Curse

-Old 3FL- · May 13, 2006, 09:37 AM // 09:37

in cantha i always hench
or with 1/2 guildies
i never use players in cantha unless they r my mates
hench r much more reliable Imo
just take ur time

mega_jamie · May 13, 2006, 10:06 AM // 10:06

to all the Assassin hate I did Arbostone last night with 3 A/Mos (me one) i the group, a monk, a rit, a necro and a W/mo and a ranger.

I was the only A/Mo that didnt score a single strike of DP, simply becuase I let the warrior take the agro, run in, combo a squishy, hit a few more if i havnt been hurt, port out if I had.

So ther,e everyone stop your generic assassin hatred, it can be played well, apart from the rit and myself everyone on the team died once, so maybe ill start hating all monks because one got a bit too far of himself and died.

General Surena · May 13, 2006, 10:08 AM // 10:08

Use henchies, they never moan, discriminate [repeats himself for the billionth time

] and helped me beat the game without any real problem. Use a "+15 armour while attacking" set, skills like "Watch Yourself", Aura of Displacement, "Way of Perfection". Call properly, react fast to the enemy mobs, and you can also beat "Unwaking Waters", "Raisu Palace", missions many players claim to be unhenchable.

Don't trust people too much, the amount of stupidity is disturbing at times, very disturbing. How people tend to act behind the fake anonymity virtuality gives them, is astonishing.

Thom · May 13, 2006, 10:12 AM // 10:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pillz_veritas

Advice from one monk to another monk:

1. If an assassin Joins your group, Don't Panic! Most of them arent 1/2 as bad as forums make them out to be.

2. If 2 assassins joins your group, look at your skill bar... Does it have "Vigorous Spirit" on it? If not Add it to your bar, as it will now be a great heal for alot of the party.

3. If 2 or more sins are in your group, and one dies, Dont rez them untill after the fight is over, it is a waste of energy for a primary healer, let some one else in the group handle it.

4. Consider brining live vacariously if you know what is going on ahead will be alittle bit hairy and you might need self healing. Keep it on your selves at all time and the assassin will now be your best ally!

5. if 4+ assassins joins your group, leave! No group should be that top heavy in any one class.

-Monk with Vigorous spirit glued to his skill bar, and loving the fact that i can cast it on a sin and not have to heal them again untill it wears off.

My revisions as a monk:
1)If you have one assassin in your group, put the fear of god into him, so he is scared of dying. Seriously, get on him hard about how you don't want to see him dying before you begin. It really is as bad as this forum indicates.

2)Run boon/prot not healing. Vigorous spirt may be good for warriors, but your monks should stay out of healing for most faction areas. This is what I do and this is the advise I've had from all the pro healers I know. Vig Spirit is an ok spell, but it is a bandaid on the larger problem-- the inability to stay within healing range and avoid multiple aggros without defense skills.

3)As a healer, don't bother carrying rez. Let a wa/mo or me/mo bring a hard rez and keep that player alive. If your group really needs a rez, never rez in battle (monking 101).

4)Learn not to draw aggro as a monk. Keep skills like "live vicariously" far away from your bar.

5)The idea that being heavy in one class is bad makes no sense. Figure 1: IWAY. Figure 2: Ranger Spike. Figure 3: Blood Spike... Yes all those are PvP, but that only means that the competition is tougher and the enemies are more diverse. I have no problem with 4-5 warriors in my group if they have well balanced, damage oriented builds.

Vigorous spirit is an ok skill, but it fails in an removal heavy enviroment and won't do too much if your assassin is tanking. Heal is the inferior monk line and should only be used if you have significant amounts of prot already incorperated into your group.

Add me to the list that has a minimal assassin policy. I know that the class can be played well, but I find Wa/Mo's to be more experienced, reliable pve players.

=HT=Ingram · May 13, 2006, 12:25 PM // 12:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by thunderpower

P.S. Thirtsy River with 3 assasins was the fastest i have ever seen (one was only lvl 16)

Oh HELL yea. I even forgot about doing some of those. but HELL YEA... Teleport that level to all heck!!! lol Bet thats a breeze now with assasins...

Don Zardeone · May 13, 2006, 12:30 PM // 12:30

Everybody sucks.
Not just assassins.

I'm new to the entire monking thing (did similar things in other games but new to GW monking) but I made a monk just to see how bad people really are and to see how I could be a better warrior for my pve monks =D

What I noticed is that pretty much all assassins are an energy drain.
They all tell me they have 70 armour and that they can tank just as good as a warrior.

NO YOU DONT
My warrior
Full dragons with ascalon boots...

90 vs ele, 100 vs phys, -7 damage absorb (super absorb-3, shield-2, ascalon-2), +16 vs all on shield, +5 vs all on weapon+defenseskills...

That's a freaking 111 vs ele and 121 vs phys with -7 damage reduction.
Add to that my defenseskills from the warrior primary or /E, /Me secondaries and a warrior will be beating shit up with a whopping al of 140+ (I always try to bring watch yourself)

ASSASSINS HAVE HALF THE ARMOUR OF A WARRIOR

YOU CANT TAAAAANK

capische?

Then there's the thing with warriors always being tanks, We're not tanks, we're warriors. We do damage too. Don't ask me to bring 5 stances either >.<

And assassins, don't tell me you can do more damage than a warrior. When you're dead...YOU DONT DO DAMAGE

/rant

Cador · May 13, 2006, 12:34 PM // 12:34

Quote:

Originally Posted by Avarre

I should start a PvE assassin

Some classes face prejudice, importance is to have enough capability in PvE to prove haters wrong and influence overall opinion.

Avarre, after reading that post about assassins being the same as mesmers i knew you would come on, and teach us to pwn with assassins.

Phades · May 13, 2006, 12:35 PM // 12:35

Warriors do more damage than assasins.
Warriors have more armor/defense than assassins.
Warrior energy pool is nearly completly freed up to use skills from the secondary, while the assasin is one of the most energy constrained professions out there.

Why people continue to attempt to use the assasin in a role it wasnt designed for is beyond me.

LifeInfusion · May 13, 2006, 12:54 PM // 12:54

NO. You guys don't get the cause.

It is a new class and many of the people that only own Factions use this new class since the core professions are basically limited by inability to access all their skills.

That is why there are so many Rt and A.

Also, many players (new and old) don't get the purpose of an assassin. It is to ASSASSSINATE, which means you don't want to go rampaging in to kill the monster/player.

Definition of assassinate:
To murder (a prominent person) by surprise attack

http://www.thefreedictionary.com/assassinate

captainccc · May 13, 2006, 01:00 PM // 13:00

Haha, you are getting the same love as mesmers. Its only because most ppl dont know how to use an assassin. They dont know how to tele, do dmg, then tele back. Same thing with mesmer, most ppl dont know how to use them correctly ppl just kinda put them aside taking 1 every now and then.
It sucks but what can ya do exept educate the little newby assassins.

~Captain CCC

captainccc · May 13, 2006, 01:04 PM // 13:04

Quote:

Originally Posted by Don Zardeone

Everybody sucks.
Not just assassins.

I'm new to the entire monking thing (did similar things in other games but new to GW monking) but I made a monk just to see how bad people really are and to see how I could be a better warrior for my pve monks =D

What I noticed is that pretty much all assassins are an energy drain.
They all tell me they have 70 armour and that they can tank just as good as a warrior.

NO YOU DONT
My warrior
Full dragons with ascalon boots...

90 vs ele, 100 vs phys, -7 damage absorb (super absorb-3, shield-2, ascalon-2), +16 vs all on shield, +5 vs all on weapon+defenseskills...

That's a freaking 111 vs ele and 121 vs phys with -7 damage reduction.
Add to that my defenseskills from the warrior primary or /E, /Me secondaries and a warrior will be beating shit up with a whopping al of 140+ (I always try to bring watch yourself)

ASSASSINS HAVE HALF THE ARMOUR OF A WARRIOR

YOU CANT TAAAAANK

capische?

Then there's the thing with warriors always being tanks, We're not tanks, we're warriors. We do damage too. Don't ask me to bring 5 stances either >.<

And assassins, don't tell me you can do more damage than a warrior. When you're dead...YOU DONT DO DAMAGE

/rant

LOL, assassins arnt supposed to tank there supposed to assassinate. FTW are people telling you. Do assassins tell you they can tank? Well dont judge your thoughts on people that dont know how to play there class! Assassins can poon if used right. Warriors are tanks lol...assassins are divine.

led-zep · May 13, 2006, 01:14 PM // 13:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by mega_jamie

so maybe ill start hating all monks because one got a bit too far of himself and died.

yeah but no doubt he was dragged into the battle by the charging ass assins while trying to heal them

unholy guardian · May 13, 2006, 02:53 PM // 14:53

My pve sin builds rules, well at least in terms of survivabilty while still doing decent damage, the only 3 things that effect me are

1 i'm not quite level 20... so my rigoursly tested pvp dude was kinda better
2 I can't find sin runes... but neither did my pvp dude
3 No one lets me in their party, so i went to tyria, people seemed to appreciate me more...

If anyone cares the build is pretty good, but i really need a zealous mod and a 20% enchanting mod..for my daggars.

1 critical eye
2 way of perfection
3 jagged strike
4 wild strike
5 critical strike
6 shadows refuge
7 watch yourself
8 rez

i have been working on improving it, but the goal of this build is pretty much use skills fast enough to work with the 6 second recharge of critical strike, that combined with natural crit hits is very good healing, each one gives 25

combine that with watch yourself and the +15 while attacking armor, and heck i sometimes out tank a warrior... i know this is kinda the thing sins arn't suppose to do, but in pve when there is a mob, and not any real key target i.e a boss, you kinda need something like this

besides when there is a lot of key people to kill you can switch your build, tengu, which are usually pretty annoying, in tyria i ripped the whole mob to screads after the henchmen died. Just watch out for enchantment strippers, there is a lot more of them in tyria than cantha... either way i liked the build i worked on, it came usuful for that one non-stop mob quest, where after you kill like 200 people you move on to a new place with new insane mob riotss.

once i can add in somewhere a teleport skill or something, it will be a lot better, but for the moment, yeah you take more damage than warriors, but it seemed my dude could out heal them when i had way of perfection... it just works, but im going to go work on it some more

nslasha · May 13, 2006, 03:19 PM // 15:19

i too have an a/mo whos beaten the game and gotten 15k imperial armor

the easiest way i saw getting into the group was after they accepted me, asking if they wanted me to spec to healing if there was only 1 monk. 9 times out of 10 the PUG liked this as it took some of the pressure off the monk when things got a little dicey. just stick with it, you'll get there soon enough

nslasha · May 13, 2006, 03:21 PM // 15:21

Quote:

Originally Posted by Phades

Warriors do more damage than assasins.
Warriors have more armor/defense than assassins.
Warrior energy pool is nearly completly freed up to use skills from the secondary, while the assasin is one of the most energy constrained professions out there.

Why people continue to attempt to use the assasin in a role it wasnt designed for is beyond me.

i <3 sweeping generalizations.

PtiteDiablesse · May 13, 2006, 03:50 PM // 15:50

I find that looking at assassins as a glorified bodyguard/kill finisher helps to play the class a little more successfully. Here's what I mean:

Where are you when the battle begins? If it's anywhere in the aggro range of the enemy, or the aggro bubble of your tank, chances are that you are out of position.

You should probably be close to you caster core, especially the monks when you are not actually in the midst of battle. You're not a tank, but you are the next best thing. Which means that if a critter gets through your warrior, you're going to need to run interference. This is about the only time you should actively engage anything in a toe-to-toe fight, to help protect your caster backline. If your casters are worth their salt, they'll recognize what you're doing and keep you appropriately healed and drop assorted goodies on you and your new dance partner (like a Meteor Shower or something).

Aura. Of. Displacement. I really shouldn't have to say any more. It lets you port in to the midst of things. After hitting this, all you're really going to want to do is hit your '1', '2', and '3' keys, then port back out. Of course, if things are going well, and critters stay focused on your tank, you may stay engaged with the target for a longer period of time. AoD is your panic button. If things go wrong, cancel AoD and it'll port you back out. If AoD is removed or shattered, you get ported out... and out of range of the caster that just targeted you.

Defensive skills. Contrary to what you might think, an assassin is not a front-loaded killing machine. You're supposed to be trained in the art of stealth and evasion. So pack a defensive skill/healing skill/sprint skill. Ideally, you'll pack all three. This means you have something to fall back on if things go sour and your AoD is unavailable to you and your monks are tapped out of energy.

Hit and run. Yeah, it's a felony. But it's also how you should be operating, and about the only way you're going to survive most battles. When you're not delivering your attack combo, you are a human shield for your casters. Actually, that pretty much goes for any class. Whatever you are, you're going to be a better tank than your healers. If something aggroes you, don't run around in a panic and fob it off on your healer. Rather, try to fob it off on a tank, or in a pinch a ranger/assassin (because if they're any good, they'll have an evasion skill and better armour, and will be able to survive slightly longer). If you can't get it off, then tank it.
What? A caster tanking critters?
Yeah. For the simple reason that all other classes are going to be better tanks than your monks. Generally, a monk's self-heals are not going to be nearly as effective as his heal ally skills. Packing Word of Healing and Heal Other means I can heal you for 170 plus Divine Favour (in other words, I can heal you for 200+), and they have very fast recharges. The best self-heals are generally going to manage about half that, and they tend to take a little longer to recharge.

AtomicMew · May 13, 2006, 10:13 PM // 22:13

Assassins (like mesmers) are more PvP oriented. It's just the nature of the concept. In PvE, even a well played assassin will only be as effective as a half-assed wammo. If you think being able to half-spike an "important" target is recquired, or desired even, in a general PvE pug, you are wrong. At best, you kill your target that would have been killed later anyway. At worst, you don't kill your target, screw up aggro, and get your monks killed.

Pug's are not NEARLY that coordinated. Maybe if you had an organized guild group, you could take full advantage of the sin's abilities, but I mean, why bother? A decent pug can work just as well, albeit a bit slower.

PS: pls stop using the word gay as a blanket negative descriptor. I boot people like that whether they're the millionth assassin or a one in a million monk.

Strange Brew · May 13, 2006, 10:24 PM // 22:24

I have been through the rejection think many times with both my ranger and my mesmer, however they are now my two favourite characters. Finally (in Propechies) I am understood and , dare I say it, appreciated. My guildies always love having either chara along.

The problem in factions is the initial flush of noobism (even from experienced Tyria players, wa/mo in particular). If the assassins are being rejected, or kicked from groups, then they must evolve into something intelligent. It's really a process of natural selection. Will just take a little time for the good assassins to replace the weak ones.

In fact, exclusion from ppl groups may not be a bad thing. I have always learned my trades best when playign with henchies, because in hench groups you actually have to think. Assassins should perhaps go underground for a while, hone up their builds and then unleash their fury on an usnsuspecting world.

I monked yesterday with an excellent guildie monk and the two us spent the whole mission all out on the assassin. In the end we had to leave him dead and clean up without him. One player needing two monks brings more problems to the team than benefits imo.

I'm off to play with my sin now, always been a sucker for the underdog !

Phades · May 13, 2006, 11:13 PM // 23:13

Quote:

Originally Posted by nslasha

i <3 sweeping generalizations.

The numbers were crunched before factions was released and was largely brought about in a elementalist versus warrior damage dealing comparison.

The defensive aspect should go without any argument. Higher innate defense added with common defensive skills in addition to class specific passive damage rediction on top of that is no contest.

The rest didnt require any kind of cynical rhetorical statement.

Then again, with your "monk" assasin leetness, i suppose you think firestorm, mending, and "i will survive" are leet too.

kaldak · May 14, 2006, 12:19 AM // 00:19

Sweeping generalizations almost always require cynical responses.