm going to brainstorm today and come up with a VoS build. Likely something containing:

VoS, Sand Shards, Staggering Force, twin moon (for double VoS abuse), Drunken Master + 3 more TBD.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kunder

Twin Moon/Wearying/Eremite's/Reap/Pious are all attacks that should easily outdo it. Given that you like AoG so much (though optimally you should still dump it and rely on Withering Aura instead) I can't believe that you aren't abusing Reap Impurities to the heavens at the moment. If you hit 3 targets at the time with that then you deal 40 x 3 x 3 + 45= 400 damage. A single usage of it has the potential to deal over 2.5x what IATS can do over 20s.

With Grenth's I can see reap being good. Without it, I don't think I want it removing cracked armor. I'll look at it more; I do have one of my heros run withering aura...its amazing.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kunder

Yeah. In fact, its the only thing I run when I play mesmer. Problem is that heroes happily go 50% of fights never even casting it, and the other 45% of the time its on a single enemy and hardly accomplishes much. It works really, really well _sometimes_, but builds that rely on random chance aren't good. Heroes using RI is too chancy.

You could make the same argument for panic. Heros cast it on single targets or at the end of fights with two guys left. In either situation, PInst works better for the 'random chance'. i do switch to panic in urgoz or something with huge mobs.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kunder

AotL/Bone Fiends/Masochism/BotM/4 optional slots

Generic MM build

OoU/Vampiric/Bone Fiends/Masochism/BotM/4 optional

I'll test these with tht new build once its up and running. Thanks for your comments!

mortenya · Jan 25, 2012, 05:26 PM // 17:26

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kunder

Yeah. In fact, its the only thing I run when I play mesmer. Problem is that heroes happily go 50% of fights never even casting it, and the other 45% of the time its on a single enemy and hardly accomplishes much. It works really, really well _sometimes_, but builds that rely on random chance aren't good. Heroes using RI is too chancy.

Also, just FYI, the breakpoint for 7s recharge is 13 FC. 12 FC gives you 8s, while a full 16 FC gives the 6s recharge that I <3 so very much.

the thing about PI on heroes is that they will favor every interrupt on their bar over it. so if you want them to use it, you need to give them 0-1 other interrupts. if you give them only PI as an interrupt, they'll start using it more, but still not every time.

Kunder · Jan 25, 2012, 09:24 PM // 21:24

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vernphos

Ok, this is the part where I admit I was totally wrong.

My excuse though is the wiki misled me:

" For 15 seconds, whenever you attack a foe with your scythe, you deal 10...22...25 slashing damage to all adjacent foes" which I took to mean he same as sand shards. Well, my testing shows it indeed works on single target and is multiplicitive. With an enchant mod, it could really be powerful.

I'm going to brainstorm today and come up with a VoS build. Likely something containing:

VoS, Sand Shards, Staggering Force, twin moon (for double VoS abuse), Drunken Master + 3 more TBD.

Consider Eremite's Attack to trigger Staggering Force, the cracked armor gets applied right before the SS/VoS works and Eremite's is great for the beginning of the battle when you have no adrenaline (and the AoE hit effect both abuses VoS/SS and charges your adrenaline for other skills). If you want to be aggressive, Death's Charge in and along with Splinter Weapon you can kill some clumped groups instantly with 1 usage of Eremite's.

Quote:

With Grenth's I can see reap being good. Without it, I don't think I want it removing cracked armor. I'll look at it more; I do have one of my heros run withering aura...its amazing.

I'm pretty sure that as long as you have withering aura its impossible to remove other conditions with reap impurities. You will always apply weakness and Reap takes it off instantly. Maybe if you ran D/R with apply poison it would get in the way, but that's not an issue.

Quote:

You could make the same argument for panic. Heros cast it on single targets or at the end of fights with two guys left. In either situation, PInst works better for the 'random chance'. i do switch to panic in urgoz or something with huge mobs.

The difference is that you can manually order a hero to target panic on a mob, leaving them all interrupted. You can't really force heroes to use PI. Furthermore, even hitting only 1 enemy out of a clumped 6 enemy group is still worth ~50% effectiveness in shutdown ability, and hitting 2 is nearly complete shutdown due to how Panic works.

Run PI if you like, but I think you will find them not using the skill all that well rather often. I've gone so far as disabling every other skill on their bar and they still take a long time to use it.

set asside · Jan 26, 2012, 02:05 PM // 14:05

My build's really close to your first build... But I like mine better :P
OgCjkqrK7Oi7nL/NAbevuuXBAA

Deep wound is definitely worth to have on your bar

Vernphos · Jan 26, 2012, 04:32 PM // 16:32

Ok, some updates. New Team build (with new derv at top!).

Yes; I know I have 3 minion masters, but I would not run three. The Rit/nec is just a possibility. I really have one free hero slot.

DERV: I have an open slot. I was using AoHM last night...but it seemed kinda clunky. Other options for that slot:

Defense: SY, I am unstoppable, feel no pain (i will be drunk), mystic regeneration (to get more use of the 20% ench bonus)

Offense: Whirlwind (although I never see the point of this with a scythe)
Dodge This (cheap adrenaline skill, unblockable, shout so no downtime)
Iamthe strongest (I still like this skill)
Reap Impurities (I am leaning towards this, especially with withering aura)
Wearying strike (sucks that they made this 6 adren now, but still good)

HEROS: As for the last slot, what do you folks think I am missing? Lets vote on it! I used up all three necros (do you think I need 2 copies of botm? I could put deathly swarm in)

Smiter monk : a little extra healing, but has RoJ and SoH for scythe boost

Paragon: Would enable me to take the shouts off one of the necs and give him curses.

mesmer: good old fashioned damage. i'm leaning this way.

MM: Should I run two full minion masters? What's everyone think of the Rit/ minion bomber? kind of gimmicky and enchant heavy, but it really works. If I ran him I could replace The two Minion masters and bring Mez and smiter...mmm.

Anyway, comment away!

mortenya · Jan 26, 2012, 06:08 PM // 18:08

for you, take ermite's attack. you can replace one of your attacks with it, but get it on your bar. think about taking death's charge as well. so you can shadow step into a mob, staggering force, ermite's attack and deal a huge packet of damage.

on PI mesmer, replace power spike with waste not, want not, they will use every other interrupt before PI, at least they did for me.

i dont understand all the MMs. not that they have bad builds, i just can't fathom having so many. if you plan to run a minion bomber, put jagged bones on one of your minion masters, they one with shambling horror, imo. putrid bile should be on one of them, and with so many minions you should run dwayna's sorrow. also, on your MM with prots, imo, run protective spirit, aegis, and shield of absorption. shield guardian is meh, and in normal mode, spirit bond is not as good as the others.

as a melee, you want to be taking heroes that make you better, with this build honestly you'd probably have better success running and AP caller build. get a smiting monk with SoH and an orders necro or E/N or D/N. mark of pain would be a good fit as well.

for the minion bomber, they're good, if gimmick, only explosive growth and boon of creation are really needed. get a weapon with 20% ench mod on it.

that's all i can think of off the top of my head. just try it out and see if it works for you though.

Vernphos · Jan 26, 2012, 06:55 PM // 18:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by mortenya

for you, take ermite's attack. you can replace one of your attacks with it, but get it on your bar.

I fail to see how eremite's is better than Pious assault. +20 damage vs +50? and a quicker recharge?

Quote:

Originally Posted by mortenya

on PI mesmer, replace power spike with waste not, want not, they will use every other interrupt before PI, at least they did for me.

This is a decent suggestion, i can try it. I was watching for the KD effect last night and Gwen seemed to use it all the time...

Quote:

Originally Posted by mortenya

i dont understand all the MMs. not that they have bad builds, i just can't fathom having so many. if you plan to run a minion bomber, put jagged bones on one of your minion masters, they one with shambling horror, imo. putrid bile should be on one of them, and with so many minions you should run dwayna's sorrow. also, on your MM with prots, imo, run protective spirit, aegis, and shield of absorption. shield guardian is meh, and in normal mode, spirit bond is not as good as the others.

So I knew this would be confusing. You should disregard the last slot. I just wanted to put up the rit/nec to see what people thought. The real team build uses (for the moment) the two MMs with hybrid skills. I have a 8th slot that is available, for any hero that seems to fit. Was looking to get opinions on that.

My feeling about this new build, since I took out the SoGM hero, is I really want two MMs now...lots of extra bodies around soak up so much damage. if I went down to one MM and the one SoS...i start to feel naked out there.

Quote:

Originally Posted by mortenya

as a melee, you want to be taking heroes that make you better, with this build honestly you'd probably have better success running and AP caller build. get a smiting monk with SoH and an orders necro or E/N or D/N. mark of pain would be a good fit as well.

As the only real physical char in the group, I feel weird doin the party wide buffs (orders, paragon shouts) for only me. Some of those necro orders are really good, but are expensive in health loss. It never seems worth it, just for me.

That said, a paragon could boost spirits as well as minions with a variety of their shouts. I just wish heros could bring TNTF and SY....ooohhhhh.

mortenya · Jan 26, 2012, 09:41 PM // 21:41

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vernphos

I fail to see how eremite's is better than Pious assault. +20 damage vs +50? and a quicker recharge?

ok, so, with Pious Assault, when and enchantment is removed, adjacent foes take damage. with Ermite's Attack, when an enchantment is removed, you STRIKE all adjacent foes. that means, if you're running SS, SW, VoS, you can hit every foe adjacent to the target, beyond the max of 3. i guess it might not matter if you can only ever hit 2-3 at a time anyways, but there is a reason D/W VoS spikers run Ermite's instead of Pious.

and you can always replace minions with /R pets if you can fit them into your build.

i took my MM out of my build for NM content while i was doing the Asura quests and didn't have any issues. might be more beneficial for HM though.