Curse

capblueberry · Aug 31, 2006, 07:55 PM // 19:55

ok im trying to cap Aura of Displacement and Flashing blades for my assassin but am havnig a bit a trouble cause by the stereotype that all assassin's are automatically tanking noobs, this is definately not true

as a matter of fact i brought dash with me while doing missions and my group got mad at me cuz they said "its a waste of a skill" where as i was using it to get out of aggro and NOT tank, so what exactly am i supposed to do wen if i tank i get yelled at and if i try to escape i get yelled at? hmmmm

its ridiculously hard to get through the (imo boring and repetitive) factions campaign with a sin

also assassins r perfectly capable to laying down insane amounts of damage, i did 100 just yesterday to a lvl 21 enemy, and over 140 damage using a dual attack in the same area vs someone else

NOT ALL ASSASSINS ARE NOOBS, SURE SOME OF THEM WILL ATTEMPT TO TANK, BUT NOT ALL OF THEM, SO DONT COUNT OUT A VERY GOOD DAMAGE DEALER JUST CUZ OF THIS DUMB STEROTYPE!!!

Nevin · Aug 31, 2006, 08:08 PM // 20:08

Bring Recall or Return. They're the two best non-elite methods of getting out of aggro.

Epinephrine · Aug 31, 2006, 08:08 PM // 20:08

Right - I can only offer this perspective on it.

Any time you take an unknown player into your group you are at risk of getting an idiot.

Some professions can be idiots without screwing up the mission too much. An ineffective warrior can still absorb aggro. An ineffective ranger plinking away from the back isn't really a huge burden. An ineffective assassin keeps dying, and is a drain of healing power etc.

So, even if all else was equal, assassins, due to light armour and being in the front are going to require more skill not to be a weak link. If the R/Mo in the back is contributing all of 10 DPS over the mission, who cares? He's not wasting your healing power at least, and he might be helping a bit.

Add that to the fact that many people play assassins because they felt it would be cool to tear things apart with a vicious melee monster... which the assassin isn't. Oh, they can be good, but I've met few good assassins. So I'd say that not only is it more obvious when the assassin is an idiot, but the % of idiots rises. So why would you pick a probable weaker link when you can have someone who can do the job? I don't take random assassins unless I'm feeling really generous/confident. I'd be just as well off taking Nika as the average assassin player, and the fact is that Nika won't d/c when she dies, complain about the monks or aggro needlessly (well much). And I don't take Nika. Ever. Because she sucks too.

Sekkira · Aug 31, 2006, 08:16 PM // 20:16

Assassins can't be expected to learn anything if they aren't in a real group that will give them the freedom of learning how to play their class properly. Just try playing the class properly with henchmen.

Edit: When I invite an assassin to the team (I don't mind taking up to 4, beyond that gets a little ridiculous though), I expect them to play their class. If I see a critical barrage, they're out. If you wanted to play with barrage in the mid line, you should have rolled a Ranger. This goes for fast cast nukers too. You want to play an ele, go roll one. When I invite you on the team as a mesmer, I expect you to play one.

Sol Deathgard · Aug 31, 2006, 08:28 PM // 20:28

I actually had an argument with a former guild member that became so heated I ended up leaving over this same BS. & funny thing is he kept saying my argument was childish, yet he proved my point everytime. here was my argument

Most of the people that hate sins are either people that never played one, have one but die all the time (these are the same people that play every other class horribly too, they are just bad players) or they are just going by what other people have told them.

My ex-guildie kept telling me my argument was crap, yet I then asked him if he has a sin or has ever played one, and he of course said no. I then asked him how does he know they suck if he hasn't played one, to which his answer was, they have squishy armor, to which I responded, they have about the same armor as rangers, which is a little better than any caster armor, to which he said but every other class is easier to keep up. my answer to that is, they have many ways to get outta trouble, if they aren't using them, it's the player that sucks, not the class. Over & over we went through this argument, everytime he was proving my point yet refused to see it. In the end he was just believing the same BS that other believe because they don't have the skills to play a good sin, or won't because they see too many noobs play one badly.

One last thing to think about, as you read these forums there are alot of crappy players that have Warriors, Monks, Eles, Rangers, Necros, Mesmers, & Rits, so why aren't they called crap classes too?

Huntster · Aug 31, 2006, 08:34 PM // 20:34

Why don't you just cap them with henchies?

ZenRgy · Aug 31, 2006, 08:38 PM // 20:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by capblueberry

so what exactly am i supposed to do wen if i tank i get yelled at and if i try to escape i get yelled at?

Delete your assassin.

Also, AoD Is one of the easiest caps on the game.

Epinephrine · Aug 31, 2006, 08:47 PM // 20:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sekkira

If I see a critical barrage, they're out. If you wanted to play with barrage in the mid line, you should have rolled a Ranger. This goes for fast cast nukers too. You want to play an ele, go roll one. When I invite you on the team as a mesmer, I expect you to play one.

That's ludicrous. That's why we have TWO professions. I invite based on role. Looking for interrupter. Looking for area damage. Looking for healing support/damage mitigation. A curse/blood necro running damage reduction curses, well of power and well of blood is a powerful mitigator/party-support player. So is a ritualist with the right spirits/build. Or a trapper who knows what he's doing. Or a prot monk. Or a warder ele with some heal skills.

Then again, I've also played through Hell's Precipice with no monk (nor ritualist, as they weren't around) in the party, and done Ring of Fire with an all ranger group, and I enjoy having creative uses of professions. An Attuned Was Songkai hexer? Great! It cuts the energy costs wonderfully, and you can spread them like mad.

It's narrowminded to not explore your profession combination's abilities - as bad as always playing the same build.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sol Deathgard

Most of the people that hate sins are either people that never played one, have one but die all the time (these are the same people that play every other class horribly too, they are just bad players) or they are just going by what other people have told them.

Have you read a thing here?

It has nothing to do with whether good assassins exist. It has to do with the fact that a bad sin can spell huge trouble, while a bad (insert X) often doesn't.

I played my assassin to 400,000 XP when I had my first death, then I deleted her. It was challenging, and I thought I could make it to survivor (2) at least, maybe to (3). I messed up trying for a skill cap with henchies against an ele boss. Didn't feel like trying again, so deleted her as I didn't care much for her anyway - it was the challenge. I dare you to tell me that playing to 400,000 XP before dying is a sign of a bad player; I play an assassin just fine, thanks.

It has to do with what you'll get when you invite them. The dumbest player on the planet can run a MM effectively enough to contribute to the party. Same is true of many classes. It actually takes skill to run an assassin well in PvE, and skill is remarkably lacking in GW. So when you invite an assassin to the group, the odds are that he's just as good a player as anyone else in the group, but is playing a class that takes more work to play well - especially in that setting.

So it isn't that assassins are necessarily worse (though I do think that there are more bad assassin players, that's a separate argument - and that situation will likely change as the poor players give up on it) - it's that assassins are vulnerable, and tougher to play well. And a bad assassin is obvious, which leads to the perception of assassins as bad. A bad MM isn't a burden to the group, it's just less effective. A bad Ritualist spirit spammer is just a little less effective, but doesn't tend to doom the party. A bad assassin sucks up heals, aggros enemies, dies repeatedly and ends up contributing essentially nothing, because he's at 60% DP and dies every fight. Which is preferable, a guy who's firing arrows innefectually from the back, or putting up spirits that are of marginal value due to poor placement and attributes, or manageing a half strength minion army because he just can't keep it rolling, or the 60% DPd assassin who still tries tanking?

Sekkira · Aug 31, 2006, 08:52 PM // 20:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by Epinephrine

That's ludicrous. That's why we have TWO professions. I invite based on role. Looking for interrupter. Looking for area damage. Looking for healing support/damage mitigation. A curse/blood necro running damage reduction curses, well of power and well of blood is a powerful mitigator/party-support player. So is a ritualist with the right spirits/build. Or a trapper who knows what he's doing. Or a prot monk. Or a warder ele with some heal skills.

Then again, I've also played through Hell's Precipice with no monk (nor ritualist, as they weren't around) in the party, and done Ring of Fire with an all ranger group, and I enjoy having creative uses of professions. An Attuned Was Songkai hexer? Great! It cuts the energy costs wonderfully, and you can spread them like mad.

It's narrowminded to not explore your profession combination's abilities - as bad as always playing the same build.

Since when does "Play your class" mean "Play this particular cookie cutter build. ie "Play a necro" = "Play SS or MM", "Play an ele" = "Bring meteor shower, meteor, fireball etc"?

I really don't care what build you're playing, as long as we have damage, damage mitigation and a bit of healing somewhere along the lines in pretty much any form. I just care that you play your goddamn class.

Edit: On top of that, the secondary profession is there to enhance the capabilities of the main profession. A Critical barrage and fast cast nuker is doing it the other way around.

Ole Man Bourbon · Aug 31, 2006, 08:59 PM // 20:59

Quote:

Originally Posted by Epinephrine

Right - I can only offer this perspective on it.

Some professions can be idiots without screwing up the mission too much. An ineffective warrior can still absorb aggro. An ineffective ranger plinking away from the back isn't really a huge burden. An ineffective assassin keeps dying, and is a drain of healing power etc.

This really speaks to the importance of proper tanking. When you play the Deep, for instance, you can really understand that Warriors (and Warriors alone) should be holding ALL aggro before anyone else gets in enemy range. In PUGs throughout the game, you see people nearly ALWAYS failing to follow this method, and this is the main reason people die. The average PUG Assassin seems to be the most common victim of a group's failure to follow a proper tanking procedure (granted, usually because of the stupid Asswarrior himself).

I'm leveling up a 2nd Warrior for FoW farming on the European server, and I'm really getting worn out by Eles, Rangers, Rits, Assassins, and Monks dashing up to the enemies and unloading before I even get ready to tank, much less establish aggro control. Back to henching through the game for me I guess.

Cherno · Aug 31, 2006, 09:01 PM // 21:01

I don't think the overall perception is that of tanking sins anymore. While you will still get some or plenty, there are many many who know how to play their role.

The problem is with the idea that anything beyond the core classes isn't NEEDED. We went through an entire game without having sins and rits. Why can't I get past this game with them? It is easier to get into a group as a Crit Barrager, because you are basically a ranger when you can't get a ranger.

Many people will take rits, but ask them to either set up as defensive rit lord (aka prot monk) or restoration (healing monk). If there were more monks around people wouldn't even take a rest rit because they would say they can't do the job as well as a monk and therefore not NEEDED.

New classes need to not only provide something new, but something VALUABLE and unique to a team that makes people seek them out as a viable alternative to what is already the established core.

I see Paragons having some slight problems with this unless the majority of their quality party shouts/buffs are tied to their unique attribute. Otherwise, another class (likely Warrior) will just go /P secondary with them.

Dervishes appear to be be able to fair better than assassins as a melee class because they have the ability to tank and deal damage much better than the often times very delicate sin.

Another reason people see sins as problems is the agro break. A party who properly uses their tank to grab the agro, generally doesn't have many other melee characters in it. MMs have theirs, but those can be ranged or be in such a quantity to block the enemy in. A sin, even one who waits for agro to "lock" on the tank, has to still get in the middle of things to do what they are traditionally though to do, even if it is to take out a stray soft target. That increases the potential for agro break, thus exposing the back line, thus chaos.

Zinger314 · Aug 31, 2006, 09:08 PM // 21:08

Quote:

NOT ALL ASSASSINS ARE NOOBS, SURE SOME OF THEM WILL ATTEMPT TO TANK, BUT NOT ALL OF THEM, SO DONT COUNT OUT A VERY GOOD DAMAGE DEALER JUST CUZ OF THIS DUMB STEROTYPE!!!

Yes, that's the type of Assassin we want; one who spams in all caps.

Beatrix of Alexandria · Aug 31, 2006, 09:18 PM // 21:18

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sekkira

Edit: On top of that, the secondary profession is there to enhance the capabilities of the main profession. A Critical barrage and fast cast nuker is doing it the other way around.

Maybe, but before I got Rit Lord, I was running around with Barrage on my rit and wreaking PvE havoc with it while waiting for spirits to recharge. That may or may not be considered "enhancing the capabilities of the main profession", but it definitely worked well.

Ole Man Bourbon · Aug 31, 2006, 09:24 PM // 21:24

Lol, Barrage on a Spirit-spamming Rit? Can't help but giggle a little.

Beatrix of Alexandria · Aug 31, 2006, 09:25 PM // 21:25

Haha yeah, I admit it's funny...no arguement there! But it did work well as a temporary thing to do when lacking a good wand and having to wait almost a full minute for spirits to recharge. Better than being useless.

Hand of Ruin · Aug 31, 2006, 09:34 PM // 21:34

I don't care if it's a steriotype or not, I reject all assassins flatly and without exception.

As has been mentioned before, someone who is bad at one of the core classes is still benefieting the group in thier own way. Not as much as a good player obviously, but they rarely are hurting the group. A bad (typical) assassin does nothing but hurt the group.

Honestly, if you don't want to hench half the game and spend twice as long finding groups as other people, delete your assassin and make something more useful.

Silver_Fang · Aug 31, 2006, 09:47 PM // 21:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sekkira

Since when does "Play your class" mean "Play this particular cookie cutter build. ie "Play a necro" = "Play SS or MM", "Play an ele" = "Bring meteor shower, meteor, fireball etc"?

I really don't care what build you're playing, as long as we have damage, damage mitigation and a bit of healing somewhere along the lines in pretty much any form. I just care that you play your goddamn class.

Edit: On top of that, the secondary profession is there to enhance the capabilities of the main profession. A Critical barrage and fast cast nuker is doing it the other way around.

I expect you dont like Minions Bomber aka Rt/N as well. How about Atunned Nuker? Attuned Hexer?

The secondary profession is not there to enhance the capabilities of the main profession. The secondary profession is there to let you choose a good combination that fit your style. Touch Ranger, FC Nuker, Atunned Nuker, Attuned Hexer, Minion Bomber, Crit Barrager, Axesassin. As well as some un-named build such as using Elementalist main to spam Heal Party, we may call them E-storage supporter.

Its like saying the only way to play a set of card is Blackjack.

Zinger314 · Aug 31, 2006, 09:58 PM // 21:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by Silver_Fang

I expect you dont like Minions Bomber aka Rt/N as well. How about Atunned Nuker? Attuned Hexer?

The secondary profession is not there to enhance the capabilities of the main profession. The secondary profession is there to let you choose a good combination that fit your style. Touch Ranger, FC Nuker, Atunned Nuker, Attuned Hexer, Minion Bomber, Crit Barrager, Axesassin. As well as some un-named build such as using Elementalist main to spam Heal Party, we may call them E-storage supporter.

Its like saying the only way to play a set of card is Blackjack.

But zero of those things are more effective in PvE than the corresponding primary classes.

Won't go into it further, as it's off-topic. I recommend you make another one.

Horseman Of War · Aug 31, 2006, 10:16 PM // 22:16

Quote:

Originally Posted by ZenRgy

Delete your assassin.

Also, AoD Is one of the easiest caps on the game.

awarded for most ignorant post of the day.

And to the girl who said stuff about crit barrage assassins-> you must be joking. Crit Barrage, if done right, will totally own its ranger counterpart. You dont NEED a 16 in marksman if you are getting over one-third critical hits. The armor is the exact same (id actually prefer some of the assassins' armor to the rangers +elemental) and as long as you dont try to do much else but critical hits and marksmanship this build is much better than a ranger (not counting a lack of pet)

I did a ToPK the other day with 2 B/P, 1 Crit Barrage asn, me as MM, and one healing rit.

It was one of the most amazing things you could ever have seen. Four of us even got ectos in that run.

Personally, for my assassin, I really enjoy alliance battles (its true tho ive given up on pve lol). I use recall and deaths charge- cast recall on like 3 people, jump in with zealous daggers, and teleport like I was playing a freaking Marvel Nemesis character.

I get thanked by people for doing a good job, and I appreciate the respect my performance gets me.

Silver_Fang · Aug 31, 2006, 10:30 PM // 22:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zinger314

But zero of those things are more effective in PvE than the corresponding primary classes.

Won't go into it further, as it's off-topic. I recommend you make another one.

Effective? thats a subjective thing, it really depends on group set up.

Its like bringing 2 Monks into mission, sure, 1 more Monk is more effectivein healing, but they are less effective on dealing damage. You can finish most if not all of the mission with only 1 Monks, bringing 1 more Monk is only for safety.

They bring something to the table where the corresponding primary can't do.