Curse

Chthon · Jun 24, 2008, 02:46 AM // 02:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by deadman_uk

In RGB colour mode, the channels you get are Red, Green and Blue. What I think Chthon is talking about is lightness, A, B (LAB) which are the channels consisting in the LAB colour mode. IN LAB mode, you can select the lightness channel to avoid adding more noise. How so? Well when you sharpen something with colour noise, it will add noisey sharpening, so it's best to avoid the colour channel altogether, and just focus on the darks and lights of an image.

This sounds right.

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About the resize... Why not just resize all images to 100x100 and then have GW resize it? The reason's Joe's are so blurry was because they were resized from 254x254 right? Well going from 100x100 to 64x64 or whatever, wouldn't look so bad I think.

1. You lose data when you shrink the image. If, for example, you're going to display 200x200 in the end, then shrinking to 100x100 and then letting GW blow it up to 200x200 is always going to look a whole lot worse than just resizing to 200x200 in the first place. You never want to go through a step where you resize the image to something smaller than your final display.

2. Resizing at runtime is slow. It costs you FPS. And resizing things to make them bigger at runtime is absolutely killer (except resizing by powers of two). Again, you do not want to be using an image smaller than your final display if you can help it.

3. Image dimensions that are powers of two are good. (In fact, I'm pretty sure some programs won't even save a DDS with non-power-of-2 dimensions.) 100 is not a power of two. Use 128x128 instead.

4. The reasons Joe's are so blurry has nothing to do with the resizing. They look blurry because you didn't use a clearskills mod when you compared them, so the "skill fog" graphic is getting displayed over them. (Clearskills mods replace the "skill fog" graphic with a fully transparent graphic.)
They look stretched/misaligned because Joe forgot that the the outer 1/16 of the image is reserved for a border that's never displayed. The result is that the outer 1/16 of Joe's icons is not getting displayed. (Before you ask, no, I have absolutely no idea why that border is there or what it does. But it needs to be there for the icon to get aligned properly.)

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I don't know understand the "black was not taken to alpha" either. I do know you can create a new channel in the RGB window called alpha... what this does, I do not know. Chthon also mentioned "things don't flash properly"... I don't understand.

You want to save your icons with the black turned transparent (and the partially black turned partially transparent to the same degree that it's black), like so:

When it gets displayed in game, it gets a black layer behind it, like so:

Why do this? GW has some small lighting effects it performs on the icons sometimes -- for instance, the icon next a foe's cast bar will flash when you interrupt their skill -- that manipulate the two layers separately. The effect doesn't come out quite the same if you've instead given it a solid top layer that blocks the black layer behind it.

I said that black should be "taken to alpha" because the command to do that, at least in GIMP, is named "color to alpha."

deadman_uk · Jun 24, 2008, 03:31 AM // 03:31

Ok, I understand the alpha thing now but about this 100x100 thing. Why would anyone need their skill icons larger than 128x128? I run my GW at 1920x1200, using the small interface option. My icons there are roughly 64x64. I can't imagine doubling that size... the icons would look huge, even on my 24" monitor. Someone with a smaller monitor, would have even less reason to have their icons larger than 128x128.

That grey overlay over the default icons I believe is a bevel. I have used the clearskills mod, but I dislike having my icons looking like that. Perfectly square, no roundness... the default interface for the skillbar looks better in my opinion. Not to mention clearskills has a lack of numbering, lack of enchantment and hex signs too.

Shawn The Divine · Jun 24, 2008, 04:57 AM // 04:57

Quote:

Originally Posted by deadman_uk

Not to mention clearskills has a lack of numbering, lack of enchantment and hex signs too.

Yeah, like I said, it's not really a mod for beginners. I assumed most people would know which number their skills are on without needing to see the number itself. Same with enchantments and hexes. But I don't know, I guess the average pver wouldn't have that degree of familiarity with the skills.
Anyway, I found out that I deleted the .dds files at some point, so if I want to do it I'll have to remake it from scratch. If I'm extremely bored someday, I'll think about it, but it's not like the mod's got a huge following anyway.

Chthon · Jun 24, 2008, 08:04 AM // 08:04

1. You'd want icons over 128x128 if you, say, like big beautiful icons. You can adjust the display size any way you like. Some people might size up their skill bar just to enjoy the art. Plus, some of us don't like to read the tiny, tiny font on the small UI (or even the normal UI), and increasing the font size increases the default for the icons too.

2. Scaling down at runtime is better than scaling up. Unless you were really close, like 135x135 or something, scaling down from 256x256 would be better than scaling up from 128x128.

3. This is totally speculation here: Has anyone tried forcing mipmaps for a non-mipmapped image? Does it not crash, and does it use the mipmaps? If so, can you convince it that different images of the appropriate size progression are really mipmaps? If so, we could have our cake and eat it too by faux-mipmapping each icon at every size and sharpening each size as needed. I'll give it a shot tomorrow and see what I get.

4. The rounded corner thing is a different image from the fog overlay. You can make a clearskills mod with rounded corners and no fog if you like. (In fact I did. But you still wouldn't like it because I nixed the enchantment/hex/weapon indicators.)

deadman_uk · Jun 24, 2008, 12:41 PM // 12:41

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shawn The Divine

Yeah, like I said, it's not really a mod for beginners. I assumed most people would know which number their skills are on without needing to see the number itself. Same with enchantments and hexes. But I don't know, I guess the average pver wouldn't have that degree of familiarity with the skills.
Anyway, I found out that I deleted the .dds files at some point, so if I want to do it I'll have to remake it from scratch. If I'm extremely bored someday, I'll think about it, but it's not like the mod's got a huge following anyway.

I purchased Guild Wars a few months after it was released, I am a very experienced player, however I have not played all professions, and I would like the enchantment/hex signs on the skills, especially since I haven't learnt all the Eye of the North skills. It's the same to me as removing the little bar which shows you how much a skill has left before it expires ("I assume most people would know when their skills run out") I know this was added to a game as an update many months ago, but it is a nice feature that I'm sure many people wouldn't want removed. I feel the same about the enchantments/hex sign.

About the numbering, my sister often plays Guild Wars and when I help her, I refer to the skills as "number 1" or "number 5" etc. The absents of numbering isn't a real problem though.

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4. The rounded corner thing is a different image from the fog overlay. You can make a clearskills mod with rounded corners and no fog if you like. (In fact I did. But you still wouldn't like it because I nixed the enchantment/hex/weapon indicators.)

I think the rounded corners are nice, and would like to see this in the clearskills mod along with the enchantment/hex signs.

FoxBat · Jun 24, 2008, 02:44 PM // 14:44

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chthon

4. The reasons Joe's are so blurry has nothing to do with the resizing. They look blurry because you didn't use a clearskills mod when you compared them, so the "skill fog" graphic is getting displayed over them.

They aren't quite as blurred as the posted picture, but yes, they do still look quite blurry with clearskills, at least on my GeForce 8800 GS. It's more noticable the smaller the picture is. (E.G. hero skillbar with a "small" interface.) More than just a centering problem.

Chthon · Jun 24, 2008, 03:48 PM // 15:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by FoxBat

They aren't quite as blurred as the posted picture, but yes, they do still look quite blurry with clearskills, at least on my GeForce 8800 GS. It's more noticable the smaller the picture is. (E.G. hero skillbar with a "small" interface.) More than just a centering problem.

That's the lack of sharpening. The icons you're used to were really heavily (over-)sharpened by a-net. The tricky thing with sharpening is that you want to do it at the final display resolution. Sharpening an image for 64x64 then blowing it up to, say, 100x100 looks awful.

Chthon · Jun 25, 2008, 02:22 AM // 02:22

[Edit:

The guide for how to process skill icons is posted here.

It should tell you everything you need to know to make really good looking skill icons for the mod.]

JoeKnowMo · Jun 27, 2008, 12:39 AM // 00:39

Sorry for the delay.

As promised, here are the .rar files of the renamed skill icons (so they go along with the .log file).

Derv
Ele
Mes
Monk
Nec
Para
Ranger
Rit
Sin
War

The .log file is here.

There may be duplicate entries for the Rit icons in the .log file. It shouldn't affect anything, but I'll try and clean it up at a later date.

Don't forget to change the path in the .log file to point to wherever you put the icons for each profession.

Thanks for the guide, Chthon. I can't wait to see what people do.

Chthon · Jun 27, 2008, 07:07 AM // 07:07

I've started in on the necro icons. I've done the first page, plus a handful of my favorite necro skills/icons, at 128x128 (112x112 + border).

Here is a file with: Barbs, BIP, BotM, BR, Bone Fiend, Contagion, Deathly Swarm, Enfeebling Blood, Envenom Enchatments, Flesh Golem, Malign Intervention, MoP, Masochism, OoU, Plague Sig, Shambling Horror, SS, Vamp Horror, & Well of Blood (2 Versions), plus a log file to go with them. I also included the originals cut directly from the skillsheets if anyone wants to take them to make a 256x256 or 64x64 version.

I'll update the file to include more icons as I finish them.

A few notes:
* I used an edge mask throughout because I'm a nitpicky perfectionist.
* The skill cards for MoP and BIP were clearly blow ups of the in-game icons, so I actually ended up trying to soften and depixelize them as much as sharpen them.
* Well of Blood has 2 versions, the in-game one with the blue "blood" in the well, and one that's just a flip of well of suffering.
* I did some minor pixel editing to fix an obvious error in BotM's icon.

Sample Screenshots:
(My icons are on top, default in-game icons on the bottom.)

A lot of them look noticeably better, but I think the improvment in Shambling Horror just takes the cake.

----------

@ Joe: Can I make a terrible, horrible pain-in-the-ass request? Could you maybe take a look at the format for my log file and see if you can format the big log file in the same way (replacement files are by skill name, order is alphabetical by skill name). That makes it much easier for someone else to pick it up and use it.

Absnt · Jun 27, 2008, 07:18 AM // 07:18

Please please PLEASE do a 64x64 version ='{

Or would it look to bad if I used your 128s on my 64 sized bar?

Edit: I actually think mine are 50x50 hah... >.> I use the small interface

Edit2: Or better yet.. isn't there a way to make a sort of "script" for GIMP that runs though your resize/sharpen routine? Then possibly turned into a batch sort of thing?

DarkNecrid · Jun 27, 2008, 07:33 AM // 07:33

Cthon, that looks steller

Absnt · Jun 27, 2008, 09:29 AM // 09:29

Well i made a little AutoIt script to do it, I don't know if I have the best settings for the filters since you didn't specify but here is what its spitting out

Here is a comparison to yours

And with the border

Chthon · Jun 27, 2008, 04:17 PM // 16:17

@ Everyone: Alright, I can probably finish necromancer in a couple of weeks, but we're going to need other people to pick up some classes and make this a team effort!!!

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Quote:

Originally Posted by Absnt

Please please PLEASE do a 64x64 version ='{

Or would it look to bad if I used your 128s on my 64 sized bar?

Edit: I actually think mine are 50x50 hah... >.> I use the small interface

Edit2: Or better yet.. isn't there a way to make a sort of "script" for GIMP that runs though your resize/sharpen routine? Then possibly turned into a batch sort of thing?

1. By the time you scale down to 64x64 you've lost 100% of the enhanced resolution you gained by using the skill card pictures. The only thing you can do is compete with a-net's art team to do a better job of sharpening without destroying detail. That's a competition you can win (they did a very bad job on some icons), but the improvement over the in-game icons is going to be very, very small.

2. 128x128 icons on a 64x64 display are going to look like they need sharpened.

3. Did you know that you can adjust the size of you skillbar independent of the rest of the interface? If you want a big, pretty skillbar and small UI elements for everything else, you can do that.

4. Yes, you can write scripts for GIMP. It even has it's own built-in scripting language. Unfortunately, there's two serious limitations to what you can do with the scripts: (1) You've got to stop and look at it to make sure you gave it the right sharpening parameters before you proceed with adding the border and sending the black to alpha. The script has no way of knowing what looks good and what doesn't. (2) You can't possibly do an edge mask via script because the process of accentuating the important edges while minimizing the unimportant ones requires human input. (Though, at 64x64, there's almost no point in even trying an edge mask.)

Absnt · Jun 27, 2008, 04:29 PM // 16:29

Yeah, I just realized that on my own this morning when i did some testing ingame.. My icons look a little WORSE than anets at such a small size.

deadman_uk · Jun 27, 2008, 05:51 PM // 17:51

I would be willing to help out doing a profession at all 3 sizes, but I have no idea how I would convert black to alpha inside Photoshop.. this is the step I am stuck with. The only guess I could take is to use Replace Colour, select a black part of the image with the eyedropper tool, adjust the fuzziness, then hit delete...

Smurf Minions · Jun 28, 2008, 06:29 AM // 06:29

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chthon

I can see clearly now!
Wow that is just so much detail that was gone lost and you just get it back in

, i'd also to do something if you need me, but i have to go on holiday (with parents) for 3 weeks first, so i will see the progress when i have returned and if you still need some professions, i'll be there to do it

Jette Antral · Aug 07, 2008, 06:08 PM // 18:08

Uh, hi. I made a 112x112 (128x128) set of all Elementalist skills, excluding Intensity, the two Elemental Lords, and the skills that have no hi-res version available.

http://www.mediafire.com/download.php?jpkmg3v03yc

I haven't used Mediafire before, but everyone else seems to be, so tell me if that doesn't work.

I didn't do much, really. Just tell me if you think I should move on to the ritualist icons, the next set I intended to do. If it's terrible, I won't bother.

Kyosuki · Aug 16, 2008, 06:45 PM // 18:45

Ok,Confused

Which one should I download?(the clearest one)

DFzwo · Feb 21, 2011, 05:41 PM // 17:41

Since the last update, this isnt working anymore. It would be nice if someone could get after it.