Curse

Dex · Mar 14, 2007, 09:24 PM // 21:24

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dahl

My current system believe it or not is really not all that old. It's just that my mom and brother were stupid enough to buy junk components like the video card and whatnot. To be honest I'm not quite sure what this system's specs are besides 2.2 ghz and 512 mb ram. I know it's a 120 gb HD.

When we bought this, I didn't know first thing about computer hardware, and to be honest I didn't know much more than that when I started this thread. I've done a lot of research though, I've had friends help, and I think I've come a long way in the past couple of days.

I'm not too sure what to do though because 3 more months of this garbage performance and I'll be out a head of hair. lol.

Definitely check your system specs before you start buying hardware. There's still a pretty good chance that your current motherboard doesn't support DDR2...and it might have PCI-Express, but it also might have AGP. Also, if you don't trust your PSU don't play games with it. A bad PSU can fry hardware depending on what's wrong with it.

Dahl · Mar 14, 2007, 09:27 PM // 21:27

Actually believe it or not it has both pci and agp. Unusual system. Heh ,you should see my monitor too. Really weird, it doesn't just sit on the desk :P

Dex · Mar 14, 2007, 09:35 PM // 21:35

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dahl

Actually believe it or not it has both pci and agp. Unusual system. Heh ,you should see my monitor too. Really weird, it doesn't just sit on the desk :P

PCI-Express, not PCI. There is a gigantic difference. PCI is VERY slow and is not well suited as a video interface. You don't want a PCI video card. PCI-Express 16x is faster than AGP...PCI is much slower than AGP.

Pretty much all AGP boards have PCI slots, but there were only a few boards ever made that have AGP and PCI-Express 16x slots.

moriz · Mar 14, 2007, 09:49 PM // 21:49

actually, PCI-e is 2x faster than AGP 8x, which is the latest incarnation of AGP. the original AGP 1x is at least 15 years old.

here's some comparisons:

PCI-e is x160 faster than PCI
AGP is x80 faster than PCI

Dex · Mar 14, 2007, 10:17 PM // 22:17

Quote:

Originally Posted by moriz

actually, PCI-e is 2x faster than AGP 8x, which is the latest incarnation of AGP. the original AGP 1x is at least 15 years old.

here's some comparisons:

PCI-e is x160 faster than PCI
AGP is x80 faster than PCI

The point being:

PCI-Express 16x > AGP (ALL AGP) > PCI
(Don't get me started on VESA Local Bus

)

If you're buying a new video card you want PCI-Express 16x.

tijo · Mar 15, 2007, 01:36 PM // 13:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dex

The point being:

PCI-Express 16x > AGP (ALL AGP) > PCI
(Don't get me started on VESA Local Bus

)

If you're buying a new video card you want PCI-Express 16x.

Yeah pretty much, AGP cards are bound to be extinct someday so going with PCI-E 16x is a better choice if you plan on future ugrades.

Dahl · Mar 15, 2007, 08:15 PM // 20:15

I never said anything about buying a PCI video card, ever.

I said I have both agp and pci slots, that might mean pci-e, I don't really know. I just know I have 2 different slot types, and there are only 2 (real) types of slots. Therefore one type must be from the agp family and one type must be from the pci family. It might be pci, and it might be pci-e. I know the difference between the two, but I don't know which one I actually HAVE right now.

Like I said before, I don't know ANYTHING in detail about this system at all. It was bought when I had no computer knowledge at all.

Please do me a favor and read my posts a little better, I never said I was buying a regular PCI card, ever, not even remotely hinted at it.

Dex · Mar 15, 2007, 08:40 PM // 20:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dahl

I never said anything about buying a PCI video card, ever.

I said I have both agp and pci slots, that might mean pci-e, I don't really know. I just know I have 2 different slot types, and there are only 2 (real) types of slots. Therefore one type must be from the agp family and one type must be from the pci family. It might be pci, and it might be pci-e. I know the difference between the two, but I don't know which one I actually HAVE right now.

Like I said before, I don't know ANYTHING in detail about this system at all. It was bought when I had no computer knowledge at all.

Please do me a favor and read my posts a little better, I never said I was buying a regular PCI card, ever, not even remotely hinted at it.

I wasn't saying that you were going to buy a PCI video card. I just wanted to make sure you knew the difference, because you said you had "both", when in fact there are 3 different types of slots. PCI-Express and PCI are not even remotely alike...not in the same family...not in any way similar or compatible. In fact, even though the base technologies are similar (on a level which is totally unimportant to the end user), I see it as a huge mistake for the standards committees to have used the acronym "PCI" in the naming for PCI-Express. It's confusing to folks that aren't familiar with system building. I mean, PCI-Express isn't any more similar to PCI than AGP is similar to PCI. All three are totally separate interface types.

The point that I was trying to make is that it's very unlikely that you have both an AGP slot and a PCI-Express 16x slot. Not impossible, but not likely. It is far more likely that you have an AGP slot and one or more plain old PCI slots. There were only a handful of chipsets ever created for desktops that support AGP and PCI-Express simultaneously (one by SiS, one by VIA, and some custom solutions hacked onto Intel chipsets), and so few boards were made based on them that you'd be hard-pressed to even find one nowadays. Having AGP and PCI is common (nearly mandatory). Having AGP and PCI-Express is not.

So, please don't be offended. I did read your post. I just wanted to make the point that if you have an AGP slot it's unlikely that your plan to upgrade the video card in your current system would pan out.

Dahl · Mar 15, 2007, 09:13 PM // 21:13

If I knew it couldn't be a PCI-e slot though, do you think I'd waste the money on a card? lol. I don't have a lot of hardware knowledge but I have common sense. I'm not like most ignorant users that go out and buy whatever looks good without planning things out.

Look at this thread for example. If I was anyone else, I'd have bought that piece of garbage from Tiger, but I did research instead.

It's kind of funny going to tiger now. I saw a similar PC (with slightly less features than the one im building, and a garbage case) for about 2,400$ while mine, which is going to be considerably better, with a better case, and just about better everything, for about $1469. Most of your money isn't even going towards the components themselves when you buy from tiger or future shop or staples. Half of your money is paying for the component, and half your money is paying for the box and the pretty shiny pictures and the booklet and the little bells and whistles that come with it.

I know how amazing pci-e is, and yes I actually say pci-"E" when I tell people. But this time, I simply did not know what I had. I just knew I had two different coloured slots.

I'm not offended, I just don't wanna be spoken to like I'm some ignorant cash-happy sucker. I realize the difference between the two but the names are so similar. I know the performance of the two are lightyears apart but the names are similar, so therefore in my mind, they are from the same family, the same company, manufacturer. an ATI x1600 is still the same family as an ati x1950, because it's ati. Family is still family, regardless of it's <b>generation.</b>

Dahl · Mar 15, 2007, 09:23 PM // 21:23

**** gg guildwars guru. This time, make forums that work. ****

Dex · Mar 16, 2007, 05:11 AM // 05:11

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dahl

I'm not offended, I just don't wanna be spoken to like I'm some ignorant cash-happy sucker.

Ok, then. You said you were new to this, and a lot of perfectly smart people mix up PCI and PCI-Express. I was just trying to help...wasn't talking to you like an "ignorant sucker". I mean, it isn't like I get paid to hang around the forums and try to help people, ya know?

I wouldn't presume that you're going to do anything. You stated that you'd like to upgrade the video card in your current machine and carry it over into your new machine later. I told you why that wasn't likely to be a viable option. Why is it that you're taking that personally? I don't get what you're taking issue with. Sorry.

Dahl · Mar 16, 2007, 06:54 AM // 06:54

I'm not taking anything personally, I just have a thing with people talking down to me, and that's how it sounded.

I don't necessarily want to carry a video card from this pc to my new one I suppose. I just need a little something. Did you watch that video? It's not very fun to play the game on specs like that and I thought I would just make the next few months a little more enjoyable. Waiting a quarter of a year to upgrade doesn't sound like much fun to me..

dansamy · Mar 16, 2007, 10:53 AM // 10:53

It may not be much fun, but it's the best option outside of buying a basic off-the-shelf and adding video and RAM as needed.

Mushroom · Mar 16, 2007, 04:45 PM // 16:45

If you plan on doing this upgrade yourself "One Piece At A Time", you should make the case your first purchase. Normally, it is the only major item (other then optical drives) that you can move from one system to another.

And I warn and caution people all the time, do not go to cheap on the case, and look it over carefully. Make sure you get at least a 450 watt power supply as a minimum. And that it has proper cooling. That means either a 120mm fan or 2 80mm fans in both the front and the back. The fans in the front should be in a position so they can blow directly over the hard drives.

A surprisingly large number of cases skip this basic area. 5 years ago, 5400 rpm was the standard, and those normally did OK without extra cooling. However, the vast majority of hard drives start at 7200 rpm, and go to 10,000 rpm and higher. Without proper cooling, these drives can fail very quickly (like within 3-6 months). They literally "cook themselves to death".

Side mount and top mount fans are nice, but not as critical as those mounted in the front and rear. And always max the fans in a case. I call them "cheap insurance". spending an extra $10 for fans is much easier then spending $100 for a new hard drive.

If you are not planning on getting the video card for several months, leave that for last. Odds are there will be some changes between then and now, which may make changes in reccomended items.

You might want to simply start with a motherboard with ATI or NVidia graphics onboard. This can tide you over until you get the card you want. In fact, I reccomend ATI and NVidia chipsets, with Via comming in third. I never reccomend Intel chipsets, I have found far to many problems with them to ever reccomend.

Dex · Mar 16, 2007, 06:19 PM // 18:19

On the hard drive subject, I'd go with a 7200rpm drive. The 10,000rpm drives simply don't offer all that fantastic a performance increase over fast 7200rpm drives right now. I'd much rather have a more reliable drive than 1/2 a second shorter level load times. A lot of people will tell you that you have to get a Raptor, but I strongly disagree. A friend of mine has had 2 well-cooled Raptors die over the past year in the same system. Especially if games are your focus, a Raptor isn't worth 4-times the price of a 7200.10 (on 150/160 GB drives):

http://techreport.com/reviews/2006q2...0/index.x?pg=5

The impact on overall system performance is miniscule between a Raptor and a good 7200rpm drive like the Seagate 7200.10's or some of the WD Caviars. Save yourself a significant amount of money and just opt for a good 7200rpm drive with a 5-year warranty. The Seagate 7200.10's offer outstanding bang for the buck. Raptors are great if you simply must have the best of the best and money is no object...even then you're paying a lot for little performance.

myst1k · Mar 16, 2007, 06:58 PM // 18:58

Stuff i would change if i were you,
Hard Drive - Seagate 320GB sata2, then make 300local/20backup
RAM - Corsair XMS2 2GB DDRII 800 Mhz PC2-6400
MotherBoard - P5B DLX WIFI
CPU -C2D E6600+
Case - Antec Nine Hundred Gaming Tower 200M Fan(Seems a fine case)
Power Supply - OCZ GameXStream 600W ATX12V SLI ready
Video Card - XFX 7600 GT pci-e
Sound Card - intergrated, until you get more cash later on.
Cd-ROM - Cd-ROM/Dvd Player/Dvd burner all-in-one.

IMO this system has 3 things better than the one you are thinking about:
1st: better cpu, e6600 oced can smoke an FX-62
2nd: cheaper card so when the next gen cards come(soon) you wont loose money like buying a x1950, then you would upgrade and sell the 7600gt.
3rd: better PSU, lower HDD since 500gb is too much for a gamer, or atleast too much to start with.
4th: intergrated sounds, upgrade it if you get a 50$ somewhere or you see a card going cheap. since its not that important performance gain.

why i made a system like this= upgrade friendly+ you wont regret for buying more expensive stuff if newer things come out.

good luck and enjoy your new rig

daisybox · Mar 16, 2007, 07:20 PM // 19:20

Good computer

Dahl · Mar 16, 2007, 07:48 PM // 19:48

I'm not changing a single component on that pc until I see the price. You can't just tell me what to get without providing me the cost. If it costs over $1500, then I'm not interested. I don't want the best of the best. I want something that will last me a couple of years and it is evident that my system up there will do just that, and more.

It was a mistake making this thread, it's just annoying me now.

I don't have $48,974,858,678,965,854,355,543,265,362 to buy a new system. Knock it off.

All components will remain as is. I will not buy a card before my new system. When I buy my new system, I will buy the x1950 pro. I will not upgrade my card again until the x1950 pro is FRIED AND UNUSABLE. I don't care about dx10 even in the least bit. I am currently running guild wars on dx8. I can handle just switching to dx9 with my new system. I am only a 19 year old man and will not spend every penny I get on a new system. There will be no upgrades, for many years. I am buying 1 solid gaming system, and that is all.

The case, apparently is pretty much the only component that won't shoot down in price over time, so I may buy that now and put all my current garbage parts into it since it has much better cooling, and my current system often freezes and shuts down on its own, likely due to overheating. Especially since I only have 1 tiny fan in there that sounds like a lawnmower and moves too slowly to get any cooling done. the Nine Hundred has excellent cooling, and even if it didn't have the cooling, it is very open and vented, while my current system only has a tiny vent at the back.

Thanks for your input to the people who understood the thread.

THREAD CLOSED.

(Very stressed out right now if you can't see. Sorry).

myst1k · Mar 16, 2007, 10:51 PM // 22:51

guru3d.com go there and check stuff out and get some ideas, go check forums, check people like you and the best you can do is get the most informations before building a rig, thats what i do before i build one, check benchmarcks, tests and contact people who have almost the same parts as i want. just get to know what you want and what your doing, the final decision should come from you not from someone else. good luck building a system and please don't stress yourself, i love building rigs and i enjoy my time assembling the parts, real fun

Mercyful Fate · Mar 17, 2007, 08:51 AM // 08:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dahl

Nevermind what I had in before, I did some research. If I'm correct, then:

ati x1950 is in the same league as the geforce 7900 (except that the ati was rated higher) while the geforce 8800 is actually next generation. For instance ati x1950 = playstation 2 while geforce 8800 = xbox 360.

Am I right?

Also, the x1950 is only $200 while the 8800 is $600, and I'm definately not willing to spend $600 on a new card.

I just bought a nVidia GeForce 8800GTS the other day and it was $375, and yes it was a 640MB card.

For cost reasons, go with the GTS instead of the GTX version. And of course stick with the 640MB vs the 320MB.

I am a huge ATI fan, as well as an avid Vista Hater. So originally I was going to go with a Radeon x1950xtx 512mb GPU but decided "if a new Elder Scrolls comes out, for Christ's sake, I better at least be DX10 ready, then I'll just have to cry at the thought of buying Vista..." since apparently DX10 is Vista only. For this reason, I opted to go with the GeForce 8800GTS so that I wouldn't be buying a new OS AND a new Card to replace an already new card.

And yes, the Radeon x1950xtx is in the same tier as the GeForce 7950... the 8800 is the next tier up from nVidia and ATI has yet to release something on that tier.

-MF