Curse

Cuilan · Jun 11, 2010, 03:19 AM // 03:19

Physway is a pretty fail team set up. It's a gimmick that fails very often by the very people who made it in Underworld. People can run all sorts of awful junk and pass, but it doesn't make it good.

maxxfury · Jun 12, 2010, 12:51 AM // 00:51

Aohm on the OP listed scythe bars? wut? yano, cos its fits perfectly with the orders bot

xDwink Or is there a really good reason for it to be there? .........

HigherMinion · Jun 12, 2010, 09:43 AM // 09:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by maxxfury

Aohm on the OP listed scythe bars? wut? yano, cos its fits perfectly with the orders bot

xDwink Or is there a really good reason for it to be there? .........

They shouldn't really be there; Arrogant's just a lazy RED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GO. They need to be changed.

maxxfury · Jun 12, 2010, 01:00 PM // 13:00

Just with the moaning on pvx about the crap bars ppl were putting in variants, then reverts and been sent here for alt phys bars :P i found it kinda funny that the ones here were borked too :P

HigherMinion · Jun 12, 2010, 05:59 PM // 17:59

I know what you mean. It's come to a point where we need to start making compromises and less guess-work/theories. The idea's been planted, and now it's time to see what they do with it.

Myotheraccount · Jun 12, 2010, 08:48 PM // 20:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cuilan

Physway is a pretty fail team set up. It's a gimmick that fails very often by the very people who made it in Underworld. People can run all sorts of awful junk and pass, but it doesn't make it good.

Just because you can't run this build doesn't make it bad. Besides, you are from [KISS] so anything you say is invalid.

DigitalFear · Jun 12, 2010, 10:50 PM // 22:50

Quote:

Originally Posted by Myotheraccount

Just because you can't run this build doesn't make it bad. Besides, you are from [KISS] so anything you say is invalid.

Word, lol.

Chthon · Jun 13, 2010, 02:22 AM // 02:22

Did a run last night with Aina, Cuilan, and 5 PUG people. Went surprisingly well for a PUG and surprisingly not-super-slow (1:50) considering that it was a PUG and featured quite a few delays on account of the retard and one sin discoed with 3 or 4 quests to go. Few things of note:

1. One retard aside, PUG people were surprisingly decent -- even the guy who had never finished UW before. Everyone always complains about PUGS, but this one gave me a little hope.

2. Putting the SoS back in makes a ton of difference. Everything that involves mindblades is much easier with a bunch of Clumsy-proof spirits hacking away while your sins are doing a boatload of DPS to themselves and not so much to the mindblades. It also allows you to do the 7-1 split for 4H if you like, or a very conservative 6-2 split. It also makes mountains faster and easier if you happen to get a blocked path.

3. Aina made the sins (or at least most of them, I wasn't sure) take IAU. That went a long way towards solving the problem with noob/sloppy sins getting stuck in meteor showers.

4. Shadowstep on a sin or two makes UWG much easier.

5. I've said several times before that the run from Plains to Pools is way too risky for the time it saves. The better alternative in my mind (which worked fine last night) is to: kill the wailers, kill the horsie, immediately push forward into the pops so that the spawns from the horsie don't aggro to you, kill the pops, kill the patrols, pull and kill the wailers, run past the horsie to the dryders. Adds maybe one or two minutes while being 1000x safer.

HigherMinion · Jun 13, 2010, 08:59 AM // 08:59

They're getting better. Either that or the bad players have already given up... /ponder

maxxfury · Jun 13, 2010, 01:26 PM // 13:26

Quote:

Originally Posted by HigherMinion

They're getting better. Either that or the bad players have already given up... /ponder

The bad ones are still running Burning speed in sc's >;P and the cool kids are playing "balanced"* way again :P *well its more balanced that a team all soling different places :P

PANTHOR · Jun 13, 2010, 06:00 PM // 18:00

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chthon

Did a run last night with Aina, Cuilan, and 5 PUG people. Went surprisingly well for a PUG and surprisingly not-super-slow (1:50) considering that it was a PUG and featured quite a few delays on account of the retard and one sin discoed with 3 or 4 quests to go. Few things of note:
...

I was the sin who discoed

"Panthor Temporary"

Hope to get a run with you again. Pugging makes me want to cry.

Baddie ER's. Clueless Necros and SoS rits that insantdie on 4h split.

But love this teambuild when it's with people that can play their bars.

HigherMinion · Jun 14, 2010, 12:42 AM // 00:42

Ha. I see you got the name changed at last. Now to get some of those faggy builds updated! =)

Arrogant Bastard · Jun 14, 2010, 01:06 AM // 01:06

Quote:

Originally Posted by HigherMinion

Ha. I see you got the name changed at last. Now to get some of those faggy builds updated! =)

Too lazy. You or someone else do it and PM me links.

K THX BAI

Malician · Jun 14, 2010, 09:50 AM // 09:50

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chthon

Did a run last night with Aina, Cuilan, and 5 PUG people. Went surprisingly well for a PUG and surprisingly not-super-slow (1:50) considering that it was a PUG and featured quite a few delays on account of the retard and one sin discoed with 3 or 4 quests to go. Few things of note:

1. One retard aside, PUG people were surprisingly decent -- even the guy who had never finished UW before. Everyone always complains about PUGS, but this one gave me a little hope.

2. Putting the SoS back in makes a ton of difference. Everything that involves mindblades is much easier with a bunch of Clumsy-proof spirits hacking away while your sins are doing a boatload of DPS to themselves and not so much to the mindblades. It also allows you to do the 7-1 split for 4H if you like, or a very conservative 6-2 split. It also makes mountains faster and easier if you happen to get a blocked path.

3. Aina made the sins (or at least most of them, I wasn't sure) take IAU. That went a long way towards solving the problem with noob/sloppy sins getting stuck in meteor showers.

4. Shadowstep on a sin or two makes UWG much easier.

5. I've said several times before that the run from Plains to Pools is way too risky for the time it saves. The better alternative in my mind (which worked fine last night) is to: kill the wailers, kill the horsie, immediately push forward into the pops so that the spawns from the horsie don't aggro to you, kill the pops, kill the patrols, pull and kill the wailers, run past the horsie to the dryders. Adds maybe one or two minutes while being 1000x safer.

Here's the reason IAU is invaluable even in a good team: there are lots of good ways to dodge MS in controlled circumstances, but even skilled assassins will end up getting knocked down here and there. UW is long; Terrorwebs feature in every area, especially Pools; peeps get bored. Even if they stop being lazy long enough to avoid wiping on an unlucky 4HW fight, I can feel the aggravating slowdown when A/Ws are on the ground and not killing.

From what I've seen, PUG rits, necs, and imbasins all far surpass the (admittedly very low) requirements for easy, failproof UW runs.

Granted, their ERs can't even keep bonds up long enough to vanq Dalada Uplands, let alone do Mountains..

Comments on the run:

#1: You're very good. It's hard for the team to fail if both ERs know the basics of the build. It's also nice not to have to bond 5-6 in a vain attempt to keep your partner from losing his :-)

#2: After seeing the Rit hold 4HW so well, I want to know how possible it is for one ER to do the whole thing. Obviously unreliable without a solid rit, but would be fun to try.

#3. Plains is probably just a matter of the team sticking together. Like most cases, fails happen when people are out of heal range, running around and not attacking, or otherwise fubaring themselves tactically.

Arrogant Bastard · Jun 14, 2010, 11:03 AM // 11:03

4h without the rit stalling is extremely variable since the nerf to cons (can't reapply bonds fast enough).

The original strategy was the secondary ER keeping the rit alive solo, which worked well up until now. Before the update, I only failed using that strategy once because a PuG necro panicked when he saw me keeping Reaper alive solo (his first reaction was to aggro everything and draw them towards me :/)

Strife17 · Jun 14, 2010, 11:58 AM // 11:58

Fail Physway in underworld just now

because a A/W didn't knew that if you kill certain dreamrider, mindblades pop. and that if you kill those mindblades, more will pop.

This is very annoying with only 3 ppl alive.

lesson learned: do not take anyone with "Shana" in his IGN.

Malician · Jun 14, 2010, 08:04 PM // 20:04

Quote:

Originally Posted by Arrogant Bastard

4h without the rit stalling is extremely variable since the nerf to cons (can't reapply bonds fast enough).

The original strategy was the secondary ER keeping the rit alive solo, which worked well up until now. Before the update, I only failed using that strategy once because a PuG necro panicked when he saw me keeping Reaper alive solo (his first reaction was to aggro everything and draw them towards me :/)

No, I meant just the rit holding Reaper while the single ER stayed with team. Easily possible considering that we used to have rits hold the Reaper alone back before Plains was made easier.

HigherMinion · Jun 14, 2010, 10:54 PM // 22:54

Quote:

Originally Posted by Malician

No, I meant just the rit holding Reaper while the single ER stayed with team. Easily possible considering that we used to have rits hold the Reaper alone back before Plains was made easier.

It took alot longer though. We took out the BDR spawns on Poolside and the two BDRs by Pits and center-Plains. It was risky for PUG Rits who all died in the past, only Dis managed to survive the whole time.

...But he can solo FoW.

mage767 · Jun 15, 2010, 02:46 AM // 02:46

The rit should nicely place his spirits in a line or curve such that one meteor AOE does not kill all at the same time. Seriously, the rit should be able to take out an entire side (pool) by himself with the ER watching his/her back. The rit much slide lieft right only while changing spirits cast. Remove feast of souls from the bar (the rit mustn't heal - his job is to spam spirits). Failing to use armor of unfeeling is learning to fail.

Chthon · Jun 15, 2010, 03:04 AM // 03:04

Quote:

Originally Posted by Malician

#2: After seeing the Rit hold 4HW so well, I want to know how possible it is for one ER to do the whole thing. Obviously unreliable without a solid rit, but would be fun to try.

You mean 4H or the whole of UW?

Like Minion said, back in the day Dis (Cowbot) could reliably hold Pools side long enough to kill Pits side and get back to the reaper. It was a 7-1 split. Flair was able to do the same if I recall. (Note, however, that we were usually running an AP-MoP necro, and it was usually me, so the Pits side died very fast.) After they eased up the quest, I can only imagine that the Rit's job has gotten easier.

I'm somewhat torn between returning to the 7-1 split and repeating that 6-2 split we basically stumbled into. On the one hand, you've got maximum firepower on Pits side, but no insurance against the Rit failing; on the other hand, you've got excellent safety on the Pools side, but no insurance against the Horsemen shutting down the one ER on Pits side.

As for doing the whole UW with just one ER, I doubt it could be done, for a few reasons:
1. Lack of cast time versus high pressure. Even spamming the optimal skill choice at every opportunity, I don't think one ER could keep up with the pressure from 9 Mindblades or 3-4 Skellies.
2. Splitsville. Sure, the Rit can handle 4H, but can they handle Pits, Wastes, and UWG? There's too many times the ER would have to be in two places at once.
3. No backup if the ER slips up. It's rare to go a whole run without getting stripped or interrupted. With a second ER (player), you can play conservatively until ER (skill) recharges and usually keep your bonds up; just let the other ER take over more healing duties for ~45sec. Similarly, it's spam by the other ER that keeps people alive if an ER's bonds do go down. Without that second ER present, a lot of relatively minor problems with ER failure would turn into major disasters.