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Old Oct 08, 2011, 08:12 AM // 08:12   #21
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The stones i agree are stupid - then again there are loads of stupid ppl ( no offence folks ) for example can players remember a few years ago when ab used to go by rank - if you wasnt r8 lux/kurz or above you had probs getting into a team.Now lets see it was same time as hfff was around and a person who never set foot into ab could faction farm to r12 and be welcome in any team even tho they never did ab.Same with ursan - ppl wanted r8 ursan or above and now its the stones even tho we all know they can be bought and mean jack.

One day ppl may realise that if you want gd players for teams THEY NEED TO BE SHOWN AND TRAINED !!!!
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Old Oct 08, 2011, 08:20 AM // 08:20   #22
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Most people that show an elitist attitude are people i find i would rather not play with anyway. If you are so afraid of failure that you require a silly token to prove worth, your doing something wrong to begin with. I've proudly used my stones for what they are intended for, and by the way SC freaks thats not to show how "good" you are. every group I've been with in UW either succeeds or fails, but has fun... god knows what the people who demand speed would have done back in the day, when a speed clear consisted of waiting for favor, praying to make a balanced group and hoping to clear the UW in a few hours... their tiny heads would have exploded
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Old Oct 08, 2011, 09:04 AM // 09:04   #23
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im a no stoner player... and i find it STUPID to show those stones for something u need to know how to do.... there are tons of ppl buying them and joining.... so stones here are.... useless? imo anyways....
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Old Oct 08, 2011, 11:12 AM // 11:12   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shanaeri Rynale View Post
How about removing the guaranteed Ghastly stone drop from the UW chest and making it a random drop.

That way we'd get rid of this silly and meaningless need to show stones to get into UW teams, without removing the items altogether.
I won't repeat what everyone else has said above about how stupid the "show stones" situation is, so I'll add something else....at the moment we don't have any summoning stones that can be random drops, so maybe we should be asking for all stones to be random drops instead of end-chest rewards (with a reduced chance of getting them from Nick's gifts, as there are too many stones already)? Juggernaut stones can drop in Urgoz, Oni stones can drop in The Deep, Merchant and Mysterious stones can drop anywhere in hard mode? Summoning stone crafters can stay as they are, for players that don't want to rely on random drops.
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Old Oct 08, 2011, 11:32 AM // 11:32   #25
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Not against the stones dropping randomly they are useless for judging ability anyway.
Many players want some way of telling the experience of players though really the only sure method has been in game since the beginning "Guilds"

A pug is a pug and your taking a chance when you pick random people, trying to decide on a persons ability based on how they look or what they own isn't really any good.
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Old Oct 08, 2011, 09:59 PM // 21:59   #26
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How can Stones reflect the players Skill at Underworld Speedclear? They don't. Think about having a T4 Who can do his Role in a Good time, Cover others if needed and gets his Job done but the Guy doesn't have stones. Next we have a guy who probably earned a few stones and brought the rest or got lent some by a friend. However this guy screws it up.

Now tell me where Does the "Show stones" have any proof of the players skill? It doesn't. I can Understand "Show Stones" after Dhuum was put in the Underworld but not months later. Pre-Dhuum we didn't have stones, How could we tell how skilled a player was? We didn't. We hoped that they can do their role and complete Underworld as a Team.

All honesty /Signed
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Old Oct 08, 2011, 11:53 PM // 23:53   #27
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Originally Posted by Shenro View Post
How can Stones reflect the players Skill at Underworld Speedclear?
When you're in a pug with people you dont know at all, showing stones is the most effective way at getting a general idea of someone's ability.
If you could propose another, alternative method that wont change anything. If these stones do become a random drop, it will effectively turn 100+ groups in to 500+ groups.
Ghastly stones were meant to have a value, as they are arguably the best summon you can get.
If you're sad that you cant join pugs, don't try break a system that has been put in place for a reason just so you can fail underworld.
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Old Oct 09, 2011, 12:11 AM // 00:11   #28
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Using no. of ghastly stones being a sign of someone's ability is as retarded as using zaishen rank as a sign of someone's pvp ability. That said, fixing (REMOVING) permanent spell immunity would solve your problem along with a ridiculous number of other ones in this game.
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Old Oct 09, 2011, 10:55 AM // 10:55   #29
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When you're in a pug with people you dont know at all, showing stones is the most effective way at getting a general idea of someone's ability.
WTB Ghastly Stones 3.5K<- Yes of course this Shows somebody ability in Underworld doesn't it?
In all honesty You cannot say "Ghastly stones Determine a players level of Skill in Underworld Speed clear as [Whatever] Role they Play". You can Buy those From ToA, Kamadan, This Guru itself. People Keep them after beating Underworld so they can get into Higher groups expecting "No Fails" But even still you'll find a 150+stone groups in ToA fail at the Simplest things.

Quote:
If you're sad that you cant join pugs, don't try break a system that has been put in place for a reason just so you can fail underworld.
No im Not sad- If i wanted to do a Underworld Speedclear i can use my Friend list. My Pve Days are done, Maybe every now and again i might do title wise stuff but it's PvP now.

Not only that your stating the fact Ghastly stones prove you have skill but Look at your guild name and Tag. It explains alot why your trying to make it seem like ghastly stones are a way of proof.
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Old Oct 09, 2011, 10:59 AM // 10:59   #30
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Pugging for Uwsc isn't the best way to do it, but stones provide at least a bit of control about it.

And i'm saying this as 20 stones player (don't like uwsc.)

Is a sistem that sucks for beginners, but what don't?
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Old Oct 09, 2011, 11:40 AM // 11:40   #31
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Originally Posted by AndrewSX View Post
but what don't?
Not pugging? Joining a guild eliminates the problem nicely
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Old Oct 09, 2011, 07:05 PM // 19:05   #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shenro View Post
WTB Ghastly Stones 3.5K<- Yes of course this Shows somebody ability in Underworld doesn't it?
In all honesty You cannot say "Ghastly stones Determine a players level of Skill in Underworld Speed clear as [Whatever] Role they Play". You can Buy those From ToA, Kamadan, This Guru itself. People Keep them after beating Underworld so they can get into Higher groups expecting "No Fails" But even still you'll find a 150+stone groups in ToA fail at the Simplest things.



No im Not sad- If i wanted to do a Underworld Speedclear i can use my Friend list. My Pve Days are done, Maybe every now and again i might do title wise stuff but it's PvP now.

Not only that your stating the fact Ghastly stones prove you have skill but Look at your guild name and Tag. It explains alot why your trying to make it seem like ghastly stones are a way of proof.
The point is, I'd rather have someone with 100 stones, regardless of where It was acquired vs someone who has no stones.
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Old Oct 09, 2011, 08:49 PM // 20:49   #33
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Originally Posted by PurpleFission View Post
The point is, I'd rather have someone with 100 stones, regardless of where It was acquired vs someone who has no stones.
Yet you say that But when he fails you'll probably make the Usual Comment like
"I guess you Brought your 100 stones"
"100 Stones and can't even do {Whatever} Role. Failure"
"Noob"

That a typical comment if a guy with 100 stones fails-Either way stones prove nothing apart from they're obtained from Underworld, There best Summon stones in game.
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Old Oct 10, 2011, 04:20 AM // 04:20   #34
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Shenro does have a point, regardless of where the stoens came form they could have been bought just to get in a group, which does not guarantee an experienced player, however if summoning stones from the UW CHEST were customized specifically for that player on that account & able to drop but not pickup then there would be alot more control in the matter, however people will make profit just to get stones and try to learn builds...still cant stop them.
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Old Oct 10, 2011, 09:24 AM // 09:24   #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shenro View Post
How can Stones reflect the players Skill at Underworld Speedclear? They don't. Think about having a T4 Who can do his Role in a Good time, Cover others if needed and gets his Job done but the Guy doesn't have stones. Next we have a guy who probably earned a few stones and brought the rest or got lent some by a friend. However this guy screws it up.

Now tell me where Does the "Show stones" have any proof of the players skill? It doesn't. I can Understand "Show Stones" after Dhuum was put in the Underworld but not months later. Pre-Dhuum we didn't have stones, How could we tell how skilled a player was? We didn't. We hoped that they can do their role and complete Underworld as a Team.

All honesty /Signed
even if they bought them they must have got the money from somewhere, so they probably at least have some exp in a SC, which is better than none at all. if you pug FoW, youll see why having some kind of quality control is nice. yeah, it make sit harder for new players to get into it, but there are plenty of guilds that you can join and learn, and they'll teach you better than any video can.
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Old Oct 10, 2011, 12:10 PM // 12:10   #36
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Everybody knows that stones do not measure player skill. But SC groups do also know that if nobody has to show stones, the stones would be basically worthless.

"lfm w/ 100+ stones" nets additional 7k/run.
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Old Oct 10, 2011, 01:15 PM // 13:15   #37
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100+ stone groups fail, so people started asking for a full stack... then they failed. Its almost as bad as asking for 30/50+ HoM. Just put in a vendor that makes them for 1k like a ton of other stones, but don't make it ask for ridiculous mats.
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Old Oct 10, 2011, 04:29 PM // 16:29   #38
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Make ghastly stones like zaishen coins used to be: non-tradeable. It wouldn't solve the problem of someone who has 100+ from doing a terra from using them to first-time emo or whatever, but it'd be better than nothing.
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Old Oct 10, 2011, 05:17 PM // 17:17   #39
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Originally Posted by Swingline View Post
100+ stone groups fail, so people started asking for a full stack... then they failed. Its almost as bad as asking for 30/50+ HoM. Just put in a vendor that makes them for 1k like a ton of other stones, but don't make it ask for ridiculous mats.
^This i Approve-Maybe even a set amount of Skill points? along with 1k/2k+Few mats with Skill points also.
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Old Oct 10, 2011, 05:37 PM // 17:37   #40
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ffs this discussion is so old and so stupid.
Yes the system of showing stones is far from perfect and flawed in ALOT of ways.
But srsly you can keep repeating the same old boring line 'showing stones does not prove experience' as much as you want, it wont change the fact that the system statistically works.

There are obviously 2 kinds of people who have stones:
-The ones actually experienced who have a bigger chance to succeed than people from practise runs.
-The ones who bought a part/all of their stones and which probably proves they are motivated and took the time to learn what they want to do. So also better than the random guy from a practise run.

If you disagree and say a 250+ statistically has the same succes rate and speed as a 50+ run you're either ignorant when it comes to pugging uw or a liar. In both cases you shouldnt've posted in this thread.


If you want to pug underworld gather your stones the hard way like I did or take the effort/time to buy them, both of these will get you further than complaining on guru.


If it wasnt clear already: /notsigned
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