Curse

burai · Sep 29, 2005, 10:24 AM // 10:24

I had a problem way back, where the graphics would occasionally break up into large polygonal shapes. Rebooting would cure it, but it would always come back maybe once or twice a day. Eventually it started to happen every time within a few minutes of firing up GW.

AthlonXP 2400+ 2Ghz
Gigabyte MB - VIA KT266A chipset
Enermax PSU - 430W ATX 2.03 + 12v 1.1
1GB RAM
Coolermaster case
NVIDIA 5900XT - 128MB

After dozens of emails to GW support, they eventually decided that my hardware wasn't up to driving the 5900 - even though it had worked for 2+ months. I think they just used the 'custom build' get-out clause.

I then swapped out the card for an old NVIDIA Ti200, which again has been working for quite some time (well over 1 month). Now I have started to get the same graphics problem, only now and again so far. I am starting to think this is going to get worse, so I am looking for advice before it becomes unplayable.

A lot of posts have referred to heat as a common problem, which is interesting as I realised the other day that the 5900 started getting worse after cleaning dust from the front air intake. Now my current problem has got slightly worse after I again cleaned the dust off the front. Also, yesterday was the first time since installing the Ti200 that this problem happened twice in one day, and curiously enough yesterday was also the first time that the weather went quite cold (good old UK). I haven't got round to putting the heating on in the house, so was the room was also cold.

Is it possible to have these problems as a result too much cooling? I never imagined this could be the case until yesterday. Just a whacky thought.

Vyvyan Damone · Sep 29, 2005, 10:54 AM // 10:54

nope. definitely not too much cooling issue.
You can never get enough cooling (if you ask me),
but have you considered and checked :

-Computer base_memory (check it with memtest)

-Drivers on your GFX_card, have you tested older ones?

When you have tested your puta with 2 gfx_cards allready and those problems still occurs, you gotta find the victim inside your computer. I think its elsewhere than in your GFX_cards... Just try to remember what was changed / what was installed before these probles first occured.

(if you still think its heat problem, take away the cases cover and run your puta like that for few hours and investigate more.)

burai · Sep 29, 2005, 11:19 AM // 11:19

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vyvyan Damone

nope. definitely not too much cooling issue.
You can never get enough cooling (if you ask me),
but have you considered and checked :

-Computer base_memory (check it with memtest)

-Drivers on your GFX_card, have you tested older ones?

When you have tested your puta with 2 gfx_cards allready and those problems still occurs, you gotta find the victim inside your computer. I think its elsewhere than in your GFX_cards... Just try to remember what was changed / what was installed before these probles first occured.

(if you still think its heat problem, take away the cases cover and run your puta like that for few hours and investigate more.)

Thanks for that. Yeah, I thought I was pushing my luck on the 'too much cooling' front. Still, weird things happen in the wacky world of computing.

Throughout the GW support cycle I:

Removed all non-essential components
Ran memtest (and various other stress-testing stuff) for 2 days
Removed memory DIMMS in turn
Installed many many versions of the drivers (with a driverclean each time)
Removed the covers, and had fans directed at the Mboard
re-installed Windows XP Pro SP2 + patches several times
Got a bit stroppy with the wife

Basically all the usual suspects.

It's weird how it works for weeks, then goes wrong. Works again after swapping out the 5900 - and then starts going wrong again weeks later. I suppose it's possible that the system really isn't up to it, and is slowly 'burning' my card.

The only other things that would have changed since installing the Ti200 would be further XP patches, and McAfee updates - that's about it.

Maybe I'll consider getting a Dell XPS as an early xmas present for myself

Old Dood · Sep 29, 2005, 12:03 PM // 12:03

I would check your Ram chips. A Ram checker is fine, however, I would actually pull out a chip at a time and run your system at the point in a game or whatever that makes it mess up. Process of elimination for each and every ram chip.

I always check hardware over software first. Since you are having this problem with two different vid cards it seems like a ram problem. I have run those ram checker programs before and they have not found anything wrong. Then I pull out my chips and the "problem" goes away.

Also have you added more ram down the line? In other words have you mixed different brands/types of ram? This could also cause problems.

burai · Sep 29, 2005, 12:15 PM // 12:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by Old Warrior Dood

I would check your Ram chips. A Ram checker is fine, however, I would actually pull out a chip at a time and run your system at the point in a game or whatever that makes it mess up. Process of elimination for each and every ram chip.

I always check hardware over software first. Since you are having this problem with two different vid cards it seems like a ram problem. I have run those ram checker programs before and they have not found anything wrong. Then I pull out my chips and the "problem" goes away.

Also have you added more ram down the line? In other words have you mixed different brands/types of ram? This could also cause problems.

Thanks to you too OWD.

I have 2 identical 512MB Crucial DIMMs, and I tried removing them one at a time and testing with just one DIMM at a time - no change. To be honest I only tried this with the 5900 not with the Ti200, but as it's basically the same problem I'm assuming it's not a memory issue - though it could be the bus I suppose.

Vyvyan Damone · Sep 29, 2005, 05:59 PM // 17:59

try taking the gfx_card as far away from other cards/drives/power_supplies/yaddayadda, and see if those fans are really working.
you can buy some blow_air_cans from local chinese store, and hit those parts with it.
examine. is the. key. ,)

{integral} · Sep 29, 2005, 06:23 PM // 18:23

www.guildwars.com has acknowledged this problem (I think) and this is what it says you need to do:

Quote:

Originally Posted by guildwars.com

# Open Display Properties control panel
# Click Settings tab
# Click Advanced button
# Click GeForce "Version" tab
# Select Performance and Quality Settings in left window
# In the Global Driver Settings window select Image Settings
# Move the slider to the right to "High quality

burai · Sep 30, 2005, 07:23 AM // 07:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by lunchbreak

www.guildwars.com has acknowledged this problem (I think) and this is what it says you need to do:

I had this option on the 5900, and it did improve the situation, but not solve it. Then of course it got worse. This option doesn't exist for the ti200 - even with the same driver. Well actually it does exist, but the max is 'quality' - which it is set to.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vyvyan Damone

try taking the gfx_card as far away from other cards/drives/power_supplies/yaddayadda, and see if those fans are really working.

The card itself is of course unmoveable, as the AGP slot is in a fixed location, but I did remove all non-essential cards - whach basically turned out to be all of them - not the GFX itself of course

I've got a little obsessed with the old anti-cooling malarkey, and you know what? with the heating on in the room yesterday I had no problems. I still agree that cooling is good and heat is bad, and I'm sure it's just coincidence. As an IT guy of 24 years (UNIX not PCs) and have always always preached this to all my customers, but to use the phrase again - it's weird.

I'm going to try some 'controlled' experiments, just to satisfy myself - assuming the weather gets cold again of course

Thanks for all your replies so far, it just highlights just how great these forums are.

burai · Oct 02, 2005, 09:45 AM // 09:45

Well, I've done the 'controlled' experiment and, at the risk of completely blowing away all good practice regards cooling, I have reached the following conclusion.

Heat (in moderation of course) is good

Whenever the ambient temperature is cool the problem occurs, but whenever it is warm it does not. I can now reproduce this at will simply by turning off/on the heating.

I can see a new market for PC heating products

Anyone else get this problem? Try my theory out.

thejynxed · Oct 06, 2005, 07:27 AM // 07:27

That could be because when it is too cold in the case, that your parts might be shrinking and losing contact at the seating points, but when it heats up just a bit, the parts resume their normal size and the contact points are fine. Kind of like a wooden door - in the summer it fits snugly, in the winter you sometimes have to throw a towel over the bottom to cover the suddenly visible crack. Or it could just possibly be that your cards vibrate out of their seating period.

burai · Oct 06, 2005, 07:32 AM // 07:32

Quote:

Originally Posted by thejynxed

That could be because when it is too cold in the case, that your parts might be shrinking and losing contact at the seating points, but when it heats up just a bit, the parts resume their normal size and the contact points are fine. Kind of like a wooden door - in the summer it fits snugly, in the winter you sometimes have to throw a towel over the bottom to cover the suddenly visible crack. Or it could just possibly be that your cards vibrate out of their seating period.

That's a good point. I guess the only solution (till I buy a new machine that is) is to keep the room 'comfortable'.