Curse

Horseman Of War · Aug 01, 2006, 11:26 PM // 23:26

Um reading some of the Spiteful posts that do nothing to help the OP-

Wow, you think guild wars needs a p5??? Im running the following muscle-car rig:

p4 2.0ghz
1gb ram
regular speed harddrive
4x AGP (could be 16x but my mobo...) Sapphire ATI x1600pro 512mb (128 bit bus)

and like i said... I get visuals beyond compare with a solid 40-60+ fps (dips to about 20 in ABs)

guild wars does not use much system resource... its designed to be playable on a p4 1.0 ghz, low ram, and lower-end video cards (my old 64mb worked at 5fps) and connections (modem... although downloading must take forever... :/)

Mystra of Exile · Aug 02, 2006, 02:11 AM // 02:11

Quote:

Originally Posted by DutchGun

Would you mind trying the -mute instead of -nosound (saw Gaile mention this in a different thread) and reporting the results? Naturally, turning off sound will improve frame rate. It's sort of like saying that turning off rendering will improve the frame rate. The question is what is slowing down so much and why?

Apparently, instead of disabling the entire sound system, -mute processes the sounds as normal on the game client (I presume this means it loads and decompresses any sound effects/music), but does not send the output to DirectSound. I'm wondering if this option was put in to help them debug this problem. (?)

Any info you can report here may get viewed by the devs, and help them to fix whatever is going on with the low frame rate caused by the sound (it seems to just affect certain computers). I feel bad for these folks, because the sound is way better for me since the upgrades, but it would be really annoying to have to turn the sound off to get a decent frame rate.

Just for you, I did indeed try -mute.

Same results as with -nosound.

Also, to note, the tech help dude had me try tuning down or turning off hardware acceleration on my speakers. Very little difference - except for the horrible drumming beat I heard during some special effect sounds.

So, what does this all mean?

d3fcon · Aug 02, 2006, 03:04 AM // 03:04

Same problem is happening to me now, seems after the Night Fall preview everything has gone down hill. It never use to lag when i was fighting, now during combat it'll skip. My FPS has also dropped from before, I've tried everything (updating drivers, muting.. etc.) no luck. CPU is still near 100% usage.

shadowfell · Aug 02, 2006, 04:13 AM // 04:13

Quote:

Originally Posted by Horseman Of War

guild wars does not use much system resource... its designed to be playable on a p4 1.0 ghz, low ram, and lower-end video cards (my old 64mb worked at 5fps) and connections (modem... although downloading must take forever... :/)

Standing in one place .. hardly constitutes 'playing'

I can load GW on my 1.2ghz, 388mb ram laptop with 48mb video memory and it is just... the frame rate is non existant.

kvndoom · Aug 02, 2006, 09:01 AM // 09:01

There should be a sticky in this forum called "Guild Wars and CPU usage." It would have 2 lines:

1) If you have a single-core, single-threaded CPU, gw.exe will use 100% of your CPU time.

2) If you have a Hyperthreaded (HT) or dual/multi-core CPU, gw.exe will not use 100% of your CPU time.

Sadly, people still wouldn't listen.

But anyway, Mystra has at least narrowed his problem down to the sound engine eating up his framerate. In a laptop, you probably don't have a very high-end sound chip, so you wouldn't want the in-game hardware acceleration box checked anyway (I have an Audigy2 ZS on my desktop, fed with an A64 3400 with 2 gigs of RAM and a 7900GT, and I still can't use hardware acceleration without weird problems- but it's at least strong enough to use max software without taking a reasonable hit). And definitely not EAX (which you can't check without HW acceleration, IIRC). So from there, try lowering the Quality slider. It's still not documented, but you must exit Guild Wars completely and restart after each change made to sound quality settings, other wise the changes don't take effect. So try each setting on the slider, from min to max, and see if there's a happy medium. Laptop speakers sound like crap anyway, so max quality isn't necessary anyway. Lemme know if that helps any.

MaglorD · Aug 02, 2006, 09:12 AM // 09:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by kvndoom

I have an Audigy2 ZS on my desktop, fed with an A64 3400 with 2 gigs of RAM and a 7900GT, and I still can't use hardware acceleration without weird problems- but it's at least strong enough to use max software without taking a reasonable hit). And definitely not EAX (which you can't check without HW acceleration, IIRC).

What weird problems are you encountering with hardware acceleration? I have the same sound card as you and haven't noticed anything unusual since the NF update. I have sound quality at maximum and 3D sound/EAX checked.

]SK[ · Aug 02, 2006, 09:38 AM // 09:38

I have an Inspirion 9300. It can run GW. I have to ideally run it on lowest settings possible for it to run half decent FPS. Even then loading times are simly awful. 99% of laptops arn't designed for gaming.

Buy yourself a PC. Problem solved. Sorry but its true.

majoho · Aug 02, 2006, 05:37 PM // 17:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by gabrial heart

Fine here's the technical specs then. Perhaps do some research before you comment.

Processor: Intel® Pentium® D Processor 950 (Pent series 5 as shown in sys properties for the laimen)
Mobo: ECS 945P-A
GPU: 2- x1800 crossfire ati
RAM: 1GB Dual-channel DDR2 533
Storage: 2-150 GB (RAID0) SATA2

What's your point?

There is no Pentium 5, you might call it that though.

kvndoom · Aug 02, 2006, 06:02 PM // 18:02

Quote:

Originally Posted by MaglorD

What weird problems are you encountering with hardware acceleration? I have the same sound card as you and haven't noticed anything unusual since the NF update. I have sound quality at maximum and 3D sound/EAX checked.

I don't use Creative's drivers because of a bug with 4-channel surround. If I ever buy an extra amp to run a center speaker, I'll use their drivers. So because of that I can't use HW acceleration in GW, but software works fine, and most other games work fine too. It's not that big of a deal for me.

d3fcon · Aug 02, 2006, 06:25 PM // 18:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by kvndoom

But anyway, Mystra has at least narrowed his problem down to the sound engine eating up his framerate. In a laptop, you probably don't have a very high-end sound chip, so you wouldn't want the in-game hardware acceleration box checked anyway (I have an Audigy2 ZS on my desktop, fed with an A64 3400 with 2 gigs of RAM and a 7900GT, and I still can't use hardware acceleration without weird problems- but it's at least strong enough to use max software without taking a reasonable hit). And definitely not EAX (which you can't check without HW acceleration, IIRC). So from there, try lowering the Quality slider. It's still not documented, but you must exit Guild Wars completely and restart after each change made to sound quality settings, other wise the changes don't take effect. So try each setting on the slider, from min to max, and see if there's a happy medium. Laptop speakers sound like crap anyway, so max quality isn't necessary anyway. Lemme know if that helps any.

I've comfirmed that it is the sound quality problem, just tested it (slid sound quality to the very lowest), and it no longer skips(graphically).

gabrial heart · Aug 02, 2006, 07:40 PM // 19:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by majoho

What's your point?

There is no Pentium 5, you might call it that though.

My point is, i didn't call it that, it's how it reads in system properties! So if someone is referencing what they have and it says pentium 5 in their system properties, then they can narrow it down. Basically the system is calling the newer Pentium D's and core duos pentium 5's.

Stockholm · Aug 02, 2006, 07:54 PM // 19:54

I have the same problem when playing on wireless network, never when hocked up through cable.

gabrial heart · Aug 02, 2006, 08:05 PM // 20:05

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kaguya

Where did I say that Hyperthreading is dual core or multiprocessor? I said HT causes one physical processor to be seen as two to the operating system, nothing about HT being actual two processors or cores, just that it looks like two processors to the system.

I don't want people to get the wrong idea here, thats why i responded and am doing so again.

A system using HT, isn't a dual, nor does HT code need to be re/written to take advatage like that of dual cores or multiprocessors. A hyper-threading machine will take full advantage of HT regardless of whether the software is written to utilize it or not. You mentioned that GW doesn't take advatage of HT as it is not written to, yet with HT it doesn't need to be! As i see again in a later post about HT again being mis-informative.

corry29 · Aug 02, 2006, 08:14 PM // 20:14

im sorry, but whe ur GW.exe w/e goes to 100% does this happen??

if it is..how do i fix it?

gabrial heart · Aug 02, 2006, 08:45 PM // 20:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by kvndoom

There should be a sticky in this forum called "Guild Wars and CPU usage." It would have 2 lines:

1) If you have a single-core, single-threaded CPU, gw.exe will use 100% of your CPU time.

2) If you have a Hyperthreaded (HT) or dual/multi-core CPU, gw.exe will not use 100% of your CPU time.

Sadly, people still wouldn't listen.

It's not that people won't listen, it's that it's not accurate information. Heres an example again..

I have 4 machines that i did some checking with. All seemed to have a good network socket and all were read during a stand still in the game, around the trader in our guild hall, facing the same general direction, with graphics set at maximum, x2 or x4.

1- amd +1200, 1GB RAM, Nv fx 5200 GPU= 55-60% Processor usage FPS 9-15

The troubled laptop:
2- Intel pent4 HT @ 2.2Ghz 1.5 GB RAM, ATI Mobility x300= 80-95% Usage FPS 10-15

3- Intel pent4 HT @ 3.2 Ghz, 1GB RAM, Nvidia go fx 5200 = 25-40% Usage FPS 10-15
4- Intel D @ 2.66Ghz, 1GB RAM, 2- ATI x1800 Crossfires = 45-50% Usage FPS 85-90

I tried dropping the sound on machine #2 with both -mute -nosound, Usage dropped dramatically and free'd up the system a ton, (60-70% FPS 25). This is a fairly new issue (since factions release for us) and i would also like to know if anyone else has figured out a work around, since a few have expressed this issue. It looks as though it's an issue with certain sound cards maybe? I wish i had those specs with me, but i forgot to write them down

It also seems that ATI cards simply have more demand on the processor then the others...

Edit: Forgot to put the FPS!

gabrial heart · Aug 02, 2006, 08:58 PM // 20:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by corry29

im sorry, but whe ur GW.exe w/e goes to 100% does this happen??

if it is..how do i fix it?

ack! I've only had this happen on my lappy and it never uses 100%, oddily enough I've never seen my g/f's lappy kick her out like that (i'll have to ask her) and it runs at near 90% most of the time... You have an nvidia card or ati?

corry29 · Aug 02, 2006, 09:13 PM // 21:13

Quote:

Originally Posted by gabrial heart

ack! I've only had this happen on my lappy and it never uses 100%, oddily enough I've never seen my g/f's lappy kick her out like that (i'll have to ask her) and it runs at near 90% most of the time... You have an nvidia card or ati?

i have a nvidia card..

geforce fx5900

gabrial heart · Aug 02, 2006, 09:21 PM // 21:21

Quote:

Originally Posted by corry29

i have a nvidia card..

geforce fx5900

HAHA, so between the 2 of us, the nvidia cards have errored out and the ati cards haven't, yet with my systems the ati seems to demand more processor time, wierd...

DutchGun · Aug 02, 2006, 11:01 PM // 23:01

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mystra of Exile

Just for you, I did indeed try -mute.

Same results as with -nosound.

Also, to note, the tech help dude had me try tuning down or turning off hardware acceleration on my speakers. Very little difference - except for the horrible drumming beat I heard during some special effect sounds.

So, what does this all mean?

Thanks for indulging my curiosity.

According to the info Gaile posted, -mute does all normal audio processing and calculations in GW except for actually playing the final mix through DirectSound. So, one could infer that, for whatever reason, DirectSound's software mixer seems to be taking up an extraordinary amount of CPU time on your system. I'm not quite sure how to explain that, though, especially when it used to be ok under the pre-DX9 update.

Here's another idea - try reducing the Windows sample rate conversion quality down to it's lowest setting. It's in the same place you set the Windows audio acceleration level (via the control panel).

I'll keep thinking and post if any other ideas come to me, but it sounds like you've exhausted a lot of the more obvious possibilities.

kvndoom · Aug 03, 2006, 12:44 AM // 00:44

Quote:

Originally Posted by gabrial heart

It's not that people won't listen, it's that it's not accurate information. Heres an example again..

I have 4 machines that i did some checking with. All seemed to have a good network socket and all were read during a stand still in the game, around the trader in our guild hall, facing the same general direction, with graphics set at maximum, x2 or x4.

1- amd +1200, 1GB RAM, Nv fx 5200 GPU= 55-60% Processor usage FPS 9-15

The troubled laptop:
2- Intel pent4 HT @ 2.2Ghz 1.5 GB RAM, ATI Mobility x300= 80-95% Usage FPS 10-15

3- Intel pent4 HT @ 3.2 Ghz, 1GB RAM, Nvidia go fx 5200 = 25-40% Usage FPS 10-15
4- Intel D @ 2.66Ghz, 1GB RAM, 2- ATI x1800 Crossfires = 45-50% Usage FPS 85-90

I tried dropping the sound on machine #2 with both -mute -nosound, Usage dropped dramatically and free'd up the system a ton, (60-70% FPS 25). This is a fairly new issue (since factions release for us) and i would also like to know if anyone else has figured out a work around, since a few have expressed this issue. It looks as though it's an issue with certain sound cards maybe? I wish i had those specs with me, but i forgot to write them down

It also seems that ATI cards simply have more demand on the processor then the others...

Edit: Forgot to put the FPS!

Screenshots please.

I want to see your Processes tab:

And your Performance Tab:

To verify my misinformation.