Curse

moriz · May 17, 2006, 11:46 PM // 23:46

i've seen too much stupidity in regards to this class. yes, it include the wammo-mentality assassins running around and dying. it also include the idiots on this forum and others running their mouths about how they will not allow any assassins in their groups. some of the smarter idiots will disguise their idiocy by saying things such as: "there are too many bad assassins around, so they're not worth the risk." as much as i want to personally strangle some of them, i've come to the conclusion that the best way to help other assassin players is by educating them. hopefully, this little guide can do that.

1. overview
you are a crappy mesmer, dressed in crappy ranger armour, wielding little butter-knives, and spamming a few cheap circus tricks for damage. if your character fits into that description, it must be an assassin. the only saving grace to this helpless profession is its teleporting ability and huge burst damage output. this guide will focus on these two topics the most.

2. movement and positioning
you're not a warrior. you don't have the armour for it. and such, when in battle, you should not physically run more than the area of your aggro circle. you have your shadowstep ability for a reason: use it. however, you must use it carefully. many times i've seen assassins shadowstep to hit a mob's backline, only to accidentally aggro another mob nearby. the result of that is often not pretty. and such, every assassin should have these two skills down pat: ability to shadowstep effectively, and the ability to pull a mob better than any other profession. that means: bring yourself a flatbow.

in a pug, volunteer to be the puller. ask your pug-mates to stand well back as you pull. when pulling, pull the mob far enough so that when you shadowstep to its backline, you do not aggro any other mobs nearby. your pug-mates and monks will thank you for it.

learning to shadowstep at the right time is also important. while anet has given the ability to spike to the new factions mobs, they did not give them the ability to switch aggro quickly. because of that, after you pull, you must wait for the mob's battlelines to establish itself. that means: warriors first, casters in the back. when that's established and your pug-mates are holding the aggro, quickly shadowstep in and unleash your combo on the backline, and then shadowstep out.

3. attacking
keep your combos short. taking too long with your combo and you'll get interrupted in some way, whether by blinding or aggro shifting to you. to that end, i recommend forgoing the lead attack. you can do this by using two easily obtained skills: golden phoenix strike, and palm strike {e}. golden phoenix only requires you to be enchanted to work, and palm strike simply counts as an unconditional offhand attack. using either of these two skills you can pull off your killer finishing move much quicker than using the traditional attack chain.

4. build making
a) damage
as an assassin, you're main job in pve is to take out the backline. you can accomplish that by a: doing huge raw damage. b: spread some nasty conditions. or c: both. since your first attack is taken by golden phoenix/palm strike, you have to accomplish that with your finishing move. be creative. you can chain off your combo in many different ways.

b)movement
you generally won't have room for a running buff, so ignore those completely. for shadowstepping, you can use any of the various skills. i personally like Aura of Displacement {e}, since it rolls the shadowstep-in and shadowstep-out in one skill. it also works well with golden phoenix, since it's a maintained enchant.

c)self heal
self heal is a must. don't leave home without one. your monk will thank you.

the rest of the build is up to you. keep in mind that you'll want to do something when not executing your combo, so bring skills according to what you want to do when your combo is recharging.

5. conclusion
and that's it. remember to keep in mind all the things listed here, and you'll do fine as an assassin. if everyone follows these guidelines, the stupid wammo image of the assassin will be dispelled in no time.

the beginner's guide to the pve assassin is brought you by the Moriz clan and the ugly Vigilante.

unholy guardian · May 18, 2006, 12:55 AM // 00:55

Too bad we can't just dump the sin haters into a dumpster... the guide looks pretty nice for the sin who just logged in today for the first time

fallot · May 18, 2006, 07:02 AM // 07:02

Quote:

Originally Posted by moriz

i recommend forgoing the lead attack. you can do this by using two easily obtained skills: golden phoenix strike, and palm strike {e}. golden phoenix only requires you to be enchanted to work, and palm strike simply counts as an unconditional offhand attack. using either of these two skills you can pull off your killer finishing move much quicker than using the traditional attack chain.

Excellent advice.

Bloodied Blade · May 18, 2006, 10:32 AM // 10:32

/agree with fallot

I'm getting so tired of people not accepting my assassin into a group with the dumb excuse of "assassins die too quickly". So do elementalists, necromancers, and mesmers... We really are getting a bad rep from the assassins who have no idea what they're doing (I'm guilty of looking like one against the Ritualist boss outside of Sheng Ji...that thing is EVIL).

Great guide though moriz.

moriz · May 18, 2006, 12:47 PM // 12:47

that ritualist boss outside of senji's corner is just ridiculous. anyone and everyone can and will die to it if the group is not prepared. when you die to him, don't blame yourself. instead, blame the monk or the ritualist. a quick protective spirit and shelter will make that boss a piece of cake.

mahousaru · May 18, 2006, 02:27 PM // 14:27

Quote:

Originally Posted by moriz

you are a crappy mesmer, dressed in crappy ranger armour, wielding little butter-knives, and spamming a few cheap circus tricks for damage. if your character fits into that description, it must be an assassin. the only saving grace to this helpless profession is its teleporting ability and huge burst damage output. this guide will focus on these two topics the most.

Thanks for the guide, I especially like the above quoted part, because after many rebuilds I decided on mes as a secondary class, not because the skills compliment the assassin (I have tried to make a fragilie ass and it doesn't quite work becaude of the high energy cost of fragility). The main reason is there are just too many sins out there so I can rebuild my skills towards as a mes and be useful to the PuG in another role. Well that is if they actually let me in the group in the first place, or give me a chance to rebuild my char if they do let me in....

Bloodied Blade · May 18, 2006, 09:20 PM // 21:20

Well, I'm at temple now...it's surprising how efficient a coordinated trio of assassins are (not because they're assassins and I have any bias, but because you would think that just the fact that there were 3 of us at a time on one thing would attract some amount of aggro).

mahousaru · May 19, 2006, 10:29 AM // 10:29

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bloodied Blade

Well, I'm at temple now...it's surprising how efficient a coordinated trio of assassins are (not because they're assassins and I have any bias, but because you would think that just the fact that there were 3 of us at a time on one thing would attract some amount of aggro).

I was teamed with 2 other sins once and we actually coordinated our attacks to port in one after the other and port out as soon as our combo finished (no tanking what so ever). This worked really well as every target we attacked this way died. We carried on untill our necro/monk had to leave so we lost our recall point. I have yet to find another group of sins willing to work this way in a PuG, I should have really added the other 2 players to my friends list and try to group with them again.

Trixz · May 19, 2006, 10:33 AM // 10:33

Nice work moriz

moriz · May 19, 2006, 09:37 PM // 21:37

in a group with 2 or more assassins, i generally try to get them to attack different targets. nothing is as satisfying as to have the monk, ritualist, and maybe even an ele or mesmer monster fall before the rest of the group is finished with the mob's frontline.

anyways, since the response to my beginner's guide is positive, i might even write a longer and more detailed guide for intermediates, complete with pictures. however, given my wierd playing and work schedule, don't count on it.

by the way, how you guys managed to get 3 assassins into a pug without it exploding is beyond me...

Drizzt Dourden · May 20, 2006, 01:52 AM // 01:52

awww, nice thing you wrote here! i'd really like to see some more guides.

cyberjanet · May 05, 2007, 04:54 AM // 04:54

Quote:

Originally Posted by moriz

anyways, since the response to my beginner's guide is positive, i might even write a longer and more detailed guide for intermediates, complete with pictures. however, given my wierd playing and work schedule, don't count on it.

Well I hope you can do it. I find your guide interesting. I never bonded with my assassin and when I play her, I do so usually as a Critical Barrager. After reading this I'm inclined to dust her off and try out some new strategies and tactics.

XvArchonvX · May 05, 2007, 06:44 AM // 06:44

While this is a very good guide, especially to the finer points of aggro establishment and it's role in assassin movement, there are some points I don't fully agree with as well as think were left out.

A lead attack is not necessarily a bad think on a PvE 'sin. A more important point than choosing an offhand that doesn't require a lead, I believe, is finding an attack combo that recharges quickly. A good IAS such as Flurry can get an attack chain with a lead off before there is much risk of shutdown. I've actually found that when running a Moebius build, I am much more likely to get to Moebius and recharge my other attack skills when I use an IAS to speed up the damage to get my chain off before my allies deal too much damage. Also, relying on something such as Golden Strike can be dangerous at times since caster enemies, particularly hex spreaders and enchant strippers, are a lot more likely to go off target and may easily strip your enchantment even if your team has established aggro. While this is not to say that using a Golden based build is bad, it is really best used only in an area where enchant stripping is minimal to null.

Also, I didn't see Assassin's Promise or Moebius Strike mentioned. These two skills are some of the most well suited to the PvE environment. While I won't argue AoD and EPS to be bad elites, AoD has a long recharge for a PvE environment and EPS can easily cause energy problems in battles facing too many enemies since it costs 10 energy and doesn't trigger a critical strike. Assassin's Promise can give solid energy management as well as allow for stronger spikes by using the black line when used properly in the right areas. Moebius can also allow an assassin to adapt to the strength of the enemy by allowing attack chains to continue infinitely when in use with Death's Blossom.

Finally, I would also argue that a self heal is not always necessity as long as you have some means to reduce damage taken to ease pressure off your monks such as Critical Defenses.

With these points aside, I think this is a really good guide that I hope many new to the profession will give a serious look at.

Skuld · May 05, 2007, 09:04 AM // 09:04

Quote:

A lead attack is not necessarily a bad think on a PvE 'sin.

Yeh, but most of the leads just suck.

Laenavesse · May 05, 2007, 09:14 AM // 09:14

Some suggestions in terms of the lead attack and all that shizzaz.

With the decreased difficulty of monsters in Normal Mode now with the implementation of Hard Mode, as well as the ability of having supped Heroes, enemies die very fast. Though it's always nice to just go right into the fray, by the time you get to the third more powerful attacks (Offhand + Dual + whatever) the enemy is pretty much dead. Therefore, sticking with leads for the majority of the campaign is probably better.

A good combo that I use is [skill]Jagged Strike[/skill] [skill]Wild Strike[/skill] [skill]Death Blossom[/skill] [skill]Moebius Strike[/skill]. Works pretty much everywhere. All these skills have very fast recharge times (1 + 4 + 2 +2 in that order) and if you get blocked or interrupted, you could just run around bleed everyone with Jagged Strike xD [Note: The skill icon for Jagged Strike has yet to be updated, the recharge time is 1 second].

In harder areas and even Hard Mode I would suggest using the Hex conditional offhands (ie, the Black chain, like Black Spider Strike or Black Lotus Strike) along with the Moebius chains rather than the Golds. Though both Enchantment removal and Hex removal are prevalent moreso in hard mode, i think you get more bang for your buck with the hex, especially with Black Spider Strike (poison FTW!)

A skill I used when I was first starting out was Recall (before the buff to it recently) and that acted as my getaway skill. If such a skill is a must, then I would suggest that one.

One thing I have to note is "getting quickly out of the fray" is not as prevalent anymore, because of the earlier noted AI change and all that. By the time you killed your guy, chances are most of the mob will be dead and turned into minions if you have an MM hero. There, having a shadow step is not necessarily...necessary. It's nice, but not essential. Good for starters though.

Another BIIG tip is...if the cast is waaaaaay in the back and requires you to be deep into the mob to kill it...don't go back there. They'll all focus on you and your monks won't be able to get to you unless they want to kill themselves. Instead have the casters and long range people work on it until it's a little clearer. If you have the whole teleport in and back deal going on then I guess you could go for it, but I still wouldn't recommend it.

Another note is, as a sin, if half the party is dead, most likely you'll be part of that group and won't really have a chance to res. Back in my early days I was actually the opposite xD I was usually the last one alive and was rebirthing everyone once it was relatively safe. Now I just don't bother with it, not because I'm dying more (that would be sad...) but because my heroes and the AI usually last longer. Though there are times when I'm still the last one standing and I'm looking at my dead henchies and am like "...Well damn. *goes to commit suicide*" So depending on how confident you are and how much value you place in it, a res may or may not be high on the priority list.

Self heal, on the other hand, is a nice thing to have and good to counter against stacks of degen (like poison and bleed). If anything, it will delay the degen long enough for the monks to not worry too much before they finally decondition you. I prefer Shadow Refuge over Feigned Neutrality due to the fact that I keep fighting instead of running away to heal. But that's a personal preference.

So looking at the skill bar in the end, I think this:

I think a sin should have around 4 attack skills. That leaves room for a self heal, a res (if necessary), some sort of teleport skill (Recall is a good non-elite), and any other buff skill (critical eye, critical defense, way of perfection, etc.). Or even another attack slot if you so desired. I sometimes bring Mending Touch with me if I know a place will be condition heavy, especially with blind. This also makes it easier on monks.

Seeing that this was written LAST YEAR and there have been skill changes, this guide might should be updated to fit with current skills and game play level xD And I'm not saying I'm a pro or what I say is the "best" thing but hopefully the suggestions and notes will help

Pyro maniac · May 05, 2007, 09:17 AM // 09:17

lead owns: [skill]Unsuspecting Strike[/skill]

I mostly use one of these combo's:

[skill]Aura of Displacement[/skill][skill]Golden Phoenix Strike[/skill][skill]Twisting Fangs[/skill][skill]Contemplation of Purity[/skill]
CoP is to make it easier to shadow step back and removes 1 hex and condition at the same time

[skill]Palm Strike[/skill][skill]Twisting Fangs[/skill][skill]Wild Blow[/skill]
Either Wild Blow first to break through stances or last as finisher

[skill]Unsuspecting Strike[/skill][skill]Wild Strike[/skill][skill]Twisting Fangs[/skill]
Though this one is just for skill capping. Can't finish the combo on normal mobs. especially when playing with hench (wich is almost all the time)

XvArchonvX · May 05, 2007, 03:53 PM // 15:53

Personally, as far as attack combos go, I have been using this as my lead and off hand lately:

[skill]Golden Fox Strike[/skill][skill]Wild Strike[/skill]

Jagged strike is generally pretty weak, even if it is spammable. Unsuspecting is rather energy heavy and provides only a few more points of damage than GFS if your target is under 90% health. Leaping Mantis Sting isn't bad, but crippling isn't really useful in PvE. Since I almost always use GFS in a moebius build, the recharge isn't really an issue. Even if it doesn't get recharged by Moebius, the recharge is still pretty reasonable.

Samurai-JM · May 06, 2007, 02:51 AM // 02:51

Yes a very nice guide indeed

The only part I don't like is being called a crappy mesmer, dressed in crappy ranger armour, wielding little butter-knives, and spamming a few cheap circus tricks for damage. Other than that, it works

For the most part, the lead attack issue is pretty much right here. The only time I ever use one is unsuspecting strike, but when I use that I kill enemies too fast and run out of energy since I cant follow up with something like critical strike. IMO the only attacks skills a basic sin would ever need in pvp is this:

[skill]Golden Phoenix Strike[/skill][skill]Death Blossom[/skill][skill]Moebius Strike[/skill]

If you can fit a build onto that combo you can do more than enough damage in any area. I usually use a critical defenses/critical strikes type build on top of it.

Laenavesse's gave some nice advice too. Especially the bit about when the backline of the mob is too far back, stay away from them if your going way out of your monks range.

I think I might make a more advanced guide eventually, maybe a complete guice to tactics, shadowsteps, builds, and other stuff like that. GJ moriz!

EDIT: I seriously just realized this is over a year old, and it still owns for new sins. GJ AGAIN!

Laenavesse · May 07, 2007, 04:18 PM // 16:18

Oh, something about the type of armor used would be good. It seems to be a toss up between Nightstalkers and Shrouded I think. I don't see many sins use Valkyrie, or even mention it anymore o.o

@ XvArchonvX:

Even if Jagged Strike is weak, it still makes them bleed

Plus in Normal Mode, the AI kill them so fast I still only get one combo off most of the time, if that D: I used to run Moebius in PvE, but now I just use Temple Strike with Wild Strike as my other off hand and DB as my only Dual. Things die too fast D:

XvArchonvX · May 07, 2007, 06:01 PM // 18:01

Quote:

Originally Posted by Laenavesse

@ XvArchonvX:

Even if Jagged Strike is weak, it still makes them bleed

Plus in Normal Mode, the AI kill them so fast I still only get one combo off most of the time, if that D: I used to run Moebius in PvE, but now I just use Temple Strike with Wild Strike as my other off hand and DB as my only Dual. Things die too fast D:

True, enemies often die before you pull off a chain in some normal PvE areas, but in those cases I either run with an IAS so that I can get in some damage before my team kills my target or simply run a different build all together. Unless there is a lot of hex removal and my allies aren't causing hexes, I generally just use Assassin's Promise builds here since the recharge allows you to spam any shadow step skills you have as much as you want.