Curse

jibikao · Dec 09, 2005, 08:51 PM // 20:51

Thanks guy. That's all I need. I just need 100th and 101th time to make sure that spider doesn't poison. Why did people spread this non-sense rumor!!!!! I almost bought into it last night. lol

Makkert · Dec 09, 2005, 10:53 PM // 22:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by jibikao

Thanks guy. That's all I need. I just need 100th and 101th time to make sure that spider doesn't poison. Why did people spread this non-sense rumor!!!!! I almost bought into it last night. lol

Ah...the mother of all questions!

I think the reason has to be found in careless observations. There is also a very stubborn rumor on minions degenerating faster when you heal them (NOT true!).
I expect this rumor was born after someone healed his minions over and over, and saw that he couldn't keep up with the healing. From this, he made the conclusion the reason was that he healed them. After all, undead minions and healing? That doesn't make sense in a rpg way.

Fact is that the degen is cumulative, but not affected by healing. Wether or not healing is applied is irrelevant. The initial observation was incorrect, and people recognised something in the (wrong) assesment of the case: 'Like omg. My minions seem to die faster to when I heal them! This must be true!'.

I expect the same happend here. They saw a green glow around the spider from a petskill. Black Widows poison, that makes sense in a rpg way.

And then the false assumption spreads. Like poison, ironicly.

~ makkert

Pan Sola · Dec 10, 2005, 04:11 AM // 04:11

Quote:

Originally Posted by Valerius

If I have made any mistakes, please let me know. Thx

---------------------------------

-- :: Credits :: --

I'd like to thank the following for sharing their knowledge on pets and for doing tests to make sure the information we have is accurate.

- Dragon Incarnate
- Jenosavel
- Epinephrine
- shifteleven

Just want to bring up that according to Jenosavel and Epinephrine's latest research, pet armor goes by 3*Level+20, not 4*Level as the OP as this guide currently indicate. And since this one is called the "*Updated* Ultimate Pet Guide" and still on page 1 of the forums, while their guide is just "a guide to pets", new people coming here might decide this guide is more authoritative than the other one, and insist/convince all their friends that pet armor is 4*level.

Just want to bring that to your attention (-:

Pan Sola · Dec 10, 2005, 04:22 AM // 04:22

Another correction:

Quote:

Weapon masteries after 12 have diminished power increases.

This is only correct at Level 20. Research over at GuildWiki currently indicates the threshold of 12 is actually:
Level/2 +2

Thus, if a character is at level 19, weapon mastery after 11 (well, 11.5 to be exact) has diminished returns.

To calculate the actual percentage relative to Level 20 rank 12, use the following rules for Baseline:

For every rank under the threshold, +5
For every rank above the threshold, +2

Then to figure out the fractional power relative to Level 20 rank 12, use the follwing formula:

2^((Baseline - 60)/40)

of course, now you no longer have a pretty table, so the other alternative is to keep your table, but say it is only fully accurate at Level 20.

jibikao · Dec 10, 2005, 07:55 PM // 19:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by Makkert

Ah...the mother of all questions!

I think the reason has to be found in careless observations. There is also a very stubborn rumor on minions degenerating faster when you heal them (NOT true!).
I expect this rumor was born after someone healed his minions over and over, and saw that he couldn't keep up with the healing. From this, he made the conclusion the reason was that he healed them. After all, undead minions and healing? That doesn't make sense in a rpg way.

Fact is that the degen is cumulative, but not affected by healing. Wether or not healing is applied is irrelevant. The initial observation was incorrect, and people recognised something in the (wrong) assesment of the case: 'Like omg. My minions seem to die faster to when I heal them! This must be true!'.

I expect the same happend here. They saw a green glow around the spider from a petskill. Black Widows poison, that makes sense in a rpg way.

And then the false assumption spreads. Like poison, ironicly.

~ makkert

And the spider doesn't have higher dmg right? lol Just want to make sure. I keep hearing people say spider does a bit more dmg. I think that's because when they did the testing, it was Dire spider, since Elder has proven to give no damage/health bonus/penalty.

Jenosavel · Dec 10, 2005, 08:13 PM // 20:13

Read the newest guide. All information in it was rigorously and carefully tested. It says all pets deal the same damage per strike, and this includes the spider. If you manage to read the whole thing, I doubt you will have many questions left, and I can guarantee you won't have such basic ones.

This thread may be called the "ultimate" pet guide, but I can assure you that the guide I linked to has much more thorough information. It also includes all methods used in testing, for those skeptical of the results.

Peewee · Dec 11, 2005, 10:56 PM // 22:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by Epinephrine

This is all wrong. Your source is wrong. Elder has no bonus to damage and unmodified health. This has been tested a great deal.

thank u for clearing this up. but, then what ur saying is that elder is useless, no boost to health or attack, just back to plain old pet. however i am prepared to beleive, and tbh that suits me more. much prefer extra dmg over a pet which is better at sitting there and not dieing as quickly

AeroLion · Dec 12, 2005, 01:09 AM // 01:09

It's not a "plain old pet"; you have elder that has less of an attack than dire but more HP than dire and also more attack than hearty but less HP.

So, for attack: dire>elder>hearty
For HP: hearty>elder>dire

It's like rock/paper/scissors. The evolutions aren't inherantly better or worse.

glasseye · Dec 12, 2005, 05:02 AM // 05:02

I'm going to have to disagree that pets dont go through evolutions at level 20. I capped a Dire Black Widow on my Necro/Ranger and used to take it with me on quests and missions but put no points in beast mastery and no other BM skills besides Charm Animal. Just wanted to show it off. After a few weeks, the spider evolved from a Dire to a Hearty. After a couple days I was curious why it evolved since no one knew for sure what caused pets to evolve. I figured that it became a Hearty because I never used any attack skills. So I put some points into BM, (only about 9 or 10) and started bringing pet attack skills. I made sure to use the pet attack skills during each fight. After spending some time questing with the pet attack skills my spider eventually evolved back to Dire. Alot of you say that this can't happen, but in my own personal experience it can and did to me.

Epinephrine · Dec 12, 2005, 05:08 AM // 05:08

That's interesting - I've heard other people talk about similar things, with spiders. Never witnessed it, but it is possible that they might change I guess. Spiders may be the most likely pet to have a change, as you don't have 20 levels of accumulated tendencies. If that were the case though any dire pet should be able to change into a hearty, just by allowing it to die like crazy.

It is worth looking at certainly, I've never seen it happen, but that doesn't mean it can't.

Ednemak · Dec 13, 2005, 12:37 AM // 00:37

I've seen Dire Wolves in the wild before, how come no guide tells you about those?

Ill find one after I finish my homework

Beqxter · Dec 13, 2005, 01:49 AM // 01:49

I've never seen a Dire Wolf in the wild. Either they are Elder and south of Granite Citadel (there are a couple near Thul the Bull), or they are just generic snow wolves. If you have a screenshot that can prove me wrong, I'd love to see it.

Pan Sola · Dec 13, 2005, 06:45 AM // 06:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by Epinephrine

That's interesting - I've heard other people talk about similar things, with spiders. Never witnessed it, but it is possible that they might change I guess. Spiders may be the most likely pet to have a change, as you don't have 20 levels of accumulated tendencies. If that were the case though any dire pet should be able to change into a hearty, just by allowing it to die like crazy.

It is worth looking at certainly, I've never seen it happen, but that doesn't mean it can't.

Maybe it still happens at every 5 "levels"? Just that most people don't alter their play-style that much after pet is lv20, AND it's harder to farm exp points at lv20 (since quests and missions don't give pet exp).

To complicate things even more, character "level ups" beyond lv20 used to take progressive more exp points to acheive. While later updates has made the requirement flat (so easier to gain skill point for PvP unlocking purposes), it could be possible that pet "level ups" are still progressively harder after lv20.

It'll take quite a lot of patience and time to test this out indeed!

Ralphie · Dec 16, 2005, 03:48 PM // 15:48

My pet is level 11 but it didn't evole, how's that possible? :s (I did reset the name)

Epinephrine · Dec 16, 2005, 04:08 PM // 16:08

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ralphie

My pet is level 11 but it didn't evole, how's that possible? :s (I did reset the name)

Did it level when dead a lot? Did it not get involved in combat really? Did you speed level it?

A pet needs to do things to "earn" and evolution. Merely being on the bar doesn't guarantee anything. SInce it seems to move toward aggressive by dealing damage, and toward playful by taking damage it is important that it do these things. If you want playful/hearty let it run into combat and take damage frequently - even dying. If you want it to go aggressive you should tank, soaking the damage yourself while allowing it to kill your enemies (not necessary, but a good way to ensure it suffers minimal damage while dealing a lot).

Lower level opponents give it more damage dealing opportunities as it levels - the damage/experience ratio is better vs lower level foes, so it has a chance to accumulate more damage dealt and/or received vs foes that are lower level than vs high level foes.