Curse

nova-exarch · Feb 07, 2006, 01:51 AM // 01:51

Quote:

Yep. We tested the AL of pets via using Symbiotic Bond... ...you can easily determine their armor level.

Yeah, I read your methodology... I was just curious as to what could have caused the discrepancy Shift11 noticed.

It may have just been because he was trying to visually read the life scale? /shrug

Quote:

I don't go out looking for animal fights, just in case you're starting to get that impresion.

It was more funny before the edit.

BTW... In my perfect world I listed bears as blunt with an occasional slash. About the only thing that would ever get slashed as opposed to smashed (blunt) would be something as big as or bigger than the bear.

I'll have to take yer word on the boar thing until I see otherwise.

Honestly, so many animal attacks really don't fit into a perfect system anyway... I mean really... Is it the wolf's teeth "piercing" into your thoat or the "slashing" as they jerk them out... either way, yer dead.

Plus, I'm sure the devs had their reasons for not using certain types of damage for balance purposes. Otherwise it would be bear masters FTW in the undead zones!

gou · Feb 08, 2006, 04:20 PM // 16:20

The original guide here states that degen, conditions and armour ignoring damage sources are to be avoided when going to agressive/dire evolutions.
Point made is pet damage taken is a contributing factor toward playful etc.

Now I am in no position to argue this and my choices may be ill-informed but I trained my new warthog to L-11 agressive effectively and quickly fighting against the grasps, undead rangers (poison) and undead mesmers (fragility) in the Gates of Kryta mission. I chose undead because being r/mo, I cast judges insight on my pet, he now does holy damage and gains 20% armour penetration.
I have enough in smiting to make judges insight last 12 seconds, which is enough time for me to get 4 or 5 pet attacks out (ferrocious twice).
Pet at level 11 and 16 in beastmastery with judges up, pet attacks are slamming the undead for 100+ damage.
I realise this can't last forever, undead being level 13 themselves, but I recommend this method to anyone looking for at least an agressive evolution.

Epinephrine · Feb 09, 2006, 05:08 AM // 05:08

New information; I was able, with the help of a guildmate last night (Thanks Sol!) to capture a bear in pre-searing. So it isn't impossible, just really, really, really, really hard to do.

Oh, it's on my second account, so if you can't find me on as "Andrea Nile", try "Erin de Naal", for those who will be skeptical. I know I would be.

lyra_song · Feb 09, 2006, 05:24 AM // 05:24

Quote:

Originally Posted by Epinephrine

New information; I was able, with the help of a guildmate last night (Thanks Sol!) to capture a bear in pre-searing. So it isn't impossible, just really, really, really, really hard to do.

Oh, it's on my second account, so if you can't find me on as "Andrea Nile", try "Erin de Naal", for those who will be skeptical. I know I would be.

OMG you are shitting me? ._.

Pics

konohamaru heaven · Feb 09, 2006, 05:59 AM // 05:59

I always thought warthogs were Blunt damage dealers =/

Also I heard that Elder animals since they aren't super easy to get had a +2 damage bonus with no life penalty. Could this in anyway be true? Also I do think some pets do have an innate bonuses as it seems my pet warthog seems to absorb alot more damage than a warrior of the same armor class.

Epinephrine · Feb 09, 2006, 06:00 AM // 06:00

Quote:

Originally Posted by lyra_song

OMG you are shitting me? ._.

Pics

Unfortunately, I can't prove when I tamed it, but I made the toon today... (he's renamed in this shot, I thought Necessities was catchier) - showing the toon's age.

And a bitmap of the bottom corner, to defend against those who claim the jpg artifacts around the text are edits...

I'd love to show him off to any reliable witness, as this kind of claim is always treated with skepticism.

The method used: We used a bait-monk. My guildmate (Sol, thank you so much for showing me!) made a monk; took about a half hour of trying. He would get the bear's attention and run away from me, and I would try to time my Charm Animal to the moment that they left charm range. Eventually I got one to take, and the bear ran out of range, tried to break the charm but failed. It seems like it's a matter of timing it exactly right, and maybe luck. He said he got his in 5 minutes, the monk/ranger helping him got his in about an hour, so it can be tricky to time. We tried timing it to the brutal mauling, to the attack animation to get him pulled along in mid-swipe, but I think it was just him leaving range as I activated. We used a monk as bait, as most critters seem to prefer beating up monks.

Sol_Silverglade · Feb 09, 2006, 03:28 PM // 15:28

Quote:

The method used: We used a bait-monk. My guildmate (Sol, thank you so much for showing me!) made a monk; took about a half hour of trying. He would get the bear's attention and run away from me, and I would try to time my Charm Animal to the moment that they left charm range. Eventually I got one to take, and the bear ran out of range, tried to break the charm but failed. It seems like it's a matter of timing it exactly right, and maybe luck. He said he got his in 5 minutes, the monk/ranger helping him got his in about an hour, so it can be tricky to time. We tried timing it to the brutal mauling, to the attack animation to get him pulled along in mid-swipe, but I think it was just him leaving range as I activated. We used a monk as bait, as most critters seem to prefer beating up monks.

Hehe, like I said, I'm just glad it still works, and I'm not crazy

Given the difficulties we were having, I really was beginning to think that anet had modified Breaking Charm since last I'd tried.

For the curious, as Epi said, I tamed a presearing bear awhile back (after the patches that prevented hammer/knockdowns from being a viable charm option) in an identical manner.

Last night, the bear just stayed on me, and might have tried to break charm once. When I tamed mine, the bear was chasing monk out of range as I got charm started (since skills will resolve as long as they were initiated in range, even if the target bolts) and by the time the bear realized what I was up to, I was well outside of charmbreaker range. The bear proceeded to spam charmbreaker for several seconds, before the charm resolved, and I had a new pet...

I think I named him Bragging Rights at the time.

Anyway, like epi said, the key is getting your charm initiated just as the bear leaves range, and keep it moving (breaking charm range does appear to be a good bit larger than charm animal, so it does require some work.

Best setup is making sure you have a straight shot to run in.

I posted a screenshot on our guild forums last night that could be a good reference, spatially, if you look at the radar, but I don't have th link immediately available to repost. (If someone else finds it before I'm home from work today, feel free to post)

Finally, I actually had fraps running last night... But after half an hour of trial and error, I think I was worried that stopping for a second would cause the bear to beeline back to epi to break charm xD

....plus I was a little tired

----
Edit: Anyway, as promised, here's the pic:

I had started running back to Epi after the capture here - but you can see how the positioning worked out. I bolted directly away from him (it helps to have a straightaway for this - as it minimizes chances of the bear retargeting), angry bear in tow as he started his charm - The bear stayed on me, and was in the end so far out of range that it couldn't break the charm if it wanted to.

Dralspire · Feb 09, 2006, 03:32 PM // 15:32

Congratulations, guys ... that is amazing. You are an inspiration for the beastmaster in me.

Primus · Feb 09, 2006, 11:53 PM // 23:53

First off, Awesome guide fellas!

I lost track of how many times I've come back to look up stats, very good job you guys did.

After reading the entire thread, it seems I'm in a similar situation as Vermilion Okeanos. I have a level 20 Playful stalker right now

..

Long story short, after trainning a couple of lizards (dire and hearty), then a couple of stalkers (dire and hearty again), I wasn't happy with them.. So seeing as I do piercing I decided on an elder stalker. I started him on mergoyles outside gates of kryta. Using barrage, he had little chance to do any damage at all. After he hit playfull at lvl 12 (late right?), i switched to beast master build, letting him deal 100% of the damage. At level 14 (i think) I moved on to hydras (with the help of a monk of course). He was doing about 98% of the damage here. Level 15, 16, 17... and 20 passed and no evolution.

Here are a couple of screen shots:

http://img415.imageshack.us/img415/3264/gwpet15xu.gif
http://img268.imageshack.us/img268/8763/gwpet25eb.gif

And yes, I tried renaming him and resetting his name quite a few times, a couple in the second screen shot. What do you guys make of this?

lyra_song · Feb 10, 2006, 01:11 AM // 01:11

My moa is lvl 12 and has no evolution either :|

konohamaru heaven · Feb 11, 2006, 06:33 PM // 18:33

Pets dont only get bigger when they are hearty. They also become larger when they become playful too.

Ashleigh McMahon · Feb 11, 2006, 06:45 PM // 18:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by konohamaru heaven

Pets dont only get bigger when they are hearty. They also become larger when they become playful too.

I can surely back that up.

My level 20 dire moa was basically the same size as a level 3 moa in pre. It was the same with my elder moa. Now I have a hearty moa and it is 2-3x bigger than a level 3 moa.

Ash.

Alotia Slipfeet · Feb 16, 2006, 01:51 PM // 13:51

just a question if i have a playfull pet instead of a aggrasive pet is there still a chance he'll evovle into a dire? im trying him with my lvl 12 char and i have 12 attributes point into beastmaster.

Epinephrine · Feb 16, 2006, 03:16 PM // 15:16

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alotia Slipfeet

just a question if i have a playfull pet instead of a aggrasive pet is there still a chance he'll evovle into a dire? im trying him with my lvl 12 char and i have 12 attributes point into beastmaster.

Not to my knowledge; I have only heard of playful evolving to Elder, to Hearty and occasionally staying Playful, never to Dire.

o chief · Feb 16, 2006, 04:30 PM // 16:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by Epinephrine

Not to my knowledge; I have only heard of playful evolving to Elder, to Hearty and occasionally staying Playful, never to Dire.

ive seen a pet going from playful to dire. i was helping a guildie lvl up his pet which had just turned playful. i was farming griffins/minotaurs whilst he sent his pet in with no BM in to die then rez which he repeated over and over again. from what reading id done i was pretty sure he would end up hearty but to our frustration he ended up dire. so it is possible but im not sure why what we were doing triggered it.

lilsoulhunter · Feb 17, 2006, 11:54 PM // 23:54

Hmmm can one pet evolve 2x like.. from aggresive to hearty?

lilsoulhunter · Feb 18, 2006, 12:00 AM // 00:00

Can a Pet Evolve From Aggresive To Hearty or Playful?

Jenosavel · Feb 18, 2006, 06:10 PM // 18:10

Quote:

Originally Posted by lyra_song

My moa is lvl 12 and has no evolution either :|

Usually if a pet doesn't evolve by level 11 it will never evolve. If you were interested in an Elder-type pet, then you're good to go as Unevolved pets are statistically identical to Elder pets. Otherwise you may be out of luck.

The latest I've ever heard of a pet hitting its first evolution was at level 13, and since I've never once see a pet evolve at a different time than 11 and 15 I would have to say that the occurances are rare. It's more likely that if your pet hasn't evolved by 11 it won't evolve. You can always stick it out for a few more levels, though, just to be certain.

Quote:

Originally Posted by semantic

Maybe one of the factors is the amount of damage taken by the owner. As in, a pet has a greater chance of becoming Dire if its owner is consistently getting pummeled for large amounts. The one constant in my pet's training (while trying to minimize his damage taken / maximize his output, etc.) was the fact that the damage I received was minimal. It would make sense as a mechanic as well. If you are doing the tanking, the pet should trade health for damage, and vice versa if the roles are reversed. Perhaps someone has already mentioned that and I missed it.

This is entirely possible. As I said in the guide, the player's position on the battle field is indeed important to the evolution process, though not usually more important than other factors. What exactly that importance is, is hard to say. The evolution process is all about subtleties, I fear, so long as we can't see the game's code. Knowing why something works is so terribly much harder than knowing what works. For example, when training a Hearty pet with a warrior it would appear impossible if indeed the player need take a lot of damage. However, simply standing up in front and taking all the aggro (sometimes even sprinting in well ahead of my pet), even though I take 0's or 1's from every hit, still will give me my Hearty pet every time. (note: I'm talking of fighting Minotaurs outside of Ice Tooth Cave)

Quote:

Originally Posted by konohamaru heaven

Pets dont only get bigger when they are hearty. They also become larger when they become playful too.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ashleigh McMahon

I can surely back that up.

My level 20 dire moa was basically the same size as a level 3 moa in pre. It was the same with my elder moa. Now I have a hearty moa and it is 2-3x bigger than a level 3 moa.

Ash.

It was already mentioned in the guide as well:

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Guide

It would seem that the evolutions also are associated with the size changes observed – that pets change sizes at 11 and 15

I would like to clarify further here. Additional information that was left out of the guide due to time not allowing for finishing touches included detailed information on size changes.

It appears there are 3 sizes of pets: small, slightly larger than small, and about 2-3 times the size of small.

Unevolved pets are undoubtedly of the small variety, Playful pets are undoubtedly of the 2nd size, and Hearty pets are undoubtedly of the final size. This much was thoroughly verified.

Aggressive pets are either of the 1st or 2nd sizes, while Dire are either of the 2nd or 3rd. Time did not allow for me to confirm the preliminary observations (as is terribly important when trying to measure the size of these buggers as they meander around).

Elder pets are either of the 1st or 2nd sizes. If Aggressive pets are of size 2, then it is likely that Elder are also as it is unheard of for a pet to get smaller as it goes.

Quote:

Originally Posted by o chief

ive seen a pet going from playful to dire. i was helping a guildie lvl up his pet which had just turned playful. i was farming griffins/minotaurs whilst he sent his pet in with no BM in to die then rez which he repeated over and over again. from what reading id done i was pretty sure he would end up hearty but to our frustration he ended up dire. so it is possible but im not sure why what we were doing triggered it.

This is the first time I've heard someone claim such, and due to the vast number of pets Epi and I have cycled through I'm going to have to say that I'm highly skeptical. If this is true, I'm going to have to be a stick in the mud and not believe it until it can be repeated, since it won't help anyone in the mean time.

Quote:

Originally Posted by lilsoulhunter

Hmmm can one pet evolve 2x like.. from aggresive to hearty?

Please read the following:

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Guide

Pets undergo evolution up to twice in their existence, to our knowledge.

Quote:

Originally Posted by lilsoulhunter

Can a Pet Evolve From Aggresive To Hearty or Playful?

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheGuide

The current, common understanding of pet evolution is that your pet’s state exists on a slider. One side of the slider has the Hearty pet with high defense and low offense. The other side has the Dire pet with high offense and low defense. In the middle lies the balanced pet, the Elder.

The slider:
Dire <- Aggressive <-> Elder/Unevolved <-> Playful -> Hearty

Each time your pet evolves it moves one step in either direction, based on how you've been playing with it. Therefore an Aggressive pet can only go to Dire or Elder, as they are one step away from it. Only a Playful pet could become Hearty, as that is the only evolution within one step from Hearty. Does that help clear things up?

Pan Sola · Feb 18, 2006, 09:30 PM // 21:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by Epinephrine

New information; I was able, with the help of a guildmate last night (Thanks Sol!) to capture a bear in pre-searing. So it isn't impossible, just really, really, really, really hard to do.

Oh, it's on my second account, so if you can't find me on as "Andrea Nile", try "Erin de Naal", for those who will be skeptical. I know I would be.

Lovely. You ARE going to keep that character in Pre-Searing forever right? d-:

Shadwu · Feb 20, 2006, 07:28 AM // 07:28

Does pet gain xp when his dead?