Curse

Wyldchild777 · Sep 13, 2006, 02:47 AM // 02:47

Greetings,

It seems to me that lately there has been an influx of new players who seem to have not come to understand the basics of PvE. In an effort to remedy this situation, here is a list of guidelines that I feel should be basic knowledge for better PvE playing and survival.

1. Make sure you have a game-plan: All players should know the purpose of the party. Be it chest farming, finishing a quest, masters reward or bonus on a mission, or just plain clearing the zone, make sure all party members know why they joined the group.
2. Choose a party leader before you head out: The party leader is usually, by default, the person who put together the party and is at the top of the party list. A party leader chooses the path taken while in the instance, be it a territory or a mission. It is up to the leader to decide what the best direction to be taken is in order to fullfil the goals of the party. Other members can make suggestions, but it is up to the leader to make the final call.
3. Pick a single person to call priority targets: Usually, this should also fall to the leader. Other common practices is to let the lead warrior call the targets, or to let an offensive caster in the back ranks call one. Party members should follow this call since it is a priority mob. Priority mobs in general order of priority include: healing bosses, bosses with interrupts, high-damage bosses, warriors making trouble in the backline (attacking monks or "squishies"), and non-boss interrupters. Make a special note of when a monk healer calls a target. It usually means that target is making trouble for that monk and is preventing any healing from being cast (due to interrupts or the monk needing to kite).
4. All characters should bring one or two defensive skills: Be it a defensive stance, a self-heal, or a "run-away" point-blank AoE, bring something to defend yourself with. This not only lessens the load on your monks, but it also keeps you alive long enough for the monks to get a healing spell to you.
5. Watch for energy "pings": When a caster, especially a healer, pings their energy, it means that they are nearly out of energy and are about to run out of casting power. From a healer, that means the party is about to run out of healing from that person. From an elementalist, it means that no more "nuking" is going to come from that person. If there is a necromancer in the party with energy regeneration spells, such as Blood is Power, now would be the time to cast it on the one who pinged their energy. Also, for those who do ping their energy, don't wait until you can't cast anymore before pinging. Allow yourself an energy leeway of 2-4 castings of your important spells before pinging. The necro "battery" may not always be able to get to you immediately.
6. Watch your aggro: The range that monsters will attack you, known as your "aggro zone" or "aggro circle" is the lighter circle inside of your compass. While adventuring, make sure you do not over-aggro monsters by passing this circle on them. It should be the warrior's job, or sometimes the ranger's, to aggro mobs (also known as "pulling"). Others should wait in a safe location while the "puller" brings the mobs to the party. Along this note, also make sure to watch for patrol groups who might aggro while you are fighting. If additional groups aggro in this fashion, it is usually a good idea to run back along a previously cleared path until one or all of the groups stop following. If a retreat is needed, then someone should indicate so, either by saying "RUN" in team chat, or by drawing a path on the compass indicating the line of retreat.
7. Don't Rush: Unless you are going for a masters reward in a Cantha/Factions mission, there is no need to rush ahead after every fight. Most notably, this is meant for those warriors who don't want to lose their built-up adrenaline and hurry to the next fight so they can still use their skills. People need time to pick up loot, casters need time to evaluate energy reserves, and monks need time to make sure everyone is patched up (fully healed, conditions and hexes removed). Also, since many of the areas feature monsters that don't appear until they are aggroed, rushing ahead is a good way to end up with over-aggro, usually resulting in party members deaths if not an entire party wipe.
8. Don't Overextend: While fighting, make sure you do not overextend past the monks who provide healing in order to attack an enemy's back rank. The range of casting is just outside the aggro circle. If someone goes beyond this, it forces the healers to spend time running into range to heal, thereby delaying the time it takes to receive healing. This also places the rest of the party in jeopardy, as the healers must now run back to the others to heal them as well. It also places the healers, themselves, at risk because they are now in the midst of the other enemies that were rushed past in order to attack the enemies that were behind them.

Well, this is the most that I can think of. I will now open this thread to others who wish to comment or add guidelines of their own. Remember, this is just general guidelines. Strategies for running specific builds or adventuring in specific areas are not to be included here as there are plenty of guides elsewhere detailing those.

Merry meet, merry met, merry meet again,
Wyldchild777

Seraphis · Sep 23, 2006, 08:35 AM // 08:35

Good guide. If every player followed these guidelines, finding good pve groups would become alot easier.

Brian the Gladiator · Nov 12, 2006, 11:52 PM // 23:52

I agree with what you said but I think the section on pulling could use some work. Warriors sometimes shouldn't pull. Actually, they almost never should pull. The role of the worrior in most mission/quest/farming groups is to be a tank and take most of the aggro away from the rest of the party. Most of the time the warrior should just run into a mob of enemies and group them around himself so that they get into a mob and the aoe (area of effect) damage eles/SS necros/barrage rangers will be effective. Also, its less healing for the monks in the group because the warrior will be taking less damage because of high lvl armor.

A good Tank is only as good as their build. The worrior needs to run builds that compliment his role in his group which is to take damage. Using skills like "watch yourself", dolyak signet, "shields up", shield stance, defensive stance, bonette's defense, or maybe even some monk skills like healing hands or healing breeze are good choices. We all know that warriors have high damage capabilites and I'm not saying to abandon that but whats more important, dealing damage to a single fow or grouping all the enemies together so that your AoE guys can deal more damage to the whole group?

I have seen too many warriors "pull" groups of enemies right into the casters. The casters don't have enough armor to sustain the amount of damage done by the enemies and then our group is killed. That is why pulling isn't always the best choice for aggroing of mobs.

p.s. Yes, I have a warrior and have obtained over 2 million xp on him. I know some may have gotten more on their warriors but at least you know I'm credable.

Shaggeh · Nov 13, 2006, 12:18 AM // 00:18

Quote:

The worrior needs to run builds that compliment his role in his group which is to take damage.

This is how you see a Warrior's role in a group. This is not the only role Warriors fill.

The vast majority of non-Wammos consider Warriors as Warriors, not as Tanks. Their job is not to take damage, it is to dish it out. Which, before NF and some of the Elementalist buffs, they did unparalleled. Defensive abilities are there simply to keep you alive as you crank out the pain.

Secondly, Warriors should almost always pull. Running into a spawn is the biggest mistake anyone can make (And I say this from both my Warrior experience and my Monk experience.). This forces the Monks to chase after you if they want to keep you alive, which leads to aggro breaking off you and wiping the backline. When pulling with a bow you simply need to make sure the rest of the team: A) Both knows WHAT you are doing, and B) Knows where to position themselves.

The cases you gave are cases of improper pulling. Done correctly it's the best alternative. Done incorrectly it's simply inviting a wipe.

Eilsys · Nov 13, 2006, 12:22 AM // 00:22

Um, Defensive Stance OR self-heal? I always bring a Healing Signet...

And make sure everyone knows what build you're running. Smite Monks, Firestorming Warriors, healing Elementalists... say that you're doing that BEFORE you enter that mission. -.-

Brian the Gladiator · Nov 13, 2006, 12:58 AM // 00:58

ok, warriors can dish the damage, no doubt about that. Just make sure you know the difference between tank, and damage warrior. So many times do I see warriors using frenzy in pve and I think to myself, "are they asking to die and be hated by all?"

Secondly, Fire storm warriors, healing elementalists and MOST smite monks are bad, flat out. So, dont run those builds anyways...

Thirdly, Defensive abilities are not there simply to keep you alive as you crank out the pain. Evidence of this are skills like bonette's defense and defensive stance. These are not meant to keep you alive as you deal damage because they end when you use attack skills, how are you supposed to deal massive damage without using skills to boost damage output. Also, skills like dolyak signet and shield stance are poor choice if you are looking to "dish the pwnzor dmg" because they slow your movement. This means if the enemie happens to simply move away from you, you can't hit them because you are so slow.

Yes, the warrior defensive skills are meant to keep you alive and yes you can deal a lot of damage with a warrior but to maxamize your damage output you cant bring the defensive skills needed to stay alive sufficiantly like a tank can. You really have to pick one or the other, a tank or a damage warrior.

Tank build with some damage capabilities but primarily tank:

4 attack skills, dolyak sig, "shield's up", "watch yourslef", and res sig/rebirth

When you talk about monks chasing after warriors that run into huge groups of enemies I can't agree with you more. Warriors should never "over extend" away from their healers. What I'm talking about when I say, "dont pull groups" is when a warrior pulls a group of enemies and then runs away bringing the enemies to your casters (the rest of the group assuming you have 1 tank per party). This type of pulling (the type of pulling talked about in the original post) is not a good strategy and will result in a party wipe 99% of the time. The only thing that saves this style of pulling is good healing or an MM. This is why I say that a warrior should attempt to agro a group of enemies and then try to surround himslef wth these enemies in an attept to group them for the AoE damage and so the casters don't get ripped appart.

p.s. I also have significant experiance with every single class in the game other than paragon. (still working on it)

Shaggeh · Nov 13, 2006, 01:06 AM // 01:06

Quote:

Yes, the warrior defensive skills are meant to keep you alive and yes you can deal a lot of damage with a warrior but to maxamize your damage output you cant bring the defensive skills needed to stay alive sufficiantly like a tank can.

And nine times out of ten a Warrior in PvE doesn't need more than one defensive skill on their bar. The old Attack/Attack/Attack/Elite/IAS/Defensive/Optional/Res Signet layout is seen as being optimal for a reason. I, personally, consider a "tank" a wasted spot on any team I run, now more than ever due to the AI changes introduced not too long ago. You can't always control who enemies will attack, you can control how hard you smash them into the ground.

However, this is not the point of this topic and I won't drag it off course. Kudos on the guide Wyldchild. I'll re-post if I can think of anything that would be worthy of addition if I can come up with anything.

Brian the Gladiator · Nov 13, 2006, 01:20 AM // 01:20

Well Shaggeh, I hope you find a rit lord spirit spammer every time you make a pug because the dervishes in nightfall are going to rip your casters into pieces without a proper tank or someone with armor level boosts. "watch yourself = best skill ever!!!

Shaggeh · Nov 13, 2006, 01:28 AM // 01:28

Quote:

I hope you find a rit lord spirit spammer every time you make a pug because the dervishes in nightfall are going to rip your casters into pieces without a proper tank or someone with armor level boosts.

I've gone through Nightfall with a Dervish and Paragon already. No need for a Tank at all.

Omega X · Nov 13, 2006, 01:36 AM // 01:36

You should have put, "No greifing the group". People hate whiners/potty mouths/dumbasses/pricks.